Curling leaves with mag def.

SmokeSupreme · Nov 25, 2019

So ive had and issue with these two things happening in canna coco with dry amendments (dr. earths 4-4-4 and 3-9-4 @ a 70-30 ratio) phed to 6.5 to 6.8. temp has been 77-80 RH 30%-40% i water with molasses every to every other watering have never made a tea. was thinking i need to add some worm castings or something to the coco to give homes for certain nutes and microbes from what ive read because coco is inert? but ive had mixed answers everywhere ive looked such as i shouldnt ph but my water de-chlorinated (sat out for 24 hours) is at 8.2-8.3 and i dont use a buffer as well as i have not ammended with castings at all. 4 of my plants are in 3 gal pots and have well consolidated root systems so its not like i can put them in something different. i do have some 5 gal fabric pots. they will do well for a week or two then growth slows and these signs of def. and leaf curl pop up again. i have been banging my head against the wall trying to get an actual answer on what is my smartest move at this point. Thought about trying to not ph the water but have heard my taps ph is too high(8.2). ppms at 250 out the tap. thought about top dressing with castings but dont know if that will do the trick. have also thought about phos locking out cal-mag and maybe thats the issue..... anyone with any other ideas or an actual reasonable answer on what i should try im willing to do whatever rite now. making teas with castings, molasses, liquid seaweed, etc.... transplant to the 5 gal with some new medium? idk...

please can someone school me in this department as i already made the leap and apparently dont know what im doing and need help. lol thank you for any and all comments to help me out i really really appreciate it.

SmokeSupreme · Nov 25, 2019

This is them rite now, just a week ago they were still light in color but were all preying for the light and looking completely healthy. the one thing that i noticed happened was they did not suck up any of the water i gave them the night before and i assumed it was overwatering but they r in straight coco.... i still waitedthe next two days for it to dry out somewhat then gave them light waterings the past 3 nights when i got home from work with molasses last time i watered them at 6.5 tonight hoping that it might be from high ph. any fellow grower willing to help me out id appreciate it a bunch if i could figure out something to do that isnt drastic measures.id really like to stick to organics even if i have to fight through this grow to make a better medium the next time.oh and the tent is a 4x2. they are under 2 600w mars hydro ts leds about 18 inches from the canopy. thats about all the info i can give :/

SmokeSupreme · Nov 25, 2019

will a fellow grower drop in and help a brotha out?

SPARECHANGE · Nov 25, 2019

1st- i don't think you're beyond rescue, YET. since I'm not a zealot grower, I'm going to drop in research that hopefully, reminds u, when u see it, where u made the wrong turn. my knowledge base would not apply to your extremist style, grow and please, don't shoot me.
I'm going to grab the ph chart.... it's beyond calmag... saw a few female complaints.

SPARECHANGE · Nov 25, 2019

sorry! i panicked! there's soil, hydro, coco and some guy, sellin snake oil, just sounded cool

oldskol4evr · Nov 25, 2019

SmokeSupreme said:
So ive had and issue with these two things happening in canna coco with dry amendments (dr. earths 4-4-4 and 3-9-4 @ a 70-30 ratio) phed to 6.5 to 6.8. temp has been 77-80 RH 30%-40% i water with molasses every to every other watering have never made a tea. was thinking i need to add some worm castings or something to the coco to give homes for certain nutes and microbes from what ive read because coco is inert? but ive had mixed answers everywhere ive looked such as i shouldnt ph but my water de-chlorinated (sat out for 24 hours) is at 8.2-8.3 and i dont use a buffer as well as i have not ammended with castings at all. 4 of my plants are in 3 gal pots and have well consolidated root systems so its not like i can put them in something different. i do have some 5 gal fabric pots. they will do well for a week or two then growth slows and these signs of def. and leaf curl pop up again. i have been banging my head against the wall trying to get an actual answer on what is my smartest move at this point. Thought about trying to not ph the water but have heard my taps ph is too high(8.2). ppms at 250 out the tap. thought about top dressing with castings but dont know if that will do the trick. have also thought about phos locking out cal-mag and maybe thats the issue..... anyone with any other ideas or an actual reasonable answer on what i should try im willing to do whatever rite now. making teas with castings, molasses, liquid seaweed, etc.... transplant to the 5 gal with some new medium? idk...

