Cops Test New Weed Breathalyzer On California Drivers

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jumpincactus

jumpincactus

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This suxx coming to a legal state near you soon!!!

Your days tooling around town, hotboxing the car may be numbered. While driving impaired under the influence of marijuana has always been illegal, law enforcement and policy makers have had yet to arrive at a standard measurement to prove impairment. A new marijuana breathalyzer that immediately detects THC levels could bring them one step closer to regulating marijuana-related impairment on the roads.

During an initial field test of the breathalyzer, California police officers teamed up with Mike Lynn, CEO of Hound Labs, which developed the device, to pull over erratic drivers and ask them to voluntarily blow into the breathalyzer. Purely for testing purposes, the drivers didn't face arrest unless they were also drunk (one of whom was). A handful of drivers even admitted to smoking weed within a half hour or several hours of driving. And those who tested positive for THC were given safe rides home.

Unlike breathalyzers that may simply detect the presence of THC, the Hound Labs device detects the levels of THC in parts per trillion. "That gives us a very precise amount of THC in the breath. That number, that measured level will ultimately be correlated to driving impairment at roadside," Lynn said. "Any legislation related to impairment needs to reflect true data."

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Image: Courtesy of Hound Labs

It's not clear exactly how much THC, the main psychoactive compound in cannabis, leads to impairment, but one study showed that drivers under the influence of marijuana had increased weaving with levels 13.1ug/L (micrograms/liter) THC.

In the next phase of testing, people will be given marijuana and then asked to drive around a safe, enclosed space so researchers can determine at what level impairment begins. THC in the breath only shows up within about the first two hours after people smoke, Lynn explained. "You can smoke every day, but if you haven't smoked for a few hours we're not going to detect it and measure it. That's the time period that correlates with maximum impairment," he said.

"It's critical for protecting people who have the legal right to smoke cannabis. Whatever you did last night shouldn't frankly impact you getting arrested the next morning if you're not impaired. That's the problem with urine, blood, and saliva tests."

Under the current model, if a driver is pulled over for seeming impairment, but doesn't test positive for alcohol, police officers can still make an arrest and order a THC test. In most places, if you refuse to take the test, you can lose your license for a year. Experts usually advise that if you haven't used marijuana for at least three days, to choose the blood test, usually the most accurate, because THC is detectable in the blood from two to seven days. Otherwise, they often say to choose a urine test because it shows THC from up to 35 days prior. But even so, detecting THC alone is not enough to prove impairment, which is required for DUI convictions.

"It's critical for protecting people who have the legal right to smoke cannabis."
The Hound Lab breathalyzer doesn't only measure THC in the breath, but also in the blood. "It's the smoke that goes almost immediately to your bloodstream, which then goes to your head," Lynn said. "You smoke it, it goes into your lungs, into the blood, and for lack of a better term, comes back around and is exhaled in the breath. We're measuring actual THC from the blood stream."

Therefore, the breathalyzer also works with edibles, which affect the bloodstream, and which also usually last longer than smoking. With a handheld device, the breathalyzer isolates THC from the breath via a disposable cartridge. When the analysis is complete, the measurement displays on a screen.

While marijuana breathalyzers may offer more precise measurements, they don't always indicate if a person is "under the influence," said Paul Armentano, deputy director of the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws. While the breathalyzer has advantages over urine or blood tests, it provides no definitive evidence that the person is actually impaired. This is especially true given the varying levels of tolerance among medical marijuana patients, daily users, and new users.

Read more: The Confusing Science of Driving While High

"Ultimately, if law enforcement's priority is to better identify drivers who may be under the influence of cannabis, then the appropriate response is to identify and incorporate specific performance measures that accurately distinguish those cannabis-influenced drivers from those who are not," Armentano said, "rather than relying on the detection of compounds that are not consistently associated with behavioral impairment." Some of these other methods include standardized field sobriety tests and performance technology, such as My Canary, an app that tests cognitive impairment.

While this technology is still in its infancy, it's unclear the extent to which law enforcement may utilize it, he said. Hound Labs is planning to have the breathalyzer at commercial capacity by latter half of 2017, Lynn said. The breathalyzer would be available nationally or even internationally.

