Cheap alternatives to overpriced hydroponic nutrients

[organicness]

Yea, me too. The only thing I can think of is that it's sitting stagnant and getting circulated in any way. I'm going to try and put a pump in there to give some movement and let a fresh rez sit for a week and see if that does anything. I'll keep ya posted.

 

[ttystikk]

Yea, me too. The only thing I can think of is that it's sitting stagnant and getting circulated in any way. I'm going to try and put a pump in there to give some movement and let a fresh rez sit for a week and see if that does anything. I'll keep ya posted.

Thanks, I will be interested in hearing anything you find out.

 

[SmokinDogCujo]

...

Also, when one mixes a reservoir of standing solution, is fallout more likely? I've had a bucket of nutrient solution sitting around for longer than usual (probably 5-6 days) and there's a bunch of brown on the bottom now. There's no water movement or aeration at all in this bucket. Just some nute soup.

I get the same thing using Jacks! I use white 5 gallon buckets for smaller plants and notice the "sediment" after about 6 days. I use an air stone with an Eco Plus 1 air pump, so I don't think it makes a difference whether it aerated or not. I keep a recirculating pump in my big rez (flower room), but can't tell if there is any sediment due to the rez color (black garbage can :D ).

I rinse them both out before a new batch as well.

I freaked out the first time I noticed it and tossed out the nutes and made more. Same thing within 6-7 days. The pH remained stable and the EC was same, so I continued using them. No deficiencies on any plants. So I said f**k it, it ain't broke, don't try and fix it!

 

[organicness]

lol! Yea, the EC stayed the same on mine, too. No idea what's causing it, but thanks for letting me know it's probably not the need for circulation. Hmmm... Mine are in white plastic Brute 32 gallon barrels.

 

[ttystikk]

I never noticed any sediment buildup, but I think it may have to do with the fact that I ran a big RDWC with almost 100 gallon capacity, and don't put nutes in my res water at all. Because the water is constantly moving around, it never developed any sediment.

Now, with chow mix (see Dankworth's 'hater' buckets for deets) and dtw, I'm obviously going to be mixing my nutes into a big res and having the water sit for a few days. We'll see if I develop the same thing. It won't be easy for me to spot though- my res. is a 55 gallon drum with a light tan ceramic coating inside to make it food grade; it originally was full of honey. The sediment might be hard to spot thru a 3" hole against a light colored coating.

 

[Capulator]

From JR Peters on the phone this morning... they're going to be releasing a HydroHerb Flowering formula later this summer. :)

Also, when one mixes a reservoir of standing solution, is fallout more likely? I've had a bucket of nutrient solution sitting around for longer than usual (probably 5-6 days) and there's a bunch of brown on the bottom now. There's no water movement or aeration at all in this bucket. Just some nute soup.

I would guess if its brown it may be the iron settling... but that is a wild guess. The only sediment I have ever noticed is a few grains from the jacks hydro that will never quite dissolve.

 

[Capulator]

I prefer a circulation pump in the rez. IME they work better than airstones.

I prefer an oversized pump and a bleed valve to stir the water when either the drippers go on or the ebb an dflow goes on or whatever goes on to water your plants. One less pump in the res.

I stopped using airstones in the res about a year ago. They are pointless to me.

 

[organicness]

I would guess if its brown it may be the iron settling... but that is a wild guess. The only sediment I have ever noticed is a few grains from the jacks hydro that will never quite dissolve.

So I did a little more research into it and one of my plants definitely looks like it's deficient in iron. It's my last DWC plant that I've got running. Started phasing out the DWC 6 weeks ago. Everything else is in promix now.

So, it totally could be iron falling out, but not sure why. Thanks for the heads up on that, cap.

 

[ttystikk]

So I did a little more research into it and one of my plants definitely looks like it's deficient in iron. It's my last DWC plant that I've got running. Started phasing out the DWC 6 weeks ago. Everything else is in promix now.

So, it totally could be iron falling out, but not sure why. Thanks for the heads up on that, cap.

iron could be dropping out due to a change in pH, all depending on how it's chelated.

 

[organicness]

iron could be dropping out due to a change in pH, all depending on how it's chelated.

Right, I had thought about that. My water is right around 7 and when I add the the nutrients, it brings it down to around 4.8 and I have to use pH up to bring it up to 5.4. I'm never near 8.0 with the nutrient solution.

Could there be a reaction with the pH up maybe? I'd been using EJ Natural Up 'cause I bought a bunch when I first started last year. I wonder if that's adding too much P and causing a fallout. I'll mix a batch with GH pHup (might be different... I know it's also a P derived product) and see if it happens.

 

[Capulator]

Here's what the bottom of my bucket looks like after 12 days. it's definitely brown. This is with RO water and adding nutes just as one is supposed to.

View attachment 227341

Why don't you send that to JR peters? They are super helpful.

 

[organicness]

Good call, I'll drop them a note... & delete that post.

 

[mountain]

Silicon

Can someone with a better understanding help walk through making a direct replacement for Protekt out of agsil 16? Same level of Si, even if ratio/level of K is different?