please can someone school me in this department as i already made the leap and apparently dont know what im doing and need help. lol thank you for any and all comments to help me out i really really appreciate it.

first off a pic would help,next you are correct of coco inert you are going to have ot supplement your cal mag,i would add that first,with your hard water have you thought about deluting your tap water with ro water to save a little money,anyway like i said a pic helps and i dont see a plant were i can tell you were you should be feeding,this i know 6.8 in coco isnt gonna get it ,didnt for me,i ran right around 6.2 for the sweet spot,the dry amends ,i really dont know how you can control ppm's at all using them in coco so cant say,liquid earthworms casting sounds like a great ticket for you,but just guessing thats what i would work at is the hard water and ph adjustments right off the bat

PlumberSoCal · Nov 25, 2019

SmokeSupreme said:
So ive had and issue with these two things happening in canna coco with dry amendments (dr. earths 4-4-4 and 3-9-4 @ a 70-30 ratio) phed to 6.5 to 6.8. temp has been 77-80 RH 30%-40% i water with molasses every to every other watering have never made a tea. was thinking i need to add some worm castings or something to the coco to give homes for certain nutes and microbes from what ive read because coco is inert? but ive had mixed answers everywhere ive looked such as i shouldnt ph but my water de-chlorinated (sat out for 24 hours) is at 8.2-8.3 and i dont use a buffer as well as i have not ammended with castings at all. 4 of my plants are in 3 gal pots and have well consolidated root systems so its not like i can put them in something different. i do have some 5 gal fabric pots. they will do well for a week or two then growth slows and these signs of def. and leaf curl pop up again. i have been banging my head against the wall trying to get an actual answer on what is my smartest move at this point. Thought about trying to not ph the water but have heard my taps ph is too high(8.2). ppms at 250 out the tap. thought about top dressing with castings but dont know if that will do the trick. have also thought about phos locking out cal-mag and maybe thats the issue..... anyone with any other ideas or an actual reasonable answer on what i should try im willing to do whatever rite now. making teas with castings, molasses, liquid seaweed, etc.... transplant to the 5 gal with some new medium? idk...

please can someone school me in this department as i already made the leap and apparently dont know what im doing and need help. lol thank you for any and all comments to help me out i really really appreciate it.

Ya got me. I grow in coco but use hydro nutes and water several times per day.

Yes, coco is inert but will take on the pH of your water. Big problem with the pH over 8. Needs to be about 6. 5.8 would be better. Coco also holds a lot of water and that leaf droop is classic overwatering.

Start adjusting the pH, it should help.

How often do you water?

oldskol4evr · Nov 25, 2019

SmokeSupreme said:
This is them rite now, just a week ago they were still light in color but were all preying for the light and looking completely healthy. the one thing that i noticed happened was they did not suck up any of the water i gave them the night before and i assumed it was overwatering but they r in straight coco.... i still waitedthe next two days for it to dry out somewhat then gave them light waterings the past 3 nights when i got home from work with molasses last time i watered them at 6.5 tonight hoping that it might be from high ph. any fellow grower willing to help me out id appreciate it a bunch if i could figure out something to do that isnt drastic measures.id really like to stick to organics even if i have to fight through this grow to make a better medium the next time.oh and the tent is a 4x2. they are under 2 600w mars hydro ts leds about 18 inches from the canopy. thats about all the info i can give :/
View attachment 914076 View attachment 914080 View attachment 914081 View attachment 914077

ya them look over feed,and i dont think ewc be a good idea with the curling starting,tips and edges look like over feed to me

SPARECHANGE · Nov 25, 2019

i use coco, as well, but I'm ph ocd so... admittedly, i did not wash it.
plumber, is is not true, that unwashed coco, can empart a ph value? i know things r diff, for u guys. ph did sound high. i hadn't seen that, in my room, since 05 so i have no doubt, jolly rodger, is correct, in his judgment- i put that season, through hell, is all i remember so today, liming to me, just says a lil cmag, through what's typically transition to bloom.
he is able to control his ppm, oldschool: i believe they water to runoff, and check with tds, or ec, those results.

