Clone issues

[Tony69]

We are starting our clones in 4 x 4 rockwool cubes with a center plug. After taking the cuttings, dipping them into a gel solution, installing them into the plug and then putting the plug into the cubes. The new cuttings have drooped over. Is this normal? All the cubes were ph balanced and moist according to the instructions from Grodan. What are your thoughts?

 

[Inhale]

Plants without a root system cannot regain the water they transpire. Clone in high humidity or under a propagation dome and your plants will be fine.

You may be able to recover, and you might not... Unfortunately, once you let them lose too much moisture they might have a hard time recovering from dead tissue, and you may notice very slow growth.

You might consider re-cloning, this way you can start with a healthy clone from start.

 

[Dr. Detroit]

I like to make my cut under water to lessen the chance of air pockets in the capillaries. Humidity near 100% and a temperature around 80f would be beneficial also. Always harvest from a healthy mother.

Did you soak your cubes in a 5.5 pH water solution beforehand?

 

[Tony69]

Thanks for all your input, I soaked the Grodan cubes in ph adjusted water that was at 5.8. The girls are looking better today. They are not standing tall but are starting to stand up. I misted them with R.O water today.

Tony

 

[crom]

A lot of times clones droop,different than wilting, and regain their rigidity with in a few hours to a day. Personally I hate RW. I don't understand a product that I have to "adjust" prior to being able to use it for what it was designed for. That said I would recommend using a humidity dome like others are saying. The only time I say to not use the dome is in an aeroponic cloner such as an EZ Cloner. Remember that if you cut your large fans in half they will transpire less moisture. Misting them with PHed RO H20 or tap H2O is fine. I used to spray the inside of the dome a bunch before putting it back on the tray. Another point I'd keep in mind is RW seems to hold a grip of water. Don't over water or you won't get roots at all, just a mushy rotted stem. After you get your roots showing through the cube you can take your dome off and discontinue misting if you choose. Remember no nutes at this point, just PHed H2O. Maybe a drop of Superthrive and 3ml 29% H2O2 per gallon. Maybe you should try using just the plug and when you get a few roots popping out the plug transplant to the cube. Otherwise you will be waiting awhile to see if your cuts are rooted, or just maintaining life.I included a picture of cuts I took yesterday, Note the vigor! Hope this helps. If you have any questions I can help with hit me up. Best of luck.

Cheers,
Crom

 

[Tony69]

Thanks Crombien, I decided to order an Ezcloner after seeing how well cuttings seem to respond to this system. I'm hoping to get the roots started and then install them into the Rockwool. Let them grow a few more roots and then send them into the Under current system.
Any tips on the Ezcloner?

Thanks again, Tony

 

[crom]

Best tip is to clean that thing well between runs. I use hot water from the tap, 5 Gallons H2O/15ml 29% H2O2/5ml part A, 5ml part B Ona Bleach(food grade bleach that won't leave a residue). I run the whole set up like this over night to soak the entire inside well. I then dump the water the next day and rinse the rez. Add 5 Gallons for the 30 site and I add 15ml 29% H2O2 and 5 drops of SuperThrive for good measure. Keep your timer on 60 seconds on/3 minutes off unless a chiller will be used or a cold ACed room. Keep your cloner water temps in the 65s if possible. You can freeze mini water/Gatorade bottles with water in them to use them as big ice cubes on a hot day. One thing I did that I am glad I did was to put a $2 stick on thermometer from the pet store on the outside side of the cloner so I can check the water temp without disturbing the clones environment. After my roots are touching the water I take them and trim the roots to fit into my 4" pots of Sunshine Advanced Mix #4. I don't notice issues with the clones after I trim the roots either. If you are planning to go into RW I would make sure you keep an eye on the roots and get them in there before the roots are too big. Another thing some do is use Roots Excell/Power Clone/Silica after roots pop. I don't give any Great White till they are in the coco mix getting watered in. One side note that I have observed and read about when it comes to aero cloners is that if you let the roots get too developed they get "lazy" and don't really seem to have the same holding grip on the medium after you put them into coco/soil. If you are going into net pots with LECA/bare root aeroponics/DWC/UC or something similar where your roots will hang in or above water you won't have to worry about this.

Best of luck with your cloner. Be patient as they can be finicky and need to be dialed in. This info just happens to work for me. Try different things if you need to.

Cheers,
Crom

 

[Inhale]

In my opinion, rockwool is still great. I had many failures with it as well. What I can suggest is ignoring what you've learned previously about it. Don't follow the labels instructions. I have used untreated rockwool and treated rockwool. The untreated rockwool caused a lot of burns.

Here are the steps I would take to get 95-100% success rate with rockwool:

1. Do PH adjust to 5.3-5.7

2. Optionally add super thrive and rooting hormones to the water

3. Optionally use rooting hormones... they do help get thicker roots to form.

4. Soak rockwool for 10 minutes max. Make sure it is even. Let all excess water run off. No water should drip from the trays. The netted trays are awesome for this. Just dunk them into the water.

* DO NOT CUT THE LEAVES
The transpiration is what keeps the clones environment humid.

* DO NOT MIST
Misting will cause droplets to form on leaves and stagnant water is not our friend.

5. Use a humidity dome to keep humidity at 95-100% until roots start to form. Then start opening the vents.



I use 1.75" cubes and transplant later, although bigger cubes are easier to work with. Do not over pack your trays, you want some airflow to prevent mold and water droplets sitting.


Daily dump out any excess water that forms on the lid. Rockwool shouldnt be saturated. It should have a light frost look over it from the humidity and should still be semi-light colored. A bit more moisture than that of a rung out spung or a towel once you've dried off your body from a shower. Just make sure to monitor it so that no cubes get too dry either.

 

[AliasAO]

In my opinion, rockwool is still great. I had many failures with it as well. What I can suggest is ignoring what you've learned previously about it. Don't follow the labels instructions. I have used untreated rockwool and treated rockwool. The untreated rockwool caused a lot of burns.

Here are the steps I would take to get 95-100% success rate with rockwool:

1. Do PH adjust to 5.3-5.7

2. Optionally add super thrive and rooting hormones to the water

3. Optionally use rooting hormones... they do help get thicker roots to form.

4. Soak rockwool for 10 minutes max. Make sure it is even. Let all excess water run off. No water should drip from the trays. The netted trays are awesome for this. Just dunk them into the water.

* DO NOT CUT THE LEAVES
The transpiration is what keeps the clones environment humid.

* DO NOT MIST
Misting will cause droplets to form on leaves and stagnant water is not our friend.

5. Use a humidity dome to keep humidity at 95-100% until roots start to form. Then start opening the vents.



I use 1.75" cubes and transplant later, although bigger cubes are easier to work with. Do not over pack your trays, you want some airflow to prevent mold and water droplets sitting.


Daily dump out any excess water that forms on the lid. Rockwool shouldnt be saturated. It should have a light frost look over it from the humidity and should still be semi-light colored. A bit more moisture than that of a rung out spung or a towel once you've dried off your body from a shower. Just make sure to monitor it so that no cubes get too dry either.

How much super thrive do you use per gallon of water?

And what specific rooting hormones do you use in your water and how much do you use per gallon of water?

Thanx

--AO