"When I started this company it was truly to help with this balance of public safety that we need, and also balance that with fairness," Lynn said. "It makes no sense to be arresting people who use cannabis responsibly and are THC positive. That's why we measure THC in the breath."
 
LocalGrowGuy

LocalGrowGuy

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While marijuana breathalyzers may offer more precise measurements, they don't always indicate if a person is "under the influence," said Paul Armentano, deputy director of the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws. While the breathalyzer has advantages over urine or blood tests, it provides no definitive evidence that the person is actually impaired. This is especially true given the varying levels of tolerance among medical marijuana patients, daily users, and new users.

This is bullshit and inaccurate. Our 5ng/mL is a per se measurement, just like .08 for BAC. Impairment doesn't matter if you are over the threshold you are considered impaired.

http://www.ghsa.org/html/stateinfo/laws/dre_perse_laws.html
  • Per Se laws make it illegal to drive with amounts of specified drugs in the body that exceed set limits.
    • 6 states have per se laws in effect for one or more drugs
 
Twistedtreez

Twistedtreez

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My boy in Colorado beat this because he had and extended plant count and the lawyer found a way to prove that he used canabis at a much higher level than most and he got off, as far as this device , I've been told that you should not take this test due to the fact it could incriminate you for something you haven't done. My 2 cents
 
LocalGrowGuy

LocalGrowGuy

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My boy in Colorado beat this because he had and extended plant count and the lawyer found a way to prove that he used canabis at a much higher level than most and he got off, as far as this device , I've been told that you should not take this test due to the fact it could incriminate you for something you haven't done. My 2 cents
Assuming it is voluntary I agree, but if they approve these for use then declining is not an option. A requirement of getting your drivers license is that you are required to submit to a chemical test, usually alcohol, breath blood or urine. If they start to crack down on impaired driving this cannabis breath test could go into use full time, and that's the problem for me. If you refuse a chemical test you lose your license for a year. My concern is this requirement extending to marijuana. As we see more decrim we will see more arrests for DUI.

I'm glad your boy beat his charges, congrats on his lawyer being able to show medical need and personal use. You should be aware this is no longer an option as the red card folks do not recognize extended plant counts. I think you can assume that for every person that has an extended plant count recommendation, there is another Colorado farmer that does not have EPC but still do what they want to do, just like they have been doing for years. The old heads and the ones who have survived playing the game for years don't think much of these regulations and laws. For them it's still nothing more than words on a page.

Like your anecdote, I don't have a source to cite but the higher your plant count the more difficult it is to prove personal use.

None of this matters to anyone with any experience, as those who refused to put themselves on a list long ago (A20 in 2000) wouldn't do anything different now that extended plant counts are no longer a thing. I'm sure you could pay a doc to recommend a higher plant count, but that doesn't transfer to the dept of health anymore. Obviously those who have actual medical need will have more plants, recommendation or not.

The person who said to refuse the test would also tell you to refuse a breathalyzer if you've been drinking. Would you treat those two examples the same, or would you make a different decision depending on whether it's booze or drugs? I'm assuming we are playing the what if game here, because the breathalyzer happenings in california are field test for volunteers, not drivers suspected of DUI. This was controlled and the affected drivers were not allowed to continue driving.

This is where I got my info but the google yields many results:
http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2016...yzers-to-test-california-drivers-for-pot-use/
 
Twistedtreez

Twistedtreez

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Assuming it is voluntary I agree, but if they approve these for use then declining is not an option. A requirement of getting your drivers license is that you are required to submit to a chemical test, usually alcohol, breath blood or urine. If they start to crack down on impaired driving this cannabis breath test could go into use full time, and that's the problem for me. If you refuse a chemical test you lose your license for a year. My concern is this requirement extending to marijuana. As we see more decrim we will see more arrests for DUI.

I'm glad your boy beat his charges, congrats on his lawyer being able to show medical need and personal use. You should be aware this is no longer an option as the red card folks do not recognize extended plant counts. I think you can assume that for every person that has an extended plant count recommendation, there is another Colorado farmer that does not have EPC but still do what they want to do, just like they have been doing for years. The old heads and the ones who have survived playing the game for years don't think much of these regulations and laws. For them it's still nothing more than words on a page.

Like your anecdote, I don't have a source to cite but the higher your plant count the more difficult it is to prove personal use.

None of this matters to anyone with any experience, as those who refused to put themselves on a list long ago (A20 in 2000) wouldn't do anything different now that extended plant counts are no longer a thing. I'm sure you could pay a doc to recommend a higher plant count, but that doesn't transfer to the dept of health anymore. Obviously those who have actual medical need will have more plants, recommendation or not.

The person who said to refuse the test would also tell you to refuse a breathalyzer if you've been drinking. Would you treat those two examples the same, or would you make a different decision depending on whether it's booze or drugs? I'm assuming we are playing the what if game here, because the breathalyzer happenings in california are field test for volunteers, not drivers suspected of DUI. This was controlled and the affected drivers were not allowed to continue driving.

This is where I got my info but the google yields many results:
http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2016...yzers-to-test-california-drivers-for-pot-use/

Well that's part of the reason why people get fucked over is by letting them push you over, I'm not here to brag but I got told when I was 11 years old by my cousin that when I got older to never blow for a breathe loser ,so lining in Colorado 2014 I was pulled over for exhibition of speed , I was told that I smelled like alcohol , I told him I didn't drink someone spilled a drink on me, he asked me to take a field test I did and he told me I failed , I told him no I didn't I passed , he said I needed to blow I told him that I would not because I was not drinking and I would not incriminate myself he took me to jail I cussed him out I told everyone I fucked there wives , I refused blood test, the next day I filled for a temp license ,kept driving , in Colorado you face two trails for dwi a dmv hearing and then criminal charges, the cop didn't show up for dmv part so I kept my license( mind you I never was required to stop driving) then I went to the sentence and got community service and counseling I moved states and never did anything , when the p o called me o told him I moved away and I was doing it in another state , he said ok and that was three years ago, I have no warrants and I never let them push me around!! I would never take a weed breathilizer and any decent lawyer would tell you that something as new as an unproven weed. Reathelizer is nothing to worry about!! Stop getting pushed around and fight and tell anyone that will listen or be the guy to side with the cops and what you think reality is!
 
Twistedtreez

Twistedtreez

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I'm a true rebel no a racist rebel but a fascist bureaucrat hater rebel, I live my life the way I want and being real keeps real paper around me , I joined this site because I'm tired of what everyone thinks is right is walking around like sheep! I'm only gonna be real with folks and my passion for this plant takes every minute of my life , I will not allow anyone to bully me or I would rather be dead
 
LocalGrowGuy

LocalGrowGuy

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Well that's part of the reason why people get fucked over is by letting them push you over, I'm not here to brag but I got told when I was 11 years old by my cousin that when I got older to never blow for a breathe loser ,so lining in Colorado 2014 I was pulled over for exhibition of speed , I was told that I smelled like alcohol , I told him I didn't drink someone spilled a drink on me, he asked me to take a field test I did and he told me I failed , I told him no I didn't I passed , he said I needed to blow I told him that I would not because I was not drinking and I would not incriminate myself he took me to jail I cussed him out I told everyone I fucked there wives , I refused blood test, the next day I filled for a temp license ,kept driving , in Colorado you face two trails for dwi a dmv hearing and then criminal charges, the cop didn't show up for dmv part so I kept my license( mind you I never was required to stop driving) then I went to the sentence and got community service and counseling I moved states and never did anything , when the p o called me o told him I moved away and I was doing it in another state , he said ok and that was three years ago, I have no warrants and I never let them push me around!! I would never take a weed breathilizer and any decent lawyer would tell you that something as new as an unproven weed. Reathelizer is nothing to worry about!! Stop getting pushed around and fight and tell anyone that will listen or be the guy to side with the cops and what you think reality is!
You refused a road side and a chemical test, your license was suspended and then reinstated since you appealed the automatic penalty that was administered.

"he said I needed to blow I told him that I would not because I was not drinking and I would not incriminate myself he took me to jail I cussed him out I told everyone I fucked there wives"
If you weren't drinking, then how would blowing zeroes into a breathalyzer incriminate yourself?

Being a rebel is fucking bad ass!
 
Twistedtreez

Twistedtreez

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I was drunk as fuck, my thing is if you don't want anyone in the world to drink or smoke then make it a manditory thing for every car to have a breathalyzer if not then it's just picking on people ! The thing about the way you talk to them is you have to use the law from your understanding , first of all never tell them anything but your story or no story then nothing else , cause anything you say will be used against you and nothing will be used to help you
 
LocalGrowGuy

LocalGrowGuy

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I was drunk as fuck, my thing is if you don't want anyone in the world to drink or smoke then make it a manditory thing for every car to have a breathalyzer if not then it's just picking on people ! The thing about the way you talk to them is you have to use the law from your understanding , first of all never tell them anything but your story or no story then nothing else , cause anything you say will be used against you and nothing will be used to help you
You have a lot to learn, I hope you don't have to learn things the hard way, but good luck.

Being 'drunk as fuck' and making a conscious decision to drive doesn't make you brave, it makes you an asshole. Drunkenly telling cops you fucked their wives doesn't make you brave, it makes you an asshole.

From one to another, stop acting like an asshole. No wonder this generation is fucked. Just because you can get away with it doesn't make it okay, you aren't a five year old even though you post like it.

Back to my corner I go.
 
Twistedtreez

Twistedtreez

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I m not an asshole or I would have said"I don't expect a 400 lb guy behind the computer to understand what I'm saying"
 
Twistedtreez

Twistedtreez

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Matter a fact you sound like a cop simpathizer your probably some college a hole that got his grow license and thinks he is a legel beagle ,this is a story from my past , you don't wanna go there homie you have no idea who I am and anything you can do I constantly do better, except for spelling but your one of those educated dudes so you remind me of my teachers a bunch to say about some bullshit! Point is I'm not giving my blood piss or cum to anybody unless I want to and that's my rights so whatever
 
Twistedtreez

Twistedtreez

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Ps I havnt drunk al over in over a year by my own choice , thanks for caring
 
jumpincactus

jumpincactus

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Yo I'm 38 and mind your business I'm being honest
Whoa whoa bro. You are entitled to your opinion and even your behavior as long as you can handle the end game from said behavior. Driving hammerred isnt cool. But telling @LocalGrowGuy to mind his own business isnt kool. You posted publicly airing your position for the world to see so it became public knowledge with your blessings. He was also entitled to his opinion, even if it pissed you off or you didnt agree. We are all family here and lets not stand divided.

In all honesty you did come off as a braggart. Just my .2 cents
 
AmWeedwolf

AmWeedwolf

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It's not clear exactly how much THC, the main psychoactive compound in cannabis, leads to impairment, but one study showed that drivers under the influence of marijuana had increased weaving with levels 13.1ug/L (micrograms/liter) THC.

There is a big problem with using this kind of study for determining safety thresholds that lawmakers simply do not recognize. The scientists themselves usually don't know what types/varieties of weed they're administering and it is virtually never reported, if it is known. I'm sure we can all agree that the results will be very different for Bubba Kush and Sour Diesel! TBH I wouldn't be surprised if the latter actually improved a person's driving safety!
 
LocalGrowGuy

LocalGrowGuy

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There is a big problem with using this kind of study for determining safety thresholds that lawmakers simply do not recognize. The scientists themselves usually don't know what types/varieties of weed they're administering and it is virtually never reported, if it is known. I'm sure we can all agree that the results will be very different for Bubba Kush and Sour Diesel! TBH I wouldn't be surprised if the latter actually improved a person's driving safety!
Please stop saying driving high makes you a better driver. It's a tired, old, weak argument that holds no water, especially when you aren't willing to say that to a cop if you get pulled over. The only thing it does is makes non-users despise you. Remember how this whole weed thing works, treating it like alcohol? You've no doubt seen the news stories about sensational acts committed and then blamed on being under the influence of that devil lettuce. The people who want to see pot go away will never learn, care or understand it, and simply telling them they are wrong in the face of so many anti-marijuana 'issues' only serves to entrench 'them' against 'us'.

Would you ever say that driving drunk helps you be a better driver? I mean out loud to someone else, not on the interwebz.
 
AmWeedwolf

AmWeedwolf

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Please stop saying driving high makes you a better driver. It's a tired, old, weak argument that holds no water, especially when you aren't willing to say that to a cop if you get pulled over. The only thing it does is makes non-users despise you. Remember how this whole weed thing works, treating it like alcohol? You've no doubt seen the news stories about sensational acts committed and then blamed on being under the influence of that devil lettuce. The people who want to see pot go away will never learn, care or understand it, and simply telling them they are wrong in the face of so many anti-marijuana 'issues' only serves to entrench 'them' against 'us'.

Would you ever say that driving drunk helps you be a better driver? I mean out loud to someone else, not on the interwebz.

I am not arguing that driving high makes you a better driver. I am arguing that the effect of driving high on driver safety and accident culpability is insignificant.

Let's look to science... and the results to date of crash culpability studies have failed to demonstrate that drivers with cannabinoids in the blood are significantly more likely than drug-free drivers to be culpable in road crashes.

"[In] cases in which THC was the only drug present were analyzed, the culpability ratio was found to be not significantly different from the no-drug group.”

REFERENCE: G. Chesher and M. Longo. 2002. Cannabis and alcohol in motor vehicle accidents. In: F. Grotenhermen and E. Russo (Eds.) Cannabis and Cannabinoids: Pharmacology, Toxicology, and Therapeutic Potential. New York: Haworth Press. Pp. 313-323.

"Cannabis alone, particularly in low doses, has little effect on the skills involved in automobile driving.”

REFERENCE: Canadian Senate Special Committee on Illegal Drugs. 2002. Cannabis: Summary Report: Our Position for a Canadian Public Policy. Ottawa. Chapter 8: Driving Under the Influence of Cannabis.

“In conclusion, marijuana impairs driving behavior. However, this impairment is mitigated in that subjects under marijuana treatment appear to perceive that they are indeed impaired. Where they can compensate, they do, for example by not overtaking, by slowing down and by focusing their attention when they know a response will be required. … Effects on driving behavior are present up to an hour after smoking but do not continue for extended periods.

With respect to comparisons between alcohol and marijuana effects, these substances tend to differ in their effects. In contrast to the compensatory behavior exhibited by subjects under marijuana treatment, subjects who have received alcohol tend to drive in a more risky manner. Both substances impair performance; however, the more cautious behavior of subjects who have received marijuana decreases the impact of the drug on performance, whereas the opposite holds true for alcohol.”

REFERENCE: A. Smiley. 1999. Marijuana: On-Road and Driving-Simulator Studies. In: H. Kalant et al. (Eds) The Health Effects of Cannabis. Toronto: Center for Addiction and Mental Health. Pp. 173-191.

“For each of 2,500 injured drivers presenting to a hospital, a blood sample was collected for later analysis.

In contrast, there was no significant increase in [accident] culpability for cannabinoids alone. While a relatively large number of injured drivers tested positive for cannabinoids, culpability rates were no higher than those for the drug free group. This is consistent with other findings.”

REFERENCE: Logan, M.C., Hunter, C.E., Lokan, R.J., White, J.M., & White, M.A. (2000). The Prevalence of Alcohol, Cannabinoids, Benzodiazepines and Stimulants Amongst Injured Drivers and Their Role in Driver Culpability: Part II: The Relationship Between Drug Prevalence and Drug Concentration, and Driver Culpability. Accident Analysis and Prevention, 32, 623-32.


In contrast, feeling sad, angry or agitated behind the wheel raises the risk of an accident significantly...by nearly ten times. Fatigue was found to increase accident culpability by three times. In fact, the (insignificant) effect of driving high on accident risk is comparable with "fiddling with the radio", eating, drinking, or "interacting with children in the rear seat".

REFERENCE: Dingus, T. A., Guo, F., Lee, S., Antin, J. F., Perez, M., Buchanan-King, M., & Hankey, J. (2016). Driver crash risk factors and prevalence evaluation using naturalistic driving data. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, 113(10), 2636-2641.
 
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