Vondank420 · Nov 25, 2019

Add cal/mag @10ml/gal for 2 feeds then back to 5ml/gal. Plants will 180deg. Your low N and Mag

SPARECHANGE · Nov 25, 2019

uh... both ends of the spectrum, as to responses... check that ppm. if they are, deficient, a flush ain't gonna be a dealbreaker. i dunno how soilless n livin soil, brix, etc... deals with ppm, but i can't imagine it's all that nuanced. THEN, maybe, start from scratch, so u could actually address both, old school's and vonstank's, concerns, simultaneously.

Aqua Man · Nov 25, 2019

I'm not a coco grower and trying to stay away from giving advice in coco but...

Stop feeding molasses period. It contains calcium, magnesium sulfur and potassium.

I get your trying to feed microbes but in coco there is no need. It's only beneficial in fully organic grows and it needs to be done right

To me it looks like potassium toxicity from the molasses. Ph is definitely and issue and you want a ph of 5.8-6.2 from my understanding.
I'm not going to even give advice on the rest but my point is.... Stop the molasses

SmokeSupreme · Nov 25, 2019

this is all great stuff guys thank you so much ihad a feeling i should drop the ph while in coco but was unsure with the dry amendments. i have been watering once a day until runoff but stopped because the day everything went downhill again it was like they wouldnt drink ANYTHING and their pots were still completely wet and heavy i had to wait two days before watering again and saw the droop which i thought was from overwatering but was unsure just because they so abruptly stopped drinking. i have slowly been dropping the ph (@ 6.5) so far and i will drop it to 6.2 thank you oldskol for the sweet spot. ill cut the molasses and stick to other means of feeding microbes maybe if u guys suggest liquid seaweed once a week? idk i just know its good to keep those microbes fed if anyones got anymore advice on that it would be greatly appreciated as well. and as far as watering goes i know i dont want them to go completely dry killing the microbes so should i just wait until its 50% of the weight when full? should i still water til runoff as well? thank you guys a million times youve cured the headache ive had for the past week and confirmed some thought i already had!

SPARECHANGE · Nov 25, 2019

wait way way way WAIT! every day? is that a real thing, for u guys? gnats?
are they dry, ea day? that sounds highly, unusual, for any method. are they talkin to u, when u water em, i.e.- eveR, even shrugging? this might b huge. the pic said nothin to me about an overwatering shrug so... never occurred, but can still, b a huge factor and cause soil peeps, even more aggravation, down the rd.

Beachwalker · Nov 25, 2019

SmokeSupreme said:
This is them rite now, just a week ago they were still light in color but were all preying for the light and looking completely healthy. the one thing that i noticed happened was they did not suck up any of the water i gave them the night before and i assumed it was overwatering but they r in straight coco.... i still waitedthe next two days for it to dry out somewhat then gave them light waterings the past 3 nights when i got home from work with molasses last time i watered them at 6.5 tonight hoping that it might be from high ph. any fellow grower willing to help me out id appreciate it a bunch if i could figure out something to do that isnt drastic measures.id really like to stick to organics even if i have to fight through this grow to make a better medium the next time.oh and the tent is a 4x2. they are under 2 600w mars hydro ts leds about 18 inches from the canopy. thats about all the info i can give :/
View attachment 914076 View attachment 914080 View attachment 914081 View attachment 914077

Aqua Man said:
I'm not a coco grower and trying to stay away from giving advice in coco but...

Stop feeding molasses period. It contains calcium, magnesium sulfur and potassium.

I get your trying to feed microbes but in coco there is no need. It's only beneficial in fully organic grows and it needs to be done right

To me it looks like potassium toxicity from the molasses. Ph is definitely and issue and you want a ph of 5.8-6.2 from my understanding.
I'm not going to even give advice on the rest but my point is.... Stop the molasses

Your pH is too high for Coco, drop it to 5.9 - 6.0

SPARECHANGE · Nov 25, 2019

stoppin drinkin= lockout (sometimes something else/stages)... and ph, is responsible for specific nute lockouts.

