Collision Earth?

[markscastle]

What`s up there? Seems crazy these days. Russia and almost SF getting hit as a football field size rock nearly hits the earth from a different direction? Do we believe what they are saying? Not!

 

[Burning Bush]

Yes,very sus.
could be the start of...Starwars!

 

[WAkuntry]

How could this possibly be suspect?

 

[squiggly]

This is only suspect to the type of person who in times long past would have believed that the sun rotated about the earth and that the earth was the center of the universe.

As was noted by many astronomers and hobbyists, the asteroid made an approach from the southern direction--whereas the meteorite made an east-west approach. There is no way they were part of the same event.

Please take a moment to be at one with the size of the universe, or to come as close to that as you are able. The size is immense and beyond anything you could possibly conceive in a tangible sense.

Even the size of our solar system is likely beyond the grasp of your mind (and all of our minds at that).

This is the LAST PLACE that you will ever get a surprise on the last day--there are far too many hobbyists out there for something like this to go un-noticed. The government would be hard pressed to lie about this.

There are so many scientists looking at this, even if a good swath of them are in cahoots--you wouldn't ever shut them all up.

Take a look at the following map of the solar system, note that there is an extremely expansive asteroid belt very near to us--and there is a second even larger belt on the outskirts of the solar system (called the Kuiper belt--pronounced Kigh-Purr). Belt doesn't really do them justice--they are more like asteroid spheres.

Now if we have that many space rocks zooming around this close to home, imagine how many more there are in the universe.

This might seem like a rare event, or an unlikely coincidence--but the reality is that in a universe our size, there is almost nothing which fits that description.

 

[markscastle]

And lightning hit St.Peter`s right after the Pope told the world he would retire? No my friend this is a sign. Wars, Earth Quakes, Floods and Storms maybe it`s just chance, maybe.

 

[markscastle]

Oh almost forgot it may be near the time the Demon clones Himself. He`s got GMO up and running already! I have cast the runes and eat`n the shrooms and my dreams have told me...you are not connected ,try checking your connection. You can try to reload later or watch a saved version of this page.

 

[squiggly]

Okay so here's what I gather.

We somehow went from talking about a meteor and an asteroid to your crazy religious beliefs.

You started by complaining that the facts aren't being shared with you--and somehow you end up on beliefs.

Facts =/= Beliefs


You're talking to the wrong person to give a crap about what some former Nazi did and how he's decided not to wear his fancy hat anymore.

I think pretty much all of this can be explained by science. You're welcome to believe what you will obviously, but what you believe is never going to constitute an explanation--unless of course you are omniscient.

 

[markscastle]

Science is man`s best guess based on what he sees. It is sometimes just wrong. Take genetic manipulation of food for example. To a scientist it just makes good sense but to the masses it isn`t natural. So then they hide what they are doing and in doing so put themselves above the masses.Science is not a god. It is one aspect of understanding.

 

[baba G]

It is crazy these days...but the crusades or other wars before our time would have seemed awfully crazy I'd imagine.
Craters are all over this rock we live on...it happens.

I do agree Governments lie mainly to make $ and gain power. But, to think the Gov't has all the answers/knowledge and is lying or holding out on you is a weird way to look at it logically. Sure they spin everything for their interest($,power) but they don't know it all. So, I'd guess they just don't know sometimes and that that could be misconstrued as being lied too if your into conspiracies....

 

[squiggly]

Science is man`s best guess based on what he sees. It is sometimes just wrong. Take genetic manipulation of food for example. To a scientist it just makes good sense but to the masses it isn`t natural. So then they hide what they are doing and in doing so put themselves above the masses.Science is not a god. It is one aspect of understanding.

It's a little deeper than that--for instance it's not only what we see, but what the instruments we devise can see--but I will accept your premise in general, and so would any real scientist.

It's also a bit deeper than that because it is cumulative, so it's not just one guess--it's a guess based on another guess that was demonstrated to be correct, and so on and so forth for thousands of years.

The thing about science that I'd most like to point out in this context is the actual word itself. I'd like to compare it briefly to the word 'omniscience'. Omniscience is that which usually is taken to describe the purview of a deity. It is, in a sense, everything that science could EVER offer in perfect form--and then some.

The choice of the word 'science' to describe the process we now know it as was purposeful in the sense that it sought to describe the process as seeking that which a creator would know by definition--but without the presupposition of perfection, which comes along with the prefix omni-.

It is correct to say the science is, thus, not omniscient. The very first definition of the process itself (naming it science) was in direct acquiescence to this fact.

However--as with anything where people do not have expertise, there is significant opportunity for a layman regarding science to misunderstand the limits of science. IE it is quite normal for people to assume that we can't know things which we do--or that we can't demonstrate repeatably things which we can.

Science is about measurements, and a key aspect of this is that we can be essentially 100% certain about two things in a measurement--the degree of accuracy in the measurement, and the range of values the error in that measurement might take on. This is central to science as a process. No measurement is worth spit if you don't know your error.

What we can't do is be certain of our explanation of the measurement--but the measurement itself can be repeated ad nauseum and the error in it quantified precisely. When the science itself IS the measurement, this can have fairly robust consequences. For instance--figuring out the acceleration of gravity allowed many advances in physics. Understanding gravity-time dilation is 1000% necessary for your GPS system to work. If the clock on the satellite was not adjusted for this effect, your GPS would be 20 miles off by the time you finished reading this reply, and it would only get worse from there.

One of the only things in this world which can be "proven" by science is the amount of error in a measurement. Proven/proved are otherwise illegal words in science. Saying them will get you laughed at and fired--and fast.

People get this wrong like anything else, but that is the purpose of designing repeatable experiments and the subsequent collaboration within the scientific community. Using instruments is a way to remove human error, but sometimes it still manages to creep its way in.

Science is imperfect, but it is significantly more powerful and nearer to perfection than you would likely ever admit.

This is ubiquitously the problem between people who are on the outside looking in vs. the inside looking out when it comes to science.

It is impossible to judge expertise in a given field properly without having expertise in that field.

For instance if I write a paragraph in Spanish and ask you to proofread it for spelling and grammar--you wouldn't be able to do that if you weren't literate and fluent in Spanish. You wouldn't be of use to me in criticizing me if my own expertise in Spanish surpassed yours.

This is a limitation in science, because while we would love to have the input and criticism of laymen--it sadly doesn't apply because, for lack of a better way to say it, laymen don't know what the hell they're talking about.

Having questions is normal, and it's alright. You'd be weird not to question things, and it would unscientific of me to ask you not to. However, that doesn't mean that alluva sudden beliefs will become demonstrable or that well demonstrated science should be expected to haphazardly change.

Science is collaborative. It has its limits--but it gave you the computer you're typing on, the clean (ish) water you drink from the tap, most of the food you eat (for without science feeding anywhere near even 300million in a country would be impossible, let alone feeding 7billion worldwide), and all of the health advances which have slowly brought the median age of death up from 40 to somewhere near 60 [and ever increasing].

Science certainly doesn't know everything, and if there is something divine about the universe I don't expect that science will ever breach it.

However, I personally don't believe that there is anything divine in the universe--and that is as well grounded and defensible a belief as yours is. That is because no one can prove, disprove, or demonstrate the altruism of something which can only be believed (i.e. for which there exists no empirical evidence).

So for as much as I believe there's nothing divine, I acknowledge that I can't know that. I only ask for the same concession from you. You can't know that any of what you say is true, even if you believe it is.

I find it best, instead, to focus on the things which I can know [and for the sake of argument lets suppose that I mean this in a useful sense--IE I can know that jumping off of a tall building is a bad idea because I'll probably die. Or I can know that the reaction I just ran created the chemical product that I wanted. Those are verifiable things. Those things which predictably happen the same way every time you do them. This is my focus because these are the types of things that help people while they are here. I can't do anything for people who are gone, and so I do not try to.

What I can tell you is that there's nothing off or weird about an asteroid and meteorite being near earth at the same time. The above depiction of the asteroid belts should make it abundantly clear why.

Now, could that ultimately be wrong? Could this be an omen of some sort? Sure.

As far as the repeatable, demonstrable, science goes--this is just a matter of probability. The chances are extraordinarily high that an event exactly like this one might take place somewhere in the universe at any given moment.

Now you can believe what you want--but it won't make this weird in the tangible sense. From what we know, this may as well have been predicted to happen--and probably the only reason it hasn't been is that it wouldn't have been a particularly helpful prediction inasmuch as it would be thought of as a foregone conclusion if you were to suggest it to the astronomy community. Everyone would agree, there are a shitload of space rocks floating around--nothing to see here.

Instead of worrying about what divine event we'd have no control over that this might forbear (probably nothing, need I point to the other 7 kajillion times in history that something was a "sign" and ended up not being one?)--I'd honestly suggest as a pragmatist that we worry more about how we would deal with an earth-killing asteroid if one were headed our way. Right now our plan would be to die about it, convincingly. Keep in mind that this asteroid buzzed inside of our network of satellites. This was a very VERY close shave we just took from this thing. We need to be prepared when close becomes too close.

Just saying when it comes to religion/spiritualism vs. science. I've seen science do good things for people and make credible predictions more. In fact the score is currently like 2937485692345234567546764 to 0.

Interestingly the above number is 293 kajillion and change (referenced earlier on). :)

 

[squiggly]

It is crazy these days...but the crusades or other wars before our time would have seemed awfully crazy I'd imagine.
Craters are all over this rock we live on...it happens.

I do agree Governments lie mainly to make $ and gain power. But, to think the Gov't has all the answers/knowledge and is lying or holding out on you is a weird way to look at it logically. Sure they spin everything for their interest($,power) but they don't know it all. So, I'd guess they just don't know sometimes and that that could be misconstrued as being lied too if your into conspiracies....

So let me get this straight, what you're telling me is that you believe the government is run by relatively normal people who aren't perfect all the time?

That's some crazy shit right there.

Lol.

Naw man, I 100% agree.

 

[markscastle]

It's a little deeper than that--for instance it's not only what we see, but what the instruments we devise can see--but I will accept your premise in general, and so would any real scientist.

It's also a bit deeper than that because it is cumulative, so it's not just one guess--it's a guess based on another guess that was demonstrated to be correct, and so on and so forth for thousands of years.

The thing about science that I'd most like to point out in this context is the actual word itself. I'd like to compare it briefly to the word 'omniscience'. Omniscience is that which usually is taken to describe the purview of a deity. It is, in a sense, everything that science could EVER offer in perfect form--and then some.

The choice of the word 'science' to describe the process we now know it as was purposeful in the sense that it sought to describe the process as seeking that which a creator would know by definition--but without the presupposition of perfection, which comes along with the prefix omni-.

It is correct to say the science is, thus, not omniscient. The very first definition of the process itself (naming it science) was in direct acquiescence to this fact....

However--as with anything where people do not have expertise, there is significant opportunity for a layman regarding science to misunderstand the limits of science. IE it is quite normal for people to assume that we can't know things which we do--or that we can't demonstrate repeatably things which we can.

And what are the odds that the universe is based on mathematical science and there is order to everything? Science is finding out that order, not making it. God made the universe and the order, we( his children) seek the understanding to use in the physical world we live in. That`s ok I guess but there is also the spiritual world that we also live in, just because you can`t sense it or measure it doesn`t mean it doesn`t exist. But to be more factual some measurement has been done. A study was done once weighing a person at death. At the exact time of death people lose a small amount of weight. It seems the same regardless of the person. This could be the soul. Where there is weight there is mass or energy. Not proof positive but some evidence to ponder. Also there are some scientists who believe in God or a higher being. It doesn`t have to be Science vs. Religion !

 

[Cort]

Speaking about understanding the size of the universe reminded me I had this gem saved. click the .gif to have your mind blown.

 

[squiggly]

And what are the odds that the universe is based on mathematical science and there is order to everything? Science is finding out that order, not making it. God made the universe and the order, we( his children) seek the understanding to use in the physical world we live in. That`s ok I guess but there is also the spiritual world that we also live in, just because you can`t sense it or measure it doesn`t mean it doesn`t exist. But to be more factual some measurement has been done. A study was done once weighing a person at death. At the exact time of death people lose a small amount of weight. It seems the same regardless of the person. This could be the soul. Where there is weight there is mass or energy. Not proof positive but some evidence to ponder. Also there are some scientists who believe in God or a higher being. It doesn`t have to be Science vs. Religion !

Again the odds are pretty dang good--otherwise the little clicky thing you're typing this with called the keyboard wouldn't work, much less the computer you're using, the fiberoptic cables carrying the signal, the servers routing it, etc.
What you've said is in part correct, because I can't disprove that God exists. However, you can't prove it either--they wouldn't call it faith if you could.

You're very correct to say that it is not science vs. religion. The two couldn't be more different from each other.

I just happen not to believe in religion. You suggested that someone was "lying" to you--and I suggested that this would not be possible. I supported that claim logically with several facts.

You, then, decided to bring up religion and somehow pit it against science. So I guess I would ask you: If you say we don't need to have the two fight with one another--why would you perpetuate it yourself?

I don't claim any knowledge of or against any type of religious notion whatsoever. I don't ascribe to them (and never will), but that doesn't mean I seek to judge them. I have read the bible multiple times (and many other religious documents) and have my own, separate, issues with religion--but that is neither here nor there. As far as the legitimacy of religion or the accuracy of it's claims--I can't tell you my butt from a hole in the ground.

Nor can anyone else, for that matter. You can know something for yourself, and that's fine--but there's nothing you can do to prove to society that you've got it all figured out. Knowing something for yourself, without empirical evidence, is the same as saying you believe it without question--and I don't doubt that perhaps you've had a personal experience that convinced you. Unfortunately that isn't something you can share or use as proof for someone else (or evidence against science).

As you said yourself, the two things really aren't fighting one another. One depends on hypothetico-deductive reasoning. The other is 100% bereft of it. Religion, for lack of this type of reasoning, can't say anything about science. Science is a special language you speak when you want to figure stuff out empirically. By definition it doesn't care about anything you don't have overwhelming evidence for or against. It tends to steer clear of religion for that reason.

Religion is something which requires a belief. Unfortunately for me, I guess, I form beliefs based on evidence. It might sound boring to you, but it makes sense to me (and a huge number of other humans).

As for the weighing people when they die--please cite the scientific study that was published in a peer-reviewed journal for me regarding this. I'd love to see it. If I were a betting man, I'd say that a scientific study of this phenomenon doesn't exist. As a result, I can't deny or confirm its existence--but I have my suspicions.

 

[markscastle]

First off this has taken a turn I didn`t intend. What I did intend is to imply that we are not being told the whole truth about occurrences happening in the world. I`m not sure just how much is because the Government's may themselves be un awear or they just don`t want to panic people. It maybe they are unsure themselves if events are related. But we have had an increase in world wide disasters and occurrences that can not be put totally on global warming. People are just going nuts all over! There may well be a reason or reasons this is happening so much but no one is saying why.

It`s not just the weather or the solar and meteor phenomena ,people are killing each other, kids are killing each other and it is getting worse all the time.

You can`t tell me the Government doesn`t lie to people about what they know. And that includes it`s scientists! My Grandfather was director of research and development for the NSA in the 60`s and early 70`s! He held a PH.D in electronic engineering as well as a few other doctorates. All he did was lie or defer about his work. I took some electronics classes in high school and when I saw some of the schematics and blue prints he was working on I can tell you this, They are far ahead of industry! They are still to this day using some of his work for national security and building on what he did back then. Early warning systems,satallite systems, electronic systems in military apps.of all kinds as well as ...I should stop there. Just what little I saw back then is enough to make me disappear in some whole somewhere for ever! It was important stuff, enough at 17 I had to have a top secret clearance just to see my Grandfather at his house! And yes he did much of his work at home. Why not it was a fortress of security and he was a friend of our President. So I may not be a scientist but I know something is up and they are not telling us everything! as for Religion one of our top scientists still working for the NSA is a catholic as am I.

 

[Seamaiden]

If you pay close attention, it's only the communist countries that are really being hit. :D

Mark, honestly, if you read some history, and I mean go back in time further than the 20th century, you'll see that it's not getting worse all the time. It's really the same as it ever was. In fact, in many respects it's far better. We no longer suffer siege regularly. Genghis Khan isn't flipping dead & rotten cows over our town walls to make us sick. The king doesn't send his men for the taxes, ready to hang you right outside your door if you can't pay, or forcing you to sell one of your children into slavery to settle the 'debt.'

Also, I feel deeply compelled to remind you that WE are the government, and I include some of my best, dearest and oldest friends in that statement. And I know that what they're not telling us is stuff I DON'T want to know. Guaran-fuckin-teed.

 

[baba G]

You said it Seamaiden...it's the people's attitude and actions, they are doing them themselves and should be held responsible for the most part.

I agree Mark, the govt lies and uses much of their future technology for the military. Again, look at the planet and tell me natural disasters aren't of the norm but it is us who is new here...

 

[baba G]

First off this has taken a turn I didn`t intend. What I did intend is to imply that we are not being told the whole truth about occurrences happening in the world. I`m not sure just how much is because the Government's may themselves be un awear or they just don`t want to panic people. It maybe they are unsure themselves if events are related. But we have had an increase in world wide disasters and occurrences that can not be put totally on global warming. People are just going nuts all over! There may well be a reason or reasons this is happening so much but no one is saying why.

It`s not just the weather or the solar and meteor phenomena ,people are killing each other, kids are killing each other and it is getting worse all the time.

You can`t tell me the Government doesn`t lie to people about what they know. And that includes it`s scientists! My Grandfather was director of research and development for the NSA in the 60`s and early 70`s! He held a PH.D in electronic engineering as well as a few other doctorates. All he did was lie or defer about his work. I took some electronics classes in high school and when I saw some of the schematics and blue prints he was working on I can tell you this, They are far ahead of industry! They are still to this day using some of his work for national security and building on what he did back then. Early warning systems,satallite systems, electronic systems in military apps.of all kinds as well as ...I should stop there. Just what little I saw back then is enough to make me disappear in some whole somewhere for ever! It was important stuff, enough at 17 I had to have a top secret clearance just to see my Grandfather at his house! And yes he did much of his work at home. Why not it was a fortress of security and he was a friend of our President. So I may not be a scientist but I know something is up and they are not telling us everything! as for Religion one of our top scientists still working for the NSA is a catholic as am I.

Just one more question. What high school electronic courses gave you the knowledge to understand a man's work who had many doctorates and was ahead of industry...?

You should have went into engineering Mark if your a mathematical wizard...the world needs good people with those skills!

 

[baba G]

Again, for anyone believing in Religion. Your God is evil if this is part of the plan....Also, you refer to us as HIS children. So, God is some dude?? Just sounds so weird that the ultimate creator of all things is a guy. Or even understandable to us...most people can't even do their taxes or simple math but they know the creator is a guy....beliefs are super dangerous.

If you believe God is and does, then you don't have an opening for an answer if one comes along. I choose to not believe, although that in itself is a belief it leaves a spot for me to put in good information to formulate an answer or hypothesis..theory IF one comes along. I can't believe the bible, I do believe in a whole world that exists(look through a microscope with an oil slide..!!) That we can't see but to think that it's all figured out or created just seems way too simple of an answer for the existing of our planet and solar system. Science has shown us much but what has God shown us?? In his name WAR and conquering have gone on for far too long!! We can't even get health care for all our country but people long ago were told the WHY from the creator and wrote a book after a dude died...well after he died....

anyways, that was my last lil rant, I'll leave your thread alone mark...


edit: I truly debated deleting this post as some religious people might take it as a personal attack. But, if as a lot of religious people say, Science is my religion... Than when someone attacks or questions my science and can disprove it or add to it, I listen and look at the facts or evidence. Quite contrary to many religious debates...

When someone attacks or simply questions peoples' religious beliefs they hardly defend them and don't wanna hear anything you have to say as an alternative view to the world. It's interesting, the church preaches so much but hardly lives up to much of it. The Catholic Church has done many lil boys so much harm and been caught doing it and those folks are appointed Church leaders....doesn't that make you wonder if they are truly trying to be Religious or just simply Powerful. Religion has many good and bad people but the same with the non-believers. We aren't evil, we just like to be proven things that have so much missing evidence...

 

[Burning Bush]

Wo ho got the masses ranting...it's gotta be that solar flare...that flew out the back of that pink flying pig!!!
The "man" would never disclose,that the tsunami in indo was man made,or that aids came out of a lab,or that they never landed on the moon,or that the twin towers were built to fall down.People could not believe such power exists.
science,smience
religion,smeligion
each person has their own!!!
why not honor that?