deep water cultivation

[Lost]

first post on this site! ...so don't flame me, lol

First, whoever wants to pump tank O2 directly into the waater, i'd be pretty concerned about two issues; one, such an approach might screw up your pH because straight oxygen is pretty reactive, and two the shit is seriously flammable. Imagine what might happen if you got your oxygen partial pressure too high in your growshow and the CO2 burner came on! Plants on da MOON, bro! Not pretty.

I believe in keeping things simple, which is why I'm on this thread to begin with. I am designing an RDWC (recirculating deep water culture) system along the lines of the undercurrent, but at lower cost. In the keeping it simple dept, I am considering the use of waterfall style aerators in the control bucket and reservior instead of airstones in every bucket. Thoughts? Also, where might I find an air venturi, since there are a couple places in my circulatory system where one might easily fit?

On to nutes- I am considering either Advanced Nutrients or General Hydro, as both of them purport to be pH balanced, and I don't have the coin to throw down on a lot of testing equipment right now. pH test strips is about as far as I'm able to go for now. Each 5 gallon bucket in my system will be about 3 gallons full, about 12 of them, and along with the 40 gallons or so in the res and the control bucket means a total water quantity of about 80 gallons, give or take. I want to be able to go three weeks between water changes, would accept two. what are your thoughts? Feel free to PM me.

Not a PM, but I really think you need to consider the no airstone idea. A clogged airstone in some of my older fast water rdwc plants caused root issues and the pump was really fast!

What are your motivations behind the no airstone? Its such a beneficial thing, I cannot see the benefit to getting rid of it. Its really tried and true, unless you are going to go NFT, then I would humbily advise against it. :) If its a noise of the pump issue, the danner ap-100's are pretty quiet and cheap!

If you have any design questions I would love to discuss with you what has works in all of my tinkering, and how to implement that in your system. Again my thinking is along the DD's and Current Culture UC systems. :)

 

[Lost]

Oh and welcome to the site!!! +rep for jumping in :)

 

[420Gator]

i know this is a stupid question but could you do O2 enrichment in an aero system? like between waterings have a separate line supplementing oxygen

dwc actually means "dont water culture" cuz u dont have to water by hand

noobs!

 

[Lost]

Gator, The pump and the pyhsical effect of being atomized really help increase do levels. Alot of aero systems have a small res at the bottom with and airstone. There is a commercial on that Im thinking of, that has provisions for that. That way the roots are sitting in a bubbling solution. I can't stress nuff how important good bubbles are..

 

[Genius Genetics]

just thought i would jump in and ask a question,

what do you guys think of the Hydor Ario Submersible Air Pumps instead of airstones

here's some info on them;

No Air stones or tube required!

The innovative aerator ARIO has all the necessary features for the ideal oxygenation of your aquarium / nutrient tank. The exclusive technology and the high quality of the components guarantee a long lasting product.

All ARIOs are manufactured using top quality, non-perishable components (NO membranes). Maintenance is fast and simple. All components are easy to disassemble, clean and rinse and re-assemble.

Fast cleaning and maintenance thanks to the new NO-SAND DISK that helps prevent sand, gravel or small stones from being sucked in the impeller chamber.


Peace
GeniusG :smiley_joint:

 

[Lost]

The issue I saw with them when I checked them out was that the top spins I think. My concern is that the roots would get caught up. I have seen some cool current makers that upi could add a venturi (simply adding an air line into the line after the pump), and I think that done right that could work our well.

 

[Genius Genetics]

no bro the tops dont spin

i've got 1 and the only thing i dont like about them is you have to plug-in every single 1,
so for my 12 dwc buckets i would need to plug in 12 Hydor Air Pumps

just wondered if anyone eles has used them,
the oxy pots come with the Hydor Air Pump now, instead of the standered air pump and airstone.



Peace
GeniusG

 

[Lost]

Oh cool, I'll have to take another look. Yea, plugging them all in is a PITA, :(

 

[ttystikk]

thanks lost, good to be here. I'm just trying to save pump and hose costs, hassle, noise and complexity of having an airstone in every bucket. Since I'm moving a lot of water anyway, why not take advantage of it? If I can aerate with the circulation pump then why do I need a redundant system? I'm planning to run a 40-50 gallon reservior, so I think it would have plenty of volume.

 

[Lost]

Good Luck :)

 

[MIgrow]

I can't drown my girls, are you kidding?, they drink so much it's ridiculous!!!

 

[MIgrow]

Air is KING! Air = Health!

 

[MediMary]

thanks lost, good to be here. I'm just trying to save pump and hose costs, hassle, noise and complexity of having an airstone in every bucket. Since I'm moving a lot of water anyway, why not take advantage of it? If I can aerate with the circulation pump then why do I need a redundant system? I'm planning to run a 40-50 gallon reservior, so I think it would have plenty of volume.

Hey mate, I saw you post, didnt wanna just leave you hanging. I am not one for telling folks what they should or shouldnt do~ just was sharing some thoughts and ideas wasnt saying anything is right or wrong(in every situation).

In my grow thread I was just trying to discuss the nuances of rdwc, since it went south faster than a felon I didnt really get to explain my thoughts on the subject and clarify some of what I was talking about

If you do go without a air pump just ensure that you have significant amounts of water flowing, have to take into consideration how much head, how far the water is pumping, size of growing container, etc, all kinds of things will effect flow rate. If you want to run without a chiller you need to have your environment dialed in first and also run the system for a few days and check your water temps to ensure the water in the system isnt to hot, water temps over 69 = problems, lot of folks will tell you it needs to be lower than that.
I sent you a pm where ill be postin if you want some links, to talk or have any questions. Im not a cannablog master grower or anything though, just a cat that likes to experiment, if I have any problems with the UC this run ill bust the water chiller out super quick. also if you do try and copy a uc system with the larger bore pipe it seems to me that the current design wouldnt do well to doing away with the air pump, so if your trying to build a copy of a UC without running an air pump I think you will run into a lot of problems.
bests wishes my friend


Yo lost, so you thinking about oahu huh :)

 

[Genius Genetics]

The issue I saw with them when I checked them out was that the top spins I think. My concern is that the roots would get caught up. I have seen some cool current makers that upi could add a venturi (simply adding an air line into the line after the pump), and I think that done right that could work our well.

Easy bro, thought i would let you know,

I've just taken a closer look at my Hydor Air Pump and your right,
they do have a little bit that spins round.

so i guess that answers my question and i wont be buyin any more


Peace
GeniusG :smiley_joint:

 

[Lost]

Yo lost, so you thinking about oahu huh :)

Always.. heheheh

 

[Lost]

Hey if you are going to go no airstones, then keep the water levels super low. This will increase flow, because ou are going to need a ton of flow to keep up with the roots needs. Really think of it as a giant nft, and I would add sprayers to the res to keep the dangling roots moist.

 

[MediMary]

Hey if you are going to go no airstones, then keep the water levels super low. This will increase flow, because ou are going to need a ton of flow to keep up with the roots needs. Really think of it as a giant nft, and I would add sprayers to the res to keep the dangling roots moist.

One thing about hawaii is the cost of elecrtic man, FTW.

Here in NM its .11$ a KWH, in hawaii it was .29 -.31$ a KWH(quoting from my memory, hope thats correct).

In my little experiment where I am trying to run an UnderCurrent system without the factory air pumps I was thinking of running the 13 gallon containers about 1/3 of the way full with large bore top feed, implementing a venturi and increasing the circulation pump.
( I initally thought misters as well, but less resistance created with the top bore/less heat.) Will also be "pushing" the flow during Veg and "pulling" during flower. This seems to me like it would be much easier to implement in a small personal grow like mine and not something that would be easily implemented in a commercial grow like jacks or most these cats on the farm.

I personally think the movment created by an air pump is a good thing, just not so great when its pumping out air thats 100+ degrees and your trying to stay away from having to run a water chiller.

I will be using a couple crappy aquarium air pumps, ill take some pictures later so you guys can see the amount of movement these little things create compared to these alita/pondmaster pumps,while only pumping out air thats +2 degrees higher than ambient temps.
(compared to a alita 40 pump pushing air out thats 101 degrees when ambient room temp is only 74)

If you see in the MPB root rot thread where DD's posted up his fail he talks bout lowering the water temps more in the buckets, when talking with DHF he made a good point talking about those who have experienced crop failures even when using chillers .

(condensed and paraphrased a bit)

Proof`s in the pudding bout air pumps and regenerative blowers we usedta use pumpin heat STRAIGHT to the rootzones , and folks just don`t understand when I tell em that bottom container temps can vary GREATLY from rez temps due to hot bubbles blastin up underneath a bigass rootmass on big plants.....

Thanks Medi for sharing a 27 degree difference from the alita 40 compared to ambient temps .....Now do ya`ll see how bottom container temps can cause total crop failure when rez temps seem to be within normal tolerances of 65-69 ?.......

That and lack of flow once rootmass has filled bottom containers is something that HAS to be addressed for any type of regular harvey with RDWC....

 

[TrichromeFan]

Good shit man. I am adding a second pondmaster pump in on this run that's about to launch. I felt the ap100 wasn't enough to really get the dual micropore diffusers in the 5 buckets really going strong. I will try some temperature probe readings after the system is wet, and we can see more about air pump heat output with those pumps, and how it affects the individual buckets.

-TF

 

[MediMary]

Good shit man. I am adding a second pondmaster pump in on this run that's about to launch. I felt the ap100 wasn't enough to really get the dual micropore diffusers in the 5 buckets really going strong. I will try some temperature probe readings after the system is wet, and we can see more about air pump heat output with those pumps, and how it affects the individual buckets.

-TF

The way i see it is, think if you put a cup of water, gallon of water, and 50 gallons of water outside in the sun, the cup will get hot first, followed by the gallon, then the 50 gallons.

So the more water in the system the less the water temps will be effected by the air pump, what concerns me is~ the actual temps at the air stone when roots are laying on top of the air stones, The way I am looking at it is: The airpumps are pumping out hot ass air directly hitting the root mass(before the chilled water has had a chance to cool it down), and in my *opinion* this may be part of the reason folks have crop failures but are unsure of why exactly when temps seemed in the right zone.

The air pump wont change water temps from 74 to a 100+ degrees I am concerned mostly with the hot air(100+degrees) that is being pumped directly to the root zone, not so much the temperate increase of the water(which is obviously important as well, especially when trying to run the system without a chiller.l)

This would be more of an issue when the plants are large(the hot air being pumped to the airstones)
When the plants have a small root zone the bubbles would be chilled before coming in contact with the root zone(at least thats what I am guessing), but when the tub is full of roots it would seem to me a different story.

 

[Lost]

why don't you put your danner somewhere cool? Also are you not pushin nuff air thru your danner causing it to heat up. Try adding twice as many airstones and see if you still have a hot pump. My ap-100 is only slightly warm to the touch, but I have had it get hot when I did not have enuff airstones. (its getting huge pressures inside because it needs to push more air and the few airstones don't let it vent nuff air)