Aqua Man · Nov 25, 2019

SmokeSupreme said:
this is all great stuff guys thank you so much ihad a feeling i should drop the ph while in coco but was unsure with the dry amendments. i have been watering once a day until runoff but stopped because the day everything went downhill again it was like they wouldnt drink ANYTHING and their pots were still completely wet and heavy i had to wait two days before watering again and saw the droop which i thought was from overwatering but was unsure just because they so abruptly stopped drinking. i have slowly been dropping the ph (@ 6.5) so far and i will drop it to 6.2 thank you oldskol for the sweet spot. ill cut the molasses and stick to other means of feeding microbes maybe if u guys suggest liquid seaweed once a week? idk i just know its good to keep those microbes fed if anyones got anymore advice on that it would be greatly appreciated as well. and as far as watering goes i know i dont want them to go completely dry killing the microbes so should i just wait until its 50% of the weight when full? should i still water til runoff as well? thank you guys a million times youve cured the headache ive had for the past week and confirmed some thought i already had!

18/6 light cycle the plants will feed the microbes as they do in nature. During lights out they release sugars/starches and other goodies that feed and attract microbial life. There is no need to try and do this for your style of growing. Adding all that extra stuff is going to come back to haunt ya.

SPARECHANGE · Nov 25, 2019

any typical soil grow, u wait til it's dry, to feed/again. do u have a mentor, for ur method? when u get 8 diff answers, with 8 different products, of varying tech... well, sir, i have u at $300, so far and you've solved nothin. plus, seaweed from here, ph adjustors, from that (coffee/lemon/whatever)... next thing u know- you're out another grand, $300 in seeds, just fried another season and nothin to show for it.
hence, my suggestion: a mentor for the style I'm sure ur heavily invested in, already, or take it back to the basics, with rookie nutes and novice, strains... until u/i/we all, better comprehend, what happens to the lightbulb, below the soil, when u flip the switch... and above, as well; metaphorically speaking.
I'd hate to see you get frustrated and quit, with advanced methods and 3k+, in ur teepee... just me. i can b deeply, intrusive. ;(

SmokeSupreme · Nov 25, 2019

Aqua Man said:
18/6 light cycle the plants will feed the microbes as they do in nature. During lights out they release sugars/starches and other goodies that feed and attract microbial life. There is no need to try and do this for your style of growing. Adding all that extra stuff is going to come back to haunt ya.

i usually do 24hours for veg but i could throw the timer on and start giving them some night time sleep. any ideas about the watering with dry amendments? should i still let them dry out? or just half the weight when they are full so i dont kill the microbes? before they were drinking damn near all of it in a day just about then kaput they didnt drink anything for a whole day.

SPARECHANGE · Nov 25, 2019

u stil obsessing and checking every 5min? use bud porn and i an recommend a decent lube, if necessary. obsessing, i tend to do more harm, than good. that's y my garden looks like a telly sovales, montage, atm...

Curling leaves with mag def.

Curling leaves with mag def.

SmokeSupreme

SmokeSupreme

Attachments

SmokeSupreme

SPARECHANGE

SPARECHANGE

Attachments

oldskol4evr

PlumberSoCal

oldskol4evr

SPARECHANGE

Vondank420

SPARECHANGE

Aqua Man

SmokeSupreme

SPARECHANGE

Beachwalker

SPARECHANGE

Aqua Man

SPARECHANGE

SmokeSupreme

SPARECHANGE

Curling leaves with mag def.

Curling leaves with mag def.

SmokeSupreme

SmokeSupreme

Attachments

SmokeSupreme

SPARECHANGE

SPARECHANGE

Attachments

oldskol4evr

PlumberSoCal

oldskol4evr

SPARECHANGE

Vondank420

SPARECHANGE

Aqua Man

SmokeSupreme

SPARECHANGE

Beachwalker

SPARECHANGE

Aqua Man

SPARECHANGE

SmokeSupreme

SPARECHANGE

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency