Def in teens and clones from dispensory?

[richdash]

1. Are you growing from seed or clones? Clones
2. How old are your plants? Not sure, Only had them three days
3. How tall are your plants? clones about 8" teens about 2 feet
4. What type of hydro system are you using? flood and drain
5. What brand/type of nutrients are you using? GH Lucas
6. What is the Ph of your nutrient solution? Today adjusted to 5.75
7. What is the PPM/EC of your tap water?80-120
8. What is the PPM/EC of your nutrient solution?560
9. What is the temperature of your nutrient solution?23c
10. Does your PPM/EC show a rise or fall when you do your daily PPM check? Only third day but did rise
11. Does your pH show a rise or fall when you do your daily check? Rise
12. Do you foliar feed or spray your plants with anything? No
13. What kind of lights do you use and how many watts combined? (HPS, MH, fluorescent, halogen, incandescent "plant lights") 8 = 54w T5 6k
14. How close are your lights to the plants? between a foot and two
15. What size is your grow space in square feet? 270
16. What is the temperature and humidity in your grow space? working on this but around 77f and 60 humid
17. Have you noticed any insect activity in your grow space? not yet
18. How much experience do you have growing? not much in years

I picked upa few clones and teens from a collective a few days back. They seem to show some issues and I wanted to get an opinion on how to go about fixing them and bringing them to proper health. I have started them on a half strength locus method of 0-10-5 so actually 0-5-2.5 for veg under T5. I was thinking that I might need to up the nutes now to a full strength.

Clones are in both RW and Coaco. Teens seem to be in rockwoll flock.

Teens - Kens GDP Lots of leaves seem to be yellowish with brown spots. The sick leaves all have purple stems but also seem to be fan leaves. Each day I am seeing more and more of these...

Clones - Several are having some leaves turn yellow and curl...

Lights on 18/6, Feeding 3x daily when lights on with a 15 min flood and drain.

 

[BrianDirt]

I see cal/mag def or lock out on the teens and the clones look somewhat burned but only on the cut leaf! The spotting and the leaf margins tips on the first 2 pics. The clones are not too bad at all, most of the damage it on the cut leaves from the initial clone, They do that to the leafe so the plant uses the mobile nutes in those leave since it is damaged allready.

 

[Seamaiden]

Oh boy. Ok, first, I've never done F&D, never done hydroton, never done rockwool. I have done coir, and in my experience it really locks up calcium, so feeding adjustments must be made.

Now that that's out of the way, I've run a modified Lucas formula before in coir, and I had to add extra calcium. They look overall a bit on the hungry side to me. I would bump up the EC, and I would allow pH to range, both lower and higher, with feeds. They're going to need some N in there somewhere, too, IMO.

The deficiencies I see, in no particular order are: P- (reddened/purpled petioles, when advanced the leaves become a very dark green, then necrosis begins, mid-plant), possible K-, N-, possibly spider mites... One plant's showing possible Mg- (if that leaf with the lighter green 'halo' appearance is one of the lowers, that's your tell), and can imagine a Ca- to come shortly, and... yeah, that's about it.

A mention about this graphic: The Ca is shown under mobile elements, it is an immobile element.

 

[richdash]

Thanks for the fast responses, I really appreciate them. So, since I have only had them three days now should I wait to take more action aside from bumping up the nutes? I am using filtered tap water aslo, I should mention. I am not sure what the collective was using or the nutes. The person at the counter knew hardly anything and was of no use when I had asked. I am going to bump up to the full strength 0