Agsil 16 : http://customhydronutrients.com/zen...age=product_info&cPath=1_46_37&products_id=68

Protekt: http://www.tigerhydro.com/tek-032.html

Thanks!

 

[Quantrill]

52.8 X ? = 7.8 X 1

?= 0.1477

14.77 grams of 52.8% AgSil in one liter final volume gives you a solution with 7.8% SiO2

 

[Capulator]

52.8 X ? = 7.8 X 1

?= 0.1477

14.77 grams of 52.8% AgSil in one liter final volume gives you a solution with 7.8% SiO2

how do I achieve 100ppm of Si like YS does?

 

[El Cerebro]

^

.7 grams in one gallon of water yeilds 98ppm SiO2 or 46ppm Si, and 49ppm K​

 

[mountain]

Thanks!

Ok, the Agsil16h label says:

This is a 1.6 weight ratio hydrous potassium silicate powder with 32% K20 and 52.8% SiO2 and 14.8% H2O.​

.7 grams in one gallon of water yeilds 98ppm SiO2 or 46ppm Si, and 49ppm K.​

​

Cap, maybe this helps answer your question?​

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And the Protekt label says:​

Product Analysis: 3.7%* potassium (K2O), 7.8% Silicon (SIO2) [dont know what the asterisk after the potassium is about]​

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The same site as above also says (if they have their math correct):​

​

Dyna-Gro Pro-Tekt is a concentrated solution of Potassium Silicate. With 3% K2O and 7.8% SiO2. One mL per gallon yields 8ppm Potassium and 21ppm SiO2.​

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[thats the vendors math, not the manufacturer AFAIK, may need to be checked)​

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​

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With 4.92892 ml = teaspoon, the recommended 1/2 tsp/gal of protect is 4.92892 X .5 X 21 = 51.75 ppm of SiO2 with the recommended amount.​

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So looks would like need more like 1 tsp / protekt to get the 100 ppm of Si that you are talking about, Cap. You use that much?​

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OK,​

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So if you dont want to make a concentrate like protekt that gets diluted, sounds like you can add 0.35 grams of Agsil16H per gallon to get the same amount of SiO2 as adding 1/2 tsp of Protekt... Does that sound correct?​

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But, more interested in the concentrate for a direct Protekt replacement... ​

​

​

52.8 X ? = 7.8 X 1

?= 0.1477

14.77 grams of 52.8% AgSil in one liter final volume gives you a solution with 7.8% SiO2

Quantrill - just getting the hang of all of this. You add the 14.77 grams to a liter because grams per liter IS ppm, correct?​

​

Based on what you wrote, there are 3.78541 liters in a gallon, so 14.77 grams of Agsil16 X 3.78541 = 55.91 grams per gallon for 7.8% SiO2? So thats 8.1 gallons of Protekt per LB of Agsil16H?​

 

[Quantrill]

YS was using it at 100ppm SiO2. which is 47ppm Si.

Quantrill - just getting the hang of all of this. You add the 14.77 grams to a liter because grams per liter IS ppm, correct?

mg/L =ppm

but basicly, Yes you have the right idea.

[QUOTEBased on what you wrote, there are 3.78541 liters in a gallon, so 14.77 grams of Agsil16 X 3.78541 = 55.91 grams per gallon for 7.8% SiO2? So thats 8.1 gallons of Protekt per LB of Agsil16H?][/QUOTE]

Yes.
here are a couple useful calculators:
http://www.lenntech.com/calculators/molecular/molecular-weight-calculator.htm

http://endmemo.com/bio/dilution.php



and you should always double check my math.

 

[El Cerebro]

or where i come from, that's $12 vs $469.80 (40% less for gals instead of qts). hard to believe we ever bought protekt.

 

[mountain]

Confused...

Where is this math getting off track?

Agsil16h label says:
This is a 1.6 weight ratio hydrous potassium silicate powder with 32% K20 and 52.8% SiO2 and 14.8% H2O.
.7 grams in one gallon of water yeilds 98ppm SiO2 or 46ppm Si, and 49ppm K.
And the Protekt label says:
Product Analysis: 3.7%* potassium (K2O), 7.8% Silicon (SIO2) [dont know what the asterisk after the potassium is about]
The same site as above also says (if they have their math correct):
Dyna-Gro Pro-Tekt is a concentrated solution of Potassium Silicate. With 3% K2O and 7.8% SiO2. One mL per gallon yields 8ppm Potassium and 21ppm SiO2.

With 4.92892 ml = teaspoon, 1 tsp Pro-Tekt=103ppm SiO2

So, .7 grams/gal of agsil (98ppmSi02) is about the same as 1tsp/gal of ProTekt (103ppm SiO2)

Google says there are 768 tsp in a gallon.

If each tsp contains .7 grams agsil, thats 0.7x768=536 grams

Thats a VERY different number than 55.91 grams per gallon for 7.8% SiO2... off by about a decimal point.

Where is this going wrong?