Colloidal Soft Rock Phosphate?

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A. Muse

A. Muse

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From that article, it appears as though after inoculation and the initial 14 day battle for supremacy in your soil, you'll be good to go. Phosphorus and all other minerals will be readily available. Seems like it would also counter-act any Sodium in Coco as well.
 
dextr0

dextr0

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From that article, it appears as though after inoculation and the initial 14 day battle for supremacy in your soil, you'll be good to go. Phosphorus and all other minerals will be readily available. Seems like it would also counter-act any Sodium in Coco as well.

I wonder if this battle keeps taking place if I reapply. The reason I say is because Im using a Fert. with it in it as the main source of Phos. I would hate to be hurting my beneficials with each new application.

After 300 lbs. of soft rock phosphate and 1 to 2 ton of lime are applied, in that order, per
acre, something happens in the soil. It forms a phosphate of calcium. The union which
takes place is one of the most powerful magnetic forces that can be imagined in soil
chemistry."A battle takes place in the soil the first 14 days after these elements are
applied in which insects, grubs, fungi, weed seeds, etc., are killed. If this battle made
any noise it would be heard for 50 miles. It is important NOT TO PLANT FOR 14
DAYS after applying the soft rock phosphate and the lime."
After they combine (in 10 to
14 days) it can rain, flood or sleet, and the bond will not be affected. A kind of glue is
formed, a gelatinous substance in the soil.
This magnetic bond will not permit any leaching or erosion to take place. It will hold
the soil nutrients and moisture, and prevent the rain, sun and wind from taking them
out. The fertilizers that are applied stay there until the crop uses them up. This is the
reason that soft rock phosphate and lime should be applied first, before any other
elements, in a good fertilizing program. Then the fertilizers applied later will not be
wasted.
 
dextr0

dextr0

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I also found this interesting...
Superphosphate (0-20-0), is highly acid. If you were to use it to apply the total needed
amount of phosphate, it would kill the ground and ruin it for crop production for three
years. Superphosphate is used for two things: one, as a catalyst, in order to change soil
from an anionic condition of growth to a cationic condition of production; the second, to
create energy.


And this helped me understand that...

A FINAL THOUGHT ON FERTILIZERS

Following is a basic law of nature that is so often over looked. Many times farmers' success and failure stories don't agree because of varied
soil conditions, various fertilizer mixes, etc.

Here is a basic nature law to consider:

ANIONIC (-) plant food makes growth and CATIONIC ( + ) plant food makes fruit. There are three elements called ISOTOPES, which can be
either ANIONIC or CATIONIC. They are hydrogen, oxygen and nitrogen. The ANIONIC form of nitrogen is NO 3 (nitrate) and the CATIONIC form
is NH3 (ammonia). With this basic law all fertilizer can be grouped for needed growth, or fruit production.

Also, ANIONIC nutrients move into a plant quicker than CATIONIC. All organic materials of high carbon content are always CATIONIC (for fruit
set and production).
 
A. Muse

A. Muse

14
3
Haven't had time to digest all the new info., but thought I'd post something I found that might help clarify this.

Reams is mentioned and it seems to expand on the ideas from the .pdf you linked.



N, Ca, P deficiencies masking themselves as lack of Mg, and how to make them all available by the initial inoculation of the soil with first SRP and then lime; "for those who like it in plain language without the technical jargon, add Rock Phosphate or Soft Rock Phosphate. Then add Lime and gypsum, and Chix poo. Finally, inoculate with a beneficial bacteria mix like BioVAM"

Also 2 comments down:
This comment and the next discuss the blending of Ca sources "Mix 50-50 Lime and Gypsum to form a neutral pH Calcium with added Sulfate and carbonate to boost growth", and the addition of lime and phosphate throughout the growing cycle "So far I've added lime every week and phosphate in quantity that will support lime so the ph is balanced".

