Converting to grow trees, need tips

kushtrees · Mar 11, 2013

I have a small tent where I veg with t5s. I get 4 harvests a year. 4 weeks veg + 8 weeks flower + 1 week clean up/ set up = 13 weeks a run. 52 weeks / 13 = 4 harvests like clockwork. The t5 veg happens about half way through flower.

I've always wanted to do double stacked but I don't have the amps or ceiling hieght, you would need at LEAST a 10-12 ft ceiling to make that work. I don't like plants touching the cieling, stuff get smashed and airflow is restricted.

My first vert run I vegged too long, plants almost doubled in hieght and width. I actually had plants touching bulbs, that was bad. I like plants 18" away from the bulb but they get as close as 8" I usually see a little fox tailing when this happens though. I think 16-18" is the sweet spot if you can keep the temps in check. Strong light but not enough to stress them

ttystikk · Mar 11, 2013

Going to school on this. When dropping vertical bulbs into the corners of a grow, does it make sense to have a reflector behind it? It seems to me that all the light going into the corner would otherwise be wasted.

LexLuthor · Mar 11, 2013

ttystikk said:
Going to school on this. When dropping vertical bulbs into the corners of a grow, does it make sense to have a reflector behind it? It seems to me that all the light going into the corner would otherwise be wasted.

I always think about that when I see pics of vert grows with lights in the corners. Seems to make sense to use a reflector so 50-60% of the light isn't getting wasted on the walls. I like the idea of 4 plants with 5 1k lights, if you have enough space you could put 4 extra lights, either 400 or 600w in reflectors in the corners so every plant has light all around it. When I have the space for vert growing, I'm definitely gonna try it that way. I've never seen anybody do that, I wonder why??

CelticEBE · Mar 11, 2013

shawnskush said:
so whats the verdict on cooltubes and vert growing?

I did a run a few years back with cool tubes.
Here's a link. https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/celtics-mrdizzle-inspired-run.38030/
I've since put them in storage and switched over to adjust a wings. I'm actually about to go back to vertical growing here soon though. May even start a new journal.

kushtrees · Mar 11, 2013

ttystikk said:
Going to school on this. When dropping vertical bulbs into the corners of a grow, does it make sense to have a reflector behind it? It seems to me that all the light going into the corner would otherwise be wasted.

I've always thought about this. For me my bulbs end up about 6" away from the corners, there isn't a lot of space for a reflector. Also some stretchier strains will kind of hug around the bulb. I used to have a SFV OG that did this. If your room has extra space a reflector could really help keep the light toward the canopy. With trees a 10x10 room gets small very quick

I like that idea lex, that is how I would do it if I had more space and more amps. Like this...

x x x
O O
x x x
O O
x x x

That's 9000w total for 4 plants, you may be wasting light on walls but you would have excellent coverage. Another thing I want to try is vert and overhead lighting. Add another 1k on top, 13kw 4 plants... 5k per plant... a guy can dream... i just need huge rooms, 200amp breaker, 15ft cielings and way more money

So much to try so little time...

ttystikk · Mar 11, 2013

Kush, I like the way you think! Just like fast cars, wretched excess is just what we're looking for, lol!

Adjust-a-wings are pretty big but offer the advantage of light weight and adjustability. I'm thinking of four Gavita DE hoods in the corners, vertical. The reflectors these come with are pretty small and would easily fit in corners. The center bulb would have to remain a screw-in style hps so it could hang and provide 360 degree coverage.

Another option might be to mount four lights on a mover and have each of these lights actually each orbit around its own tree. The movement allows the bulb to be closer and also prevents the plant from growing directly into them.

shawnskush · Mar 11, 2013

you should check out caps wall of dank using all the wallspace and trellising

ttystikk · Mar 11, 2013

shawnskush said:
you should check out caps wall of dank using all the wallspace and trellising

Oh, I have-it's impressive as hell! It also looked like a lot of work to trellis it like that.

shawnskush · Mar 11, 2013

lol it does indeed but it does look like it would be pretty rewarding

kushtrees · Mar 11, 2013

I can't wait till Gavita has a vertical bulb.

A light mover moving a bulb around a tree would be pretty cool. Or a spinning plant haha

GR33NL3AF · Mar 11, 2013

kushtrees said:
I can't wait till Gavita has a vertical bulb.

A light mover moving a bulb around a tree would be pretty cool. Or a spinning plant haha

Which would be a better use of light...
OOOOO
X X X O
OOOOO

Or...
X X X
OOOOO
X X X
^second one uses A wings/magnums hung vertically..

ttystikk · Mar 12, 2013

Are the 'DE'- double ended- bulbs for horizontal use only? If so, I still think they, in the Gavita fixture, would make an excellent light source in a light rotator system.

ttystikk · Mar 12, 2013

kushtrees said:
I can't wait till Gavita has a vertical bulb.

A light mover moving a bulb around a tree would be pretty cool. Or a spinning plant haha

I have seen plastic platforms with gears that actually will rotate plants! Automated irrigation, to say nothing of RDWC, would be very difficult. Moving bright lights around the plant is much easier and more accurately replicates the advantages of the sun moving across the sky. These advantages include more even light distribution, elimination of hot spots, drastically reduced leaf shading and more.

I'm going to try vertical bulbs next. I do want to do a light rotator, but one thing at a time.

One Flip · Mar 12, 2013

ttystikk said:
I have seen plastic platforms with gears that actually will rotate plants! Automated irrigation, to say nothing of RDWC, would be very difficult. Moving bright lights around the plant is much easier and more accurately replicates the advantages of the sun moving across the sky. These advantages include more even light distribution, elimination of hot spots, drastically reduced leaf shading and more.

