Co2 By Fermentation

  • Thread starter Glas Plandai
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Glas Plandai

Glas Plandai

59
18
Its a long read and contains a lot of detail on to how you can use Sugars and yeast to produce CO2 for your grow room. If you want to learn take the time to read and understand what I am saying. As always I source information from other places and apply them in my own grow before I write about them. Not everything I write is my own work or wording. I use a lot of copy paste for information. Since this is not college I see not need to reference unless needed.

If you just want to mix and go the directions are below but please if you fail before you ask question read the entire post and I assure you will likely find out what went wrong. There are many variables at play here so some fine tuning may be require for your own preference of everything from yeast to mixture and tank size. Consider these number a baseline that needs adjusting. Try our the mix and times while monitoring with a CO2 PPM meter and make adjustments to suit your needs.

Directions: (For 512cu.ft Room) (20 Gallon holding Tank)

(NOTE: some of the numbers are rounded for ease of mixing.)

1) Kick start the yeast by heating up 2cups of water and stir in ½ cup sugar until it is dissolved completely.

2) Let it cool back to 80-90 degrees and place it in a sterilized glass dish. Then add about 1TBS of yeast. Cover with plastic wrap and place it in a warm place that is 80-90f until it starts to foam and you can see bubbles forming on the inside of the dish. Be sure your container is not too small or it will over flow and make a mess. This can take from a few hours to a few days depending on the yeast used.

3) While your waiting for the Kick starter to begin fermenting prepare your main tank by dissolving 24lbs of sugar into 10 gallons of water. You can heat a few gallons on the stove to help devolve the sugar but you MUST let it cool to 80-90f before adding the kick start batch or you will kill the yeast.

4) Recharge Weekly with 3lbs of sugar devolved into 1 gallon of water @ 80f.

Before we Begin
Consider that CO2 enrichment will only help healthy plants grow faster and bigger. Adding CO2 to a poor grow can actually make things worse. If you have droopy plants and messed up leaves you showing neut issues you have other things to worry about that will only get worse when you add CO2 because the plant will photosynthesis faster only intensifying the problems.

Before you consider enrichment you should be sure you can get the air from the bottom of the room back to the top as CO2 will settle to the floor. A $30 6in air duct booster fan from the home improvement store will do the trick. Also NO VENTING or your just wasting time and money. The better sealed your room the better this will work. If you have to you could use a fan on the floor pointing up. Also Room temp should be increased to 30-32c (85-90F)
fan.jpg


About CO2 Enrichment

Typical ambient air will be around 300-400ppm and is just fine for cannabis growth if you have a good exchange of fresh air into your grow area. You should reach for about 100% air exchange every 1-5 minutes. If you have an open flame gas / propane unvented heater or stove when your heat is running or you are cooking your CO2 may spike. Depending on how ventilated your house is you will sometimes see as much as 1000ppm CO2 concentration in a home. Prior to going off grid all electric I had open flame ceramic Propane wall heaters and stove. On a cold winter day after cooking dinner with all 6 kids the wife and 2 cats eating. My small 1200sq.ft double wide would spike to 900ppm for several hours. You can monitor your CO2 for around $100 with a desktop meter like this one.
Desktop CO2 meter
co2metter.jpg


CO2 enrichment at or around 1300ppm will increase growth of cannabis by around 100%. Enrichment however is not linear. Meaning that an increase from 300ppm to 1000ppm gains more results per ppm than say 1300ppm to 1500ppm. At 1500ppm to 1800ppm the benefits will start to decline and over 1800ppm will become toxic for your plants. Ideally you want to shoot for 1000-1300ppm. If you get down to the gram and a perfectly identical grow each time then you may see that small increase and over time a few grams per flower can result in what could have been a new car. Here is a nice chart that represents that.

chart.jpg

Many people think more is better but with CO2 there is a ceiling. Too much enrichment can be toxic to plants and unhealthy for anyone in the room. This is well documented and I personally ran two identical small grow tents with one @ 1300ppm and the other 2000ppm and the growth stunting was noticeable.

Once you are sealed and have good air flow from the floor to the ceiling you now need to produce CO2 at least to 300ppm+ to keep the plants growing. There are many systems but here I will only be covering the Sugar Yeast Fermentation method. I have read many of post with people saying this does not work. And I find many times it is because they are trying to boost CO2 to 1200ppm with a gallon jug for a 512 SqFt room or a 12oz bottle for a grow tent. Added to the complication they offer some mixture or ratio that just does not produce a good yield of CO2 or a good environment for long enough for the yeast to thrive and have a noticeable impact.

About Yeast
There are different kinds of yeast that preform differently and are able to survive the toxic(to them) swill they produce longer. Like most living things yeast once activated needs food oxygen and nutrients to grow and reproduce. As it consumes the nutrients and sugars it will produce what I like to call yeast farts(CO2) and yeast piss(ethyl alcohol). A pound of sugar will break down(ferment) into ~½ pound of ethyl alcohol and ~½ pound CO2 gas. If the alcohol content gets too high (~10-15% for common bakers yeast from grocery store). The yeast will poison itself and die. Too much sugar and you can stunt the production of yeast and too much yeast will make lots of CO2 but taper off fast and not last long.

Show me the numbers

First lets take a look @ a Typical grow area that is easily reduced for smaller operations.

Say 512 cu.ft. Will work out to the following.
8x8x8=512cu.ft. (100%)
4x8x8=256cu.ft (50%)
4x4x8= 128cu.ft. (25%)
2x4x8= 64cu.ft. (12.5%)
I used these numbers because it will be easy to reduce 512 to smaller numbers if your room is not 512cu.ft. So lets say we do all the calculations for 512cu.ft but your grow area is 1.5x6x7= 63cu.ft. Just take any value discussed hereafter and multiply it by 0.125 and you will have your value.

So our example grow room is 8x8x8 divided in ½ for a 4x4x8 veg area and a 4x4x8 flower area BUT connected together via ducting and blower fans to circulate the air from the bottom of the veg room to the top of the flower room and a 2nd fan from the bottom flower room to the top of the veg room. I'll not get into room design CO2 sinks so you need to move it up from one side of the room to the middle top of the other side and let it fall down threw you canopy.

We need to fill the room to 1000-1300ppm. To do this we have to consider yeast fermentation speed vs volume. Not going to get into why the number are what they are because this is already a long post but we need need

TIME = Every 4 hours 512cu.ft x 0.0013 = 0.66cu.ft.
Volume = 3% the volume of our room in gallons 512cu.ft x .03 = 15.36 gallons of water

So any container about the right size will do. I use a 20 gallon fish tank because its easy to clean glass and seal the top of the tank with a piece of ¼in Plexiglas and some aluminum duct tape.

So onto it.....
We need for six weeks of fermentation We figured out above that we need 0.66cu.ft of CO2 every 4 hours.
2lbs of sugar makes 1lb of CO2
1Lb of fCO2 works out to 8.7cu.ft
So we need 0.1518 lbs of sugar to make 0.66cu.ft of CO2 every 4 hours

How did I get that?
0.66cu.ft is 7.59% of 8.7cu.ft ---->>0.1518lbs is 7.59% of 2lbs

4hours x 6 = 24hours
So we need 0.1518lbs x 6 = 0.9108lbs of sugar per day.
So there are 42 days in 6weeks that means 0.9108lbs x 42= 38.2536lbs of sugar total.

But lets not go dumping in all 38.2536lbs in @ once. We need to keep it going for 6 weeks and grocery store bakers yeast will typically only ferment for about 7-10 days until it runs out of food or poisons itself with the alcohol.

So we need to get some yeast kick started. The amount you start with will be slightly different depending on the yeast you use. The only way to know is to let it run the 1st week and watch it like a hawk. If you see production slowing way down before the week is over you started with too much or too little yeast.

If the mix stops bubbling and it is sweet tasting then there was not enough yeast to start you should kick start with more yeast.

If the mix stops bubbling and it smells of boose and taste like cheap gas station wine. You started with too much yeast.


Tips:

Heat kills Yeast and cold will stunt production. So you want to keep your yeast @ 80-90f. I use a 20 gallon fish tank so its easy for me to slap on a fish tank heater set @ 85f. If you have proper Heating/cooling this is not needed. With CO2 you can and should keep your room in the mid 80's

Putting a fish tank bubbler in the weekly add gallon for a few hours help add oxygen to the mix and will help the yeast preform better. You can also run a bubbler from outside your grow room for an hour after lights off in your main tank to add oxygen as plants will not use the CO2 @ night and you will have 4-6 hours to make up for any CO2 lost from injecting air into the mixture.

Seal up your room as best you can. And purge @ lights off. Plants will not use the CO2 in the dark. So I have a Fish tank bubbler, 2x sealed 6in air tight louver, and a 6in in duct fan that purge my room @ lights off for 1 hour. Lights Off -->bubbler in fermentation tank on--->intake/exhaust louver open-->exhaust fan on. This helps evacuate any stagnant air. It cost me extra for the air tight louvers and an additional carbon filter for oder control (I have another one inside the room on 24/7 scrub). But it makes me feel better knowing my plants do not live in a tomb.


Dr. Plandai's swill.....
Dumping 16 gallons of fermented sugar swill every 6 weeks is a waist. So I have my own tweaked recipe for my tank. When mixing my sugar water I add in a can of concentrated fruit juice cocktail. NOT the 100% juice the kind with high fructose corn syrup or sugar in it and a Centrum multi vitamin. The extra complex sugar really helps the yeast and the vitamin adds B12 and other great things that help supercharge the yeast. You can buy yeats neutriant at any brew store that will do the same thing. Instead of dumping it I distill it to 150 proof and jar it in pint jars. My friends sure love it and the change of flavor every 6 weeks yields me about 12-24 pints that they love to trade me for sugar and yeast. When I was running CO2 bottles NO ONE would trade my empty bottle for anything but a $20 bill to refill it yet now I have more sugar and some of the best wine and beer yeast I ever used.
 
