Could Air Stones Be Doing More Harm Than Good?

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heisen

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I record and take pictures of everything.I over anylize everything and i know when something is not right with my plants.I know for a fact if i unplugged my air pump all my plants would take a huge shit and get brown roots in a mtter of a few days.This was how they all looked before i put them in the back main buckets.this pic was taken 4/3
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here they are on 4/5 in the main buckets and everything is looking good
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here they are 5/10 5 days later and 9 and 10 are looking like shit.they are looking like plants that are in soil and way overwatered.It brought me to discover that in both of those buckets the air stones were clogged up and there was not enough DO.end of story the end.
20170410 020223
 
DemonTrich

DemonTrich

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Little ot, but still a valid point. I keep stored water in a 54gal commercial garbage can. I have 3x air pumps with 6x air stones running 24/7. If i don'th have the air pumps and stones working, my water gets stagnant in 12 hrs or so. So (imo), air stones work at keeping the water fresh and stagnant free.
 
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FooDoo

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Honestly dude i think you missed my point.... Airstones, water falls , water movement ALL increase DO. The exchange occurs at the waters surface with turbulence/movement which is what all of those methods create. What I was saying is there is no one "right" way. Your delivery comes off as very self righteous as if airstones cannot work which is completely untrue. Waterfalls increase DO, water movement increases DO , airstones increase DO..... Do what works for you....Many ways to skin a cat . So before you get all philosophical comparing your plight to einsteins ...

Wish you all the best. I didn't read what you wrote before my reply and my reply wasn't directed towards anything you said

I, never, not even once , stated air stones don't work. I'm stating air stones heat water, use electricity , introduce pathogens, and create such a violent turbalance that it tears apart the gentle fragile sensensitve root systems.
 
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FooDoo

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If you use air stones, and like to continue to use them, then I wish you all the best with those airstones.
 
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mandalaman

mandalaman

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I just did my best at clearing up the clutter and nonsense. Instead of just deleting the last two pages I went through and actually tried to edit to keep it on topic. If you don't like the edit I made on your post, please just delete it. Simple as that.

No warning points issued. No bans. No bullshit. No pointing fingers. Let's just keep the thread on topic please.

No one is saying airstones don't work. That is not the point of this thread. This thread is a valuable piece of information and I refuse to let it get shitted up. Take the information in here or leave it. Come on in and offer your own experiences. Discuss. Feel free to disagree. But keep it civil. And don't let it devolve into what it was becoming.

Again, I did my best to impartially and painstakingly (on my phone) edit posts instead of deleting them. So if you're not happy with my edit. Delete your entire post.

And @FooDoo I hope you continue to post here man.
 
snoopytime

snoopytime

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Some things I can add to this thread . .

1 - Different types of roots grow for different conditions. I have left cuttings in a spagetti sauce jar for 2 months and only refill with tap water . . the roots grow for no-bubbles\low oxygen and thats what they are use to. They NEVER need bubbles.

2 - If the plants grow roots in bubbles then you cut it, your changing what the roots are use to so of course they kook out.

We were running around 2HP of air in a UC16XXL drawing outside desert air (sometimes 100 degrees before going through a piston compressor and getting even hotter)_ . . and it fucked the plants up . . they grew like 6 inches in 3 weeks with CO2 and DIMLUX and AC . . then we noticed 2 plants were doing OK .. it was the 2 with cloggged stones and no bubbles in the pod. They didnt get over fed from nutes and they didnt have a hair dryer up their ass blowing 120 degree compressed air all day . . we killed the air to the pods and all the plants got happy in 24 hours.

There is another factor that happens with hyper aeration - the constant changing of state of the root membrane from dry to wet that allows molecules to pass much more freely, hence the reduced PPM with higher aeration

This bonus multiplier increases the yield while increasing the risk of over feeding and reliance on (extra) mechanical systems.

Therefore the safer way for us for now is to go no pod air and raise the nutes to the Heath target of 1.2 EC

Thx FooDoo for this thread and your application of logic!
 
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FooDoo

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Some things I can add to this thread . .

1 - Different types of roots grow for different conditions. I have left cuttings in a spagetti sauce jar for 2 months and only refill with tap water . . the roots grow for no-bubbles\low oxygen and thats what they are use to. They NEVER need bubbles.

2 - If the plants grow roots in bubbles then you cut it, your changing what the roots are use to so of course they kook out.

We were running around 2HP of air in a UC16XXL drawing outside desert air (sometimes 100 degrees before going through a piston compressor and getting even hotter)_ . . and it fucked the plants up . . they grew like 6 inches in 3 weeks with CO2 and DIMLUX and AC . . then we noticed 2 plants were doing OK .. it was the 2 with cloggged stones and no bubbles in the pod. They didnt get over fed from nutes and they didnt have a hair dryer up their ass blowing 120 degree compressed air all day . . we killed the air to the pods and all the plants got happy in 24 hours.

There is another factor that happens with hyper aeration - the constant changing of state of the root membrane from dry to wet that allows molecules to pass much more freely, hence the reduced PPM with higher aeration

This bonus multiplier increases the yield while increasing the risk of over feeding and reliance on (extra) mechanical systems.

Therefore the safer way for us for now is to go no pod air and raise the nutes to the Heath target of 1.2 EC

Thx FooDoo for this thread and your application of logic!

No, THANK YOU for your post and sharing your experience.

I never fish for compliments and sometimes am reluctant to even accept them but just know your words were greatly appreciated by me and it made my evening a whole lot better.
 
mandalaman

mandalaman

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always thought oxygen was the Achilles heel in DWC.I cant understand how you guys are running these plants in water thats just sitting still and not experiencing major issues.

I hear you! Completely understandable to be skeptical. But you must remember the water isn't sitting still. All the water is being circulated X times per hour (depending on a couple different variables). But I'm a convert. I run RDWC without airstones after some talks with foodoo. It works. There's also plenty of other people in this very thread showing that it works.

That being said. If you're happy with how your system is working, then you do you man. But I would say if the opportunity ever arises that you have a chance to test it out without considerable modifications that you give it a shot. None the less your skepticism is natural and is precisely the point of this thread, in my opinion, as we would all be skeptical of this based on what is passed on as absolute truth.
 
PhatNuggz

PhatNuggz

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I saw a YT video abut flooming, which introduced air into the nutrients as they flow from the outlet tube. Pretty simple diy.. Due to using small rezes, pumps are on a deep cycle timer ~ 3/20, otherwise the water gets > 90*s, which hurt my plants last grow

IMG 3856
 
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PhatNuggz

PhatNuggz

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The smaller diameter tubing sticking up is the venturi. The o/o valve is not necessary. I could not find another elbow, which is all that's needed on the riser tube

hth
 
JMcG

JMcG

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My update..
Two runs now in a UC four banger using only one air line with no stone ( more flume and less bubbles) and a waterfall return line in the epi ONLY. None in the individual pods.
Plants grew just fine, root balls were not as huge as some have posted but they stayed white and healthy .
 
stickyfing3rs

stickyfing3rs

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I've used Venturi's in my system and since switched to a waterfall. Venturi's drastically reduce circulation without high pressure pumps. Both work good but IMO the waterfall is much more effective for the same size pump.
 
stickyfing3rs

stickyfing3rs

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I also just finished a UC style system for a friend with waterfalls in each bucket. He hasn't fired it up yet but I expect it will work excellent. Jebao DC drive pumps and waterfalls make a hell of a difference in my electric bill
 
PhatNuggz

PhatNuggz

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always thought oxygen was the Achilles heel in DWC.I cant understand how you guys are running these plants in water thats just sitting still and not experiencing major issues.

Last grow I was experimenting with one rez containing 4 stones. I usually change out the nutes ~ 7-10 days. Apparently this one went a bit too long. When I popped the lid the smell stunk big time. I checked the pump and somehow I had turned it down to barely pumping
 
PhatNuggz

PhatNuggz

2,121
163
I've used Venturi's in my system and since switched to a waterfall. Venturi's drastically reduce circulation without high pressure pumps. Both work good but IMO the waterfall is much more effective for the same size pump.

I would too, but mosquito control is my main issue
 
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