Reams' Biological Theory of Ionization sounds like an interesting read.
 
dextr0

dextr0

1,671
163
Muse thas a killer find. That dude LawrenceLee has good shit to say throughout the whole conversation. Im fixing to apply this in my garden.

I was reading Dr. A Beddoe's book "Nourishment Home Grown". He was taught by Carey Reams that Magnesium (Mg) is something that's over emphasized by conventional thinking just because Mg is the main component of chlorophyll. Instead, he had found that plants can take up all the Mg they need from the air, and just a small amount of Mg in the soil is sufficient for strong healthy growth if the soil is biologically healthy.

He found that often, it was actually Nitrogen deficiency together with low Calcium and Phosphate levels that fooled the farmer into thinking it is an Mg deficiency. Then upon adding Mg, the farmer thinks he had addressed the deficiency because the plant seem to pick up in growth and colour. But soon however, he finds that other problems occur (mainly bugs due to anionic, leafy growth), and now, he thinks he's hit another deficiency, then another, and another... This proves Mg was not the deficiency in the first place, because the plant took the added Mg in replacement of needed Ca and N, explaining why the temporary (false) improvement. This is the gist of how biological ionization works - since everything lives on the energy released from our foods, our bodies (and plants too) will temporarily substitute an element for another just to tide over a deficiency in order to gain that needed energy. This explanation also most satisfactorily explains how a black cow can eat green grass and produce white milk from which yellow butter is made.

So the small amount of Mg for the soil can be gained from using Rock Phosphate, or like Kelmund says, from Ag Lime.

What is more important is to ensure the amount of Colloidal Phosphate (RP or SRP); Calcium and Soil bacteria are in good levels, and Mg will not be missed again.

Tin, I used to belong to the conventional school of thinking, and had been using Epsom Salt (MgSo4) on the soil and later in foliar feeding, before I learned this Reams method. Now I don't use Epsom Salts anymore and find I have better quality growth. (better quality does not mean bigger leaf or larger blooms, but instead, it means no pests, no weeds, no fungi, sweet fruits, less tending, greater consistency)

Kelmund, if you are following the discussion currently on BrixTalk about using Gypsum and Calcium Carbonate even on a high pH soil, you will have read that Dan Skow recommends Calcium Carbonate + Gypsum, even though soil pH is above 6.4. That is because the soil this recommendation was made for, had high biological activity and sufficient Phosphates. With sufficient P and beneficial bacteria, the 2 types of calcium will become converted to plant-usable energy and the soil pH will still stay stable at the ideal 6.4 as a result of this activity.

And for those who like it in plain language without the technical jargon, add Rock Phosphate or Soft Rock Phosphate. Then add Lime and gypsum, and Chix poo. Finally, inoculate with a beneficial bacteria mix like BioVAM.

HTH

LL
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

Living dead girl
23,596
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Sounds like how I ended up doing it without knowing what I was doing or why. Now I'd like to find non-mined sources for P, but most of what I find readily available is bat shit. I need to know that it's being harvested sustainably and with the least disturbance to the bats, or they'll go batshit.

If I understand what I'm reading currently, also, in order for P to specifically become available, microbe or fungal action is absolutely required.

The cow analogy is cracking me UP, too. When I was very young, we're talking about 5yo or so (back in '69 I'd say, I was into the Monkees back then, I still remember) I had a friend whose mother came over to ask my mother a very important question--where does CHOCOLATE MILK COME FROM? My mother stood there and told this woman, "Brown cows" and she bought it! I was stunned that my mother stood there and lied to that woman like that, and just as stunned that this woman didn't already know where chocolate comes from, not to mention milk, not to mention that all milk comes out white from any color cow.

Mom's response? "If she's that stupid, I'm going to tell her what amuses me." I've taken that with me for all the following 40+ years since.
 
dextr0

dextr0

1,671
163
Sounds like how I ended up doing it without knowing what I was doing or why. Now I'd like to find non-mined sources for P, but most of what I find readily available is bat shit. I need to know that it's being harvested sustainably and with the least disturbance to the bats, or they'll go batshit.

If I understand what I'm reading currently, also, in order for P to specifically become available, microbe or fungal action is absolutely required.

The cow analogy is cracking me UP, too. When I was very young, we're talking about 5yo or so (back in '69 I'd say, I was into the Monkees back then, I still remember) I had a friend whose mother came over to ask my mother a very important question--where does CHOCOLATE MILK COME FROM? My mother stood there and told this woman, "Brown cows" and she bought it! I was stunned that my mother stood there and lied to that woman like that, and just as stunned that this woman didn't already know where chocolate comes from, not to mention milk, not to mention that all milk comes out white from any color cow.

Mom's response? "If she's that stupid, I'm going to tell her what amuses me." I've taken that with me for all the following 40+ years since.

^^^Sea did u see the Calcium Phosphate recipe I posted in the Fermented Plant Extract thread?? Uses vinegar, eggshells or bones.

Im laughing at your mom story because I have a bad habit of doing that myself...and often forget to tell them im joking....lol.
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

Living dead girl
23,596
638
Nope, just the soft rock phosphate applied directly to the soil, then mixed in with bennies and other stuff.

You should hear some of the stuff my husband will tell people, especially younguns, and they believe him! Blows me away every time. I guess it's all in the delivery.
 
T

Toes

Guest
Great info Dextr0, I use the dolomite and rock phosphate in my soilless mixture. Luckily, pure luckily, I've always let my homemade soilless mixtures set for a month or so before using.

Your a wealth of knowledge... please keep the good stuff coming.
 
dextr0

dextr0

1,671
163
^^^Heres the rest of that conversation i think u should c it...

Soft Rock Phosphate can't be got. Must buy from overseas. Closest is Philipines. You can use bonemeal in place of SRP. But much smaller effect, but better than none. Rock phosphate is slightly better than bonemeal. There's a MO recently, look for Nuttynut. I've not collected my share of the RP from him, so you are welcome to grab my share from him (unless I beat you to it).

Good garden lime is very fine powder and should be high calcium and not dolomite, which contains magnesium. Can be bought from AMK nursery cheap. The finer the powder, the more instant your plants get access of the Calcium from lime. Lime raises pH because of the Carbonate.

Calcium Sulfate (Gypsum) is an acidic form of calcium can be bought from Dr. MallickYou can also buy food grade gypsum from your friendly tau huay seller.

Mix 50-50 Lime and Gypsum to form a neutral pH Calcium with added Sulfate and carbonate to boost growth. (Sulfate should not be added at bloom/fruit time as it stimulates leaf and shoot growth). Cover the bonemeal with the calcium layer.

Cover the calcium layer with chick poo or any other manure handy at the moment.

The last part is most important which you missed out. BioVam. Comprising a beneficial bacteria mix plus mycorrhizal fungi. Locally, you can get it from Wendell trading but $$. I got mine from Kelmund. Dunno if he has anymore to sell you. 1 teaspoon is enough. After using, do not use tap water anymore. better to use rainwater or treat tap water to destroy the chloramine that kills the good little workers you put in your soil.

All the earlier stuff are like the ingredients of a cake. Without heat, you just have slush in a cakepan. BioVAM is that heat to make the cake work.

HTH

EDIT
Remember this:
"Instead, he had found that plants can take up all the Mg they need from the air, and just a small amount of Mg in the soil is sufficient for strong healthy growth if the soil is biologically healthy." from the above post.

This goes with that:
"CACO3 is usually contaminated with magnesium residuals and its called dolomite too. hence you will be able to get mg source from them. even the CAO is contaminated with mg but in minimal quanitties so its PH raising effects not so obvoius. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolomite "
 
dextr0

dextr0

1,671
163
Nope, just the soft rock phosphate applied directly to the soil, then mixed in with bennies and other stuff.

You should hear some of the stuff my husband will tell people, especially younguns, and they believe him! Blows me away every time. I guess it's all in the delivery.
 

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