Glas Plandai

Glas Plandai

59
18
Fuck me son,I'm already pushing my look growing herb in the uk.(a big no no)I'll be alright running moonshine to wash it down bro..haha.
The Shine helps get more Bud and it goes for $20-40USD a pint if you do it up right. LOL just think of it like this if you are pressing you luck growing herb whats one more charge if you get caught lol :-P
 
Tejashidrow

Tejashidrow

189
43
Hey
Is the made co2 going into the area 24-7 or is there a timer/valve that stops co2 dureing dark cycle??
Thanks
 
ArcticOrange

ArcticOrange

2,518
263
Its a long read and contains a lot of detail on to how you can use Sugars and yeast to produce CO2 for your grow room. If you want to learn take the time to read and understand what I am saying. As always I source information from other places and apply them in my own grow before I write about them. Not everything I write is my own work or wording. I use a lot of copy paste for information. Since this is not college I see not need to reference unless needed.

If you just want to mix and go the directions are below but please if you fail before you ask question read the entire post and I assure you will likely find out what went wrong. There are many variables at play here so some fine tuning may be require for your own preference of everything from yeast to mixture and tank size. Consider these number a baseline that needs adjusting. Try our the mix and times while monitoring with a CO2 PPM meter and make adjustments to suit your needs.

Directions: (For 512cu.ft Room) (20 Gallon holding Tank)

(NOTE: some of the numbers are rounded for ease of mixing.)

1) Kick start the yeast by heating up 2cups of water and stir in ½ cup sugar until it is dissolved completely.

2) Let it cool back to 80-90 degrees and place it in a sterilized glass dish. Then add about 1TBS of yeast. Cover with plastic wrap and place it in a warm place that is 80-90f until it starts to foam and you can see bubbles forming on the inside of the dish. Be sure your container is not too small or it will over flow and make a mess. This can take from a few hours to a few days depending on the yeast used.

3) While your waiting for the Kick starter to begin fermenting prepare your main tank by dissolving 24lbs of sugar into 10 gallons of water. You can heat a few gallons on the stove to help devolve the sugar but you MUST let it cool to 80-90f before adding the kick start batch or you will kill the yeast.

4) Recharge Weekly with 3lbs of sugar devolved into 1 gallon of water @ 80f.

Before we Begin
Consider that CO2 enrichment will only help healthy plants grow faster and bigger. Adding CO2 to a poor grow can actually make things worse. If you have droopy plants and messed up leaves you showing neut issues you have other things to worry about that will only get worse when you add CO2 because the plant will photosynthesis faster only intensifying the problems.

Before you consider enrichment you should be sure you can get the air from the bottom of the room back to the top as CO2 will settle to the floor. A $30 6in air duct booster fan from the home improvement store will do the trick. Also NO VENTING or your just wasting time and money. The better sealed your room the better this will work. If you have to you could use a fan on the floor pointing up. Also Room temp should be increased to 30-32c (85-90F)
View attachment 579211

About CO2 Enrichment

Typical ambient air will be around 300-400ppm and is just fine for cannabis growth if you have a good exchange of fresh air into your grow area. You should reach for about 100% air exchange every 1-5 minutes. If you have an open flame gas / propane unvented heater or stove when your heat is running or you are cooking your CO2 may spike. Depending on how ventilated your house is you will sometimes see as much as 1000ppm CO2 concentration in a home. Prior to going off grid all electric I had open flame ceramic Propane wall heaters and stove. On a cold winter day after cooking dinner with all 6 kids the wife and 2 cats eating. My small 1200sq.ft double wide would spike to 900ppm for several hours. You can monitor your CO2 for around $100 with a desktop meter like this one.
Desktop CO2 meter
View attachment 579213

CO2 enrichment at or around 1300ppm will increase growth of cannabis by around 100%. Enrichment however is not linear. Meaning that an increase from 300ppm to 1000ppm gains more results per ppm than say 1300ppm to 1500ppm. At 1500ppm to 1800ppm the benefits will start to decline and over 1800ppm will become toxic for your plants. Ideally you want to shoot for 1000-1300ppm. If you get down to the gram and a perfectly identical grow each time then you may see that small increase and over time a few grams per flower can result in what could have been a new car. Here is a nice chart that represents that.

View attachment 579212
Many people think more is better but with CO2 there is a ceiling. Too much enrichment can be toxic to plants and unhealthy for anyone in the room. This is well documented and I personally ran two identical small grow tents with one @ 1300ppm and the other 2000ppm and the growth stunting was noticeable.

Once you are sealed and have good air flow from the floor to the ceiling you now need to produce CO2 at least to 300ppm+ to keep the plants growing. There are many systems but here I will only be covering the Sugar Yeast Fermentation method. I have read many of post with people saying this does not work. And I find many times it is because they are trying to boost CO2 to 1200ppm with a gallon jug for a 512 SqFt room or a 12oz bottle for a grow tent. Added to the complication they offer some mixture or ratio that just does not produce a good yield of CO2 or a good environment for long enough for the yeast to thrive and have a noticeable impact.

About Yeast
There are different kinds of yeast that preform differently and are able to survive the toxic(to them) swill they produce longer. Like most living things yeast once activated needs food oxygen and nutrients to grow and reproduce. As it consumes the nutrients and sugars it will produce what I like to call yeast farts(CO2) and yeast piss(ethyl alcohol). A pound of sugar will break down(ferment) into ~½ pound of ethyl alcohol and ~½ pound CO2 gas. If the alcohol content gets too high (~10-15% for common bakers yeast from grocery store). The yeast will poison itself and die. Too much sugar and you can stunt the production of yeast and too much yeast will make lots of CO2 but taper off fast and not last long.

Show me the numbers

First lets take a look @ a Typical grow area that is easily reduced for smaller operations.

Say 512 cu.ft. Will work out to the following.
8x8x8=512cu.ft. (100%)
4x8x8=256cu.ft (50%)
4x4x8= 128cu.ft. (25%)
2x4x8= 64cu.ft. (12.5%)
I used these numbers because it will be easy to reduce 512 to smaller numbers if your room is not 512cu.ft. So lets say we do all the calculations for 512cu.ft but your grow area is 1.5x6x7= 63cu.ft. Just take any value discussed hereafter and multiply it by 0.125 and you will have your value.

So our example grow room is 8x8x8 divided in ½ for a 4x4x8 veg area and a 4x4x8 flower area BUT connected together via ducting and blower fans to circulate the air from the bottom of the veg room to the top of the flower room and a 2nd fan from the bottom flower room to the top of the veg room. I'll not get into room design CO2 sinks so you need to move it up from one side of the room to the middle top of the other side and let it fall down threw you canopy.

We need to fill the room to 1000-1300ppm. To do this we have to consider yeast fermentation speed vs volume. Not going to get into why the number are what they are because this is already a long post but we need need

TIME = Every 4 hours 512cu.ft x 0.0013 = 0.66cu.ft.
Volume = 3% the volume of our room in gallons 512cu.ft x .03 = 15.36 gallons of water

So any container about the right size will do. I use a 20 gallon fish tank because its easy to clean glass and seal the top of the tank with a piece of ¼in Plexiglas and some aluminum duct tape.

So onto it.....
We need for six weeks of fermentation We figured out above that we need 0.66cu.ft of CO2 every 4 hours.
2lbs of sugar makes 1lb of CO2
1Lb of fCO2 works out to 8.7cu.ft
So we need 0.1518 lbs of sugar to make 0.66cu.ft of CO2 every 4 hours

How did I get that?
0.66cu.ft is 7.59% of 8.7cu.ft ---->>0.1518lbs is 7.59% of 2lbs

4hours x 6 = 24hours
So we need 0.1518lbs x 6 = 0.9108lbs of sugar per day.
So there are 42 days in 6weeks that means 0.9108lbs x 42= 38.2536lbs of sugar total.

But lets not go dumping in all 38.2536lbs in @ once. We need to keep it going for 6 weeks and grocery store bakers yeast will typically only ferment for about 7-10 days until it runs out of food or poisons itself with the alcohol.

So we need to get some yeast kick started. The amount you start with will be slightly different depending on the yeast you use. The only way to know is to let it run the 1st week and watch it like a hawk. If you see production slowing way down before the week is over you started with too much or too little yeast.

If the mix stops bubbling and it is sweet tasting then there was not enough yeast to start you should kick start with more yeast.

If the mix stops bubbling and it smells of boose and taste like cheap gas station wine. You started with too much yeast.


Tips:

Heat kills Yeast and cold will stunt production. So you want to keep your yeast @ 80-90f. I use a 20 gallon fish tank so its easy for me to slap on a fish tank heater set @ 85f. If you have proper Heating/cooling this is not needed. With CO2 you can and should keep your room in the mid 80's

Putting a fish tank bubbler in the weekly add gallon for a few hours help add oxygen to the mix and will help the yeast preform better. You can also run a bubbler from outside your grow room for an hour after lights off in your main tank to add oxygen as plants will not use the CO2 @ night and you will have 4-6 hours to make up for any CO2 lost from injecting air into the mixture.

Seal up your room as best you can. And purge @ lights off. Plants will not use the CO2 in the dark. So I have a Fish tank bubbler, 2x sealed 6in air tight louver, and a 6in in duct fan that purge my room @ lights off for 1 hour. Lights Off -->bubbler in fermentation tank on--->intake/exhaust louver open-->exhaust fan on. This helps evacuate any stagnant air. It cost me extra for the air tight louvers and an additional carbon filter for oder control (I have another one inside the room on 24/7 scrub). But it makes me feel better knowing my plants do not live in a tomb.


Dr. Plandai's swill.....
Dumping 16 gallons of fermented sugar swill every 6 weeks is a waist. So I have my own tweaked recipe for my tank. When mixing my sugar water I add in a can of concentrated fruit juice cocktail. NOT the 100% juice the kind with high fructose corn syrup or sugar in it and a Centrum multi vitamin. The extra complex sugar really helps the yeast and the vitamin adds B12 and other great things that help supercharge the yeast. You can buy yeats neutriant at any brew store that will do the same thing. Instead of dumping it I distill it to 150 proof and jar it in pint jars. My friends sure love it and the change of flavor every 6 weeks yields me about 12-24 pints that they love to trade me for sugar and yeast. When I was running CO2 bottles NO ONE would trade my empty bottle for anything but a $20 bill to refill it yet now I have more sugar and some of the best wine and beer yeast I ever used.

Good write up, did the math on this last year myself to see how much sugar id need for a full run. Math checks out over here looking over mine with yours. Very informative 10/10 for those who are tired of being asked too many questions at the welding shop
 
Glas Plandai

Glas Plandai

59
18
Hey
Is the made co2 going into the area 24-7 or is there a timer/valve that stops co2 dureing dark cycle??
Thanks

You can't stop the yeast from doing its thing so its a 24/7 production. I have done many things over the years to make good use of the CO2 during dark times but in the end I just purge the room for an hour or 2 @ dark now and get some fresh air in and let the rest of the 4-5 hours for building back upto the 1300ppm mark
 
Tejashidrow

Tejashidrow

189
43
Thank you
I have a 22 cubic foot grow area
What formula to use to get my magic number???
Tanks
 
Glas Plandai

Glas Plandai

59
18
@Tejashidrow I did an experiment for you over night I never did such a small area. I think for your small area you are going to be best off with a 1 gallon jug. Heat water on the stove and dissolve 1lb of sugar into 3/4 gallon of water. Let it cool to 80-90f. Take 2 cups of that water and put it in a bowel with 1/8-1/4 teaspoon of yeast. once it is foamy and looking active add it back to the gallon. Check it often the first week I am guessing it will taper off around the 5-7 day mark. You can recharge it with 50 grams of sugar in 2 cups of water or just remix a new batch the day b4 you notice the bubbles stopping. careful with the yeast in such a small container too much yeast will make it turbo and it will only last a few days. not enough and it will not produce enough CO2 fast enough the first few days to be any good. Get a meter so you know how to adjust.
It is best to use 1/4 air line fitting with air hose running out into the bottom of another container filled with water to make an air lock so you can monitor bubbling and keep air from backing into the fermentation area.
 
jammie

jammie

366
93
thanks glas. nice write up. i find that i have to go through about a thousand posts to find that one useful one. PS- the co2 meter is great find. do find its accurate??
 
Glas Plandai

Glas Plandai

59
18
thanks glas. nice write up. i find that i have to go through about a thousand posts to find that one useful one. PS- the co2 meter is great find. do find its accurate??
I found the meter to be within acceptable deviation when testing it against a certified meter that I have within 3% when I first got it and 2 years latter it is still within 4% @ 1500ppm it reads 1440. @ 300ppm it reads 285. Since enrichment is best in the 1300-1500 range I find the slight deviation to not be a major issue. Shooting for 1400 will give you a nice 100ppm buffer in both directions for meter variance. Those who will worry about the accuracy will be the ones chucking down high $ for a controller and tanks any how.

Fermentation is like chemistry once you lock in your water source, yeast type and amounts, and sugar starts and boosters. You can hit those 1300-1500 ranges with no issues. A fresh batch pushes my room to 1550(actual) and will taper down to 1100 on day 6. with a booster it will come back up to high 1400s and 5-6 days it will drop to no less than 1000. I boost on water days in the dirt room and on water change in the hydro room.

Remember with CO2 you can keep your room warmer ~90f and the plants will explode with happiness.
So you can dial back room cooling to save $$ or do like I did and ditch the glass in the sealed hoods. Remember glass + light = heat so removing the glass on a sealed hood means less heat. Being able to run in the low 90s also means you can afford to ditch the air cooled hoods.
 
jammie

jammie

366
93
i only do 1 grow a year, usually in the winter, in the basement. my lights on temp rarely exceed 75 and thats with 2- 1k hps
 
Tejashidrow

Tejashidrow

189
43
@Glas Plandai
Thanks for your help!!!
I was thinking a 1-2 gallon size and you verified my scattered thoughts.
I have been makeing wine forever
( home made wine+ home made bud =.good stuff Maynard)
I am thinking a champagne or sherry yeast due to being able withstand hi alcohol.
Not sure what to do with the swill sense I don't have a still
Hmmmm
Starting project tonight!!!
Off to order damper and co2 monitor and recirculatig fan.
One more question
Would you recommend co2 entering area at top or bottom of space??
Thanks again!!
 
Last edited:
Tejashidrow

Tejashidrow

189
43
i only do 1 grow a year, usually in the winter, in the basement. my lights on temp rarely exceed 75 and thats with 2- 1k hps
Man I wish I had the basement I had while growing up.
Constant 75 degrees year round
Where at now no one has a basement (bed rock) and its stupid hot.
Hopefully by adding co2 will make a summer grow more manageable
Pax
 
Last edited:
Glas Plandai

Glas Plandai

59
18
@Tejashidrow in my rooms the recirc. fan pulls air from the bottom of the room via a 6in duct and dumps it over my plants. A 1/4 hose runs from the fermentation jugs to the inside of the duct. Top feed is best CO2 sinks. Remember when adding CO2 you are going to see the most increase with higher room temps and surplus light. Also watch your water ppm in hydro or soil wetness in soil. They will if things are right drink WAY more
 
Glas Plandai

Glas Plandai

59
18
i only do 1 grow a year, usually in the winter, in the basement. my lights on temp rarely exceed 75 and thats with 2- 1k hps
I love my winter grows heat is never an issue @ times I even have to turn on a heater @ night. CO2 will still work @ lower temps. The added heat helps as they drink more H2O they can handle it as they do plants stuff photosynthesis wise
 
hermit186

hermit186

335
63
This is a thing I believed to be crazy stuff.
I read about moonshine which I make in 20 gal a month quantity.
No person with any smarts would think can hurt so we put the blow off our 55 gallon tanks CO2
The grew very well, was a noticeable difference and I have a hot flower room.
We were doing hand stands was looking wonderful.
Only one problem tasted like sour mash. Old sock's would be close.

My #4 grandkid comes over with 3 each 5gallon buckets with 3/8 plastic pipe sticking straight up.
Looks like big hooka without the hose.
Puts in his grow room and I am say to self not enough bang for size of room 7x7x10
Damn was I ever wrong.
He uses 4 of them now and a mix of my super brewers yeast + yeast nuts. Sugar. Last's 14 days
Can you make a mistake and produce a fountain of yeast and water foam yes, you can.
Careful with measurement's and take plastic baggie heavy thickness and duck tape over the end of pipe.
Poke a bunch of small holes and it will balloon up so you no when to shake a bit.
It requires attention but he shakes when lights come on by morning is still working a little.
Our lights run in the dark because of heat.
Put enough holes or it will put bag and tape on ceiling.
It's in expensive and yes it works.
We have a heat problem and toward the end my plants look like is just a bit to hot.
Now they look much better and finish faster bigger may be a little looks alone make it worth it to me.
Best of all don't taste like old sneakers.
If your using bakers yeast and sugar Google yeast nutrient's I have most on had but they are easy to make.
I think so much of it I run the 55 gal drums with just sugar and water and yeast.
I vent it in the dark period
I have no idea what the ppm's are and the tubs hang from ceiling at top of plant.
For the D.Y.I people I think is wonderful
 
S

Some.guy

1
1
What an awesome post! I guess I might be reawakening it...but it's just too good to pass up. Thanks for doing all the math for us.
I have a few questions...the math isn't a problem. I'm working in a 3x4x6 ~ 75ft³. So, I'll be working with 14.6% of your numbers.
1. Does fermentation container size matter? (I have some 12gal buckets that would do nicely- no chance of overflow)
2. If I keep the container in my tent, do I need to cover it (I have secure lids, I could drill)?
3. Will light affect yeast consumption / CO2 production?
4. Do I really need to cover the exhaust vents, up top, at lights on? (I'm working with autoflowers. My light cycles off then on, all while I'm away at work. Intakes at bottom can stay shut, no worries. My hopes are to run timers for exhaust and bubbler.)
5. The fruit juice *should be* with sugar or corn syrup? (I think there's a comma missing :))
6. At the end, does this produce a drinkable shine, or is there a further distilling process?

Many many thanks again!
 
DasGas420

DasGas420

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Its a long read and contains a lot of detail on to how you can use Sugars and yeast to produce CO2 for your grow room. If you want to learn take the time to read and understand what I am saying. As always I source information from other places and apply them in my own grow before I write about them. Not everything I write is my own work or wording. I use a lot of copy paste for information. Since this is not college I see not need to reference unless needed.

If you just want to mix and go the directions are below but please if you fail before you ask question read the entire post and I assure you will likely find out what went wrong. There are many variables at play here so some fine tuning may be require for your own preference of everything from yeast to mixture and tank size. Consider these number a baseline that needs adjusting. Try our the mix and times while monitoring with a CO2 PPM meter and make adjustments to suit your needs.

Directions: (For 512cu.ft Room) (20 Gallon holding Tank)

(NOTE: some of the numbers are rounded for ease of mixing.)

1) Kick start the yeast by heating up 2cups of water and stir in ½ cup sugar until it is dissolved completely.

2) Let it cool back to 80-90 degrees and place it in a sterilized glass dish. Then add about 1TBS of yeast. Cover with plastic wrap and place it in a warm place that is 80-90f until it starts to foam and you can see bubbles forming on the inside of the dish. Be sure your container is not too small or it will over flow and make a mess. This can take from a few hours to a few days depending on the yeast used.

3) While your waiting for the Kick starter to begin fermenting prepare your main tank by dissolving 24lbs of sugar into 10 gallons of water. You can heat a few gallons on the stove to help devolve the sugar but you MUST let it cool to 80-90f before adding the kick start batch or you will kill the yeast.

4) Recharge Weekly with 3lbs of sugar devolved into 1 gallon of water @ 80f.

Before we Begin
Consider that CO2 enrichment will only help healthy plants grow faster and bigger. Adding CO2 to a poor grow can actually make things worse. If you have droopy plants and messed up leaves you showing neut issues you have other things to worry about that will only get worse when you add CO2 because the plant will photosynthesis faster only intensifying the problems.

Before you consider enrichment you should be sure you can get the air from the bottom of the room back to the top as CO2 will settle to the floor. A $30 6in air duct booster fan from the home improvement store will do the trick. Also NO VENTING or your just wasting time and money. The better sealed your room the better this will work. If you have to you could use a fan on the floor pointing up. Also Room temp should be increased to 30-32c (85-90F)
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About CO2 Enrichment

Typical ambient air will be around 300-400ppm and is just fine for cannabis growth if you have a good exchange of fresh air into your grow area. You should reach for about 100% air exchange every 1-5 minutes. If you have an open flame gas / propane unvented heater or stove when your heat is running or you are cooking your CO2 may spike. Depending on how ventilated your house is you will sometimes see as much as 1000ppm CO2 concentration in a home. Prior to going off grid all electric I had open flame ceramic Propane wall heaters and stove. On a cold winter day after cooking dinner with all 6 kids the wife and 2 cats eating. My small 1200sq.ft double wide would spike to 900ppm for several hours. You can monitor your CO2 for around $100 with a desktop meter like this one.
Desktop CO2 meter
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CO2 enrichment at or around 1300ppm will increase growth of cannabis by around 100%. Enrichment however is not linear. Meaning that an increase from 300ppm to 1000ppm gains more results per ppm than say 1300ppm to 1500ppm. At 1500ppm to 1800ppm the benefits will start to decline and over 1800ppm will become toxic for your plants. Ideally you want to shoot for 1000-1300ppm. If you get down to the gram and a perfectly identical grow each time then you may see that small increase and over time a few grams per flower can result in what could have been a new car. Here is a nice chart that represents that.

View attachment 579212
Many people think more is better but with CO2 there is a ceiling. Too much enrichment can be toxic to plants and unhealthy for anyone in the room. This is well documented and I personally ran two identical small grow tents with one @ 1300ppm and the other 2000ppm and the growth stunting was noticeable.

Once you are sealed and have good air flow from the floor to the ceiling you now need to produce CO2 at least to 300ppm+ to keep the plants growing. There are many systems but here I will only be covering the Sugar Yeast Fermentation method. I have read many of post with people saying this does not work. And I find many times it is because they are trying to boost CO2 to 1200ppm with a gallon jug for a 512 SqFt room or a 12oz bottle for a grow tent. Added to the complication they offer some mixture or ratio that just does not produce a good yield of CO2 or a good environment for long enough for the yeast to thrive and have a noticeable impact.

About Yeast
There are different kinds of yeast that preform differently and are able to survive the toxic(to them) swill they produce longer. Like most living things yeast once activated needs food oxygen and nutrients to grow and reproduce. As it consumes the nutrients and sugars it will produce what I like to call yeast farts(CO2) and yeast piss(ethyl alcohol). A pound of sugar will break down(ferment) into ~½ pound of ethyl alcohol and ~½ pound CO2 gas. If the alcohol content gets too high (~10-15% for common bakers yeast from grocery store). The yeast will poison itself and die. Too much sugar and you can stunt the production of yeast and too much yeast will make lots of CO2 but taper off fast and not last long.

Show me the numbers

First lets take a look @ a Typical grow area that is easily reduced for smaller operations.

Say 512 cu.ft. Will work out to the following.
8x8x8=512cu.ft. (100%)
4x8x8=256cu.ft (50%)
4x4x8= 128cu.ft. (25%)
2x4x8= 64cu.ft. (12.5%)
I used these numbers because it will be easy to reduce 512 to smaller numbers if your room is not 512cu.ft. So lets say we do all the calculations for 512cu.ft but your grow area is 1.5x6x7= 63cu.ft. Just take any value discussed hereafter and multiply it by 0.125 and you will have your value.

So our example grow room is 8x8x8 divided in ½ for a 4x4x8 veg area and a 4x4x8 flower area BUT connected together via ducting and blower fans to circulate the air from the bottom of the veg room to the top of the flower room and a 2nd fan from the bottom flower room to the top of the veg room. I'll not get into room design CO2 sinks so you need to move it up from one side of the room to the middle top of the other side and let it fall down threw you canopy.

We need to fill the room to 1000-1300ppm. To do this we have to consider yeast fermentation speed vs volume. Not going to get into why the number are what they are because this is already a long post but we need need

TIME = Every 4 hours 512cu.ft x 0.0013 = 0.66cu.ft.
Volume = 3% the volume of our room in gallons 512cu.ft x .03 = 15.36 gallons of water

So any container about the right size will do. I use a 20 gallon fish tank because its easy to clean glass and seal the top of the tank with a piece of ¼in Plexiglas and some aluminum duct tape.

So onto it.....
We need for six weeks of fermentation We figured out above that we need 0.66cu.ft of CO2 every 4 hours.
2lbs of sugar makes 1lb of CO2
1Lb of fCO2 works out to 8.7cu.ft
So we need 0.1518 lbs of sugar to make 0.66cu.ft of CO2 every 4 hours

How did I get that?
0.66cu.ft is 7.59% of 8.7cu.ft ---->>0.1518lbs is 7.59% of 2lbs

4hours x 6 = 24hours
So we need 0.1518lbs x 6 = 0.9108lbs of sugar per day.
So there are 42 days in 6weeks that means 0.9108lbs x 42= 38.2536lbs of sugar total.

But lets not go dumping in all 38.2536lbs in @ once. We need to keep it going for 6 weeks and grocery store bakers yeast will typically only ferment for about 7-10 days until it runs out of food or poisons itself with the alcohol.

So we need to get some yeast kick started. The amount you start with will be slightly different depending on the yeast you use. The only way to know is to let it run the 1st week and watch it like a hawk. If you see production slowing way down before the week is over you started with too much or too little yeast.

If the mix stops bubbling and it is sweet tasting then there was not enough yeast to start you should kick start with more yeast.

If the mix stops bubbling and it smells of boose and taste like cheap gas station wine. You started with too much yeast.


Tips:

Heat kills Yeast and cold will stunt production. So you want to keep your yeast @ 80-90f. I use a 20 gallon fish tank so its easy for me to slap on a fish tank heater set @ 85f. If you have proper Heating/cooling this is not needed. With CO2 you can and should keep your room in the mid 80's

Putting a fish tank bubbler in the weekly add gallon for a few hours help add oxygen to the mix and will help the yeast preform better. You can also run a bubbler from outside your grow room for an hour after lights off in your main tank to add oxygen as plants will not use the CO2 @ night and you will have 4-6 hours to make up for any CO2 lost from injecting air into the mixture.

Seal up your room as best you can. And purge @ lights off. Plants will not use the CO2 in the dark. So I have a Fish tank bubbler, 2x sealed 6in air tight louver, and a 6in in duct fan that purge my room @ lights off for 1 hour. Lights Off -->bubbler in fermentation tank on--->intake/exhaust louver open-->exhaust fan on. This helps evacuate any stagnant air. It cost me extra for the air tight louvers and an additional carbon filter for oder control (I have another one inside the room on 24/7 scrub). But it makes me feel better knowing my plants do not live in a tomb.


Dr. Plandai's swill.....
Dumping 16 gallons of fermented sugar swill every 6 weeks is a waist. So I have my own tweaked recipe for my tank. When mixing my sugar water I add in a can of concentrated fruit juice cocktail. NOT the 100% juice the kind with high fructose corn syrup or sugar in it and a Centrum multi vitamin. The extra complex sugar really helps the yeast and the vitamin adds B12 and other great things that help supercharge the yeast. You can buy yeats neutriant at any brew store that will do the same thing. Instead of dumping it I distill it to 150 proof and jar it in pint jars. My friends sure love it and the change of flavor every 6 weeks yields me about 12-24 pints that they love to trade me for sugar and yeast. When I was running CO2 bottles NO ONE would trade my empty bottle for anything but a $20 bill to refill it yet now I have more sugar and some of the best wine and beer yeast I ever used.
What do you think about buying the empty "exhale bags" and filling with some sourdough starter? I know its a different yeast and bacteria, hoping I can get long term use out of it like the bakers, utilizing it for over 100yrs in SanFran LOL
 
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