I'm going to try vertical bulbs next. I do want to do a light rotator, but one thing at a time.

We have automated spinning platforms at a shop in Sea. I believe they will spin up to 120 pounds. I couldn't find a pic online.. The next time I'm down there ill snap a photo. I can't stop thinking about Caps Wall O' Dank. I want to make 4 walls and put them on casters so i can open/close and adjust light distance. I think the wall is the way! That was a great thread Cap.

ttystikk · Mar 12, 2013

The rotating platforms I saw at the 2010 Kush Convention in Denver were about three feet across, had a base and a geared inner platform. They looked study enough to stand on.

I still think these are best for soil grows with manual watering, but they would do a good job of rotating a plant in a Window, for example.

kushtrees · Mar 12, 2013

GR33NL3AF said:
Which would be a better use of light...
OOOOO
X X X O
OOOOO

Or...
X X X
OOOOO
X X X
^second one uses A wings/magnums hung vertically..

These are very different set ups. The first is more light efficient but you only have 3kw, the second one you have 6kw. Lets say you pull a g/w (just as an easy measure)... The 1st you can get 3000g, which means smaller plants and a smaller electric bill. The second you can get 6000g which will mean larger plants, longer veg and a higher electric bill.

Which is your limiting factor... Amps or plant numbers, or space. The 1st one is more light efficient for sure, you have plants on all sides of the lights. Vertical scrogs are highly light efficient

kushtrees · Mar 12, 2013

ttystikk said:
Are the 'DE'- double ended- bulbs for horizontal use only? If so, I still think they, in the Gavita fixture, would make an excellent light source in a light rotator system.

I was thinking for a middle bulb. If you can turn a Gavita sideways they would probably work well in the corners. I would love to see that

fishwhistle · Mar 12, 2013

I beleive whazzup said you cant(or not recommended) run the gavitas vert but i could be wrong tty.I think caps idea is legit and he probably came up with it by watching all that vert light hitting a blank wall so he figured a way to use it to his advantage.I have no experience growing trees inside but it seems to take a shitload of lights per tree,5-1k bulbs per 4 plants is alot to me,i wonder if the yield makes it worth it?Amps would be a limiting factor for sure.

Capulator · Mar 12, 2013

kushtrees said:
I run this...

O = plant, X = light

XOX
OXO
XOX

If you want more plants less light u can do this...

OXO
XOX
OXO

One giant plant in the middle this way

kushtrees is running the exact setup I said you should run in your 8 x 8. Listen to him he has the experience.

The last thing you want to do is veg too long. When the plants get taller then the light that's a problem that will hurt your yield due to the top main colas getting shadowed.

Chow is awesome for the peace of mind. RDWC can be tricky, but I know you have experience in this. :) The key is to know the strain you are running, and to know that not all strains are good in vert. christmas tree shaped is the best for uniform lighting. That means either no topping, or training to get as close to this shape as you can.

GR33NL3AF said:
So you don't have a separate veg space, you veg in your flower room?
That would be too much down time for me... The most I will veg for in my flower rooms is a week. Because of this I usually find myself running WAY more plants that I am comfortable with in order to fill my canopy.

Do you think a plant, like you mentioned (touching the ceiling), would benefit from double stacked vertical bulbs? All depends on heat huh?

What's the closest you've allowed your plants to get to bare bulbs?

Like kushtrees said. It's strain dependent. I have a tangerine I can veg for less than a week in the flower room, flip her at 18" and she will go to 6' with buds the size of 2 liter bottles.

ttystikk · Mar 12, 2013

kushtrees said:
I was thinking for a middle bulb. If you can turn a Gavita sideways they would probably work well in the corners. I would love to see that

Since the bulbs in these are double ended, they require a frame to mount the bulb and carry the circuit to connect to the far side. This frame would seriously get in the way of a center bulbs' light distribution. That's why I was thinking of using them in their fixtures, either vertically in the corners or level in an overhead light mover situation.

fishwhistle said:
I beleive whazzup said you cant(or not recommended) run the gavitas vert but i could be wrong tty.I think caps idea is legit and he probably came up with it by watching all that vert light hitting a blank wall so he figured a way to use it to his advantage.I have no experience growing trees inside but it seems to take a shitload of lights per tree,5-1k bulbs per 4 plants is alot to me,i wonder if the yield makes it worth it?Amps would be a limiting factor for sure.

I would take whazzap's word as gospel in this case. I hope he wanders in here and comments on this, so we can be certain.

Don't get me wrong about Cap's walls of green- there's no doubt they rock! But his method of 'espalier' is time intensive, and I've had problems growing plants against a wall in the past. That, plus my interest in minimizing my total plant count, is leading me towards the original idea of just four on 48" centers, with 5 vertical thouies. Finally, keeping 5kW cool is already going to tax my cooling plant to the limit.

Converting to grow trees, need tips

Converting to grow trees, need tips

kushtrees

ttystikk

LexLuthor

CelticEBE

kushtrees

ttystikk

shawnskush

ttystikk

shawnskush

kushtrees

GR33NL3AF

ttystikk

ttystikk

One Flip

Moderator

ttystikk

kushtrees

kushtrees

fishwhistle

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

ttystikk

Converting to grow trees, need tips

Converting to grow trees, need tips

kushtrees

ttystikk

LexLuthor

CelticEBE

kushtrees

ttystikk

shawnskush

ttystikk

shawnskush

kushtrees

GR33NL3AF

ttystikk

ttystikk

One Flip

Moderator

ttystikk

kushtrees

kushtrees

fishwhistle

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

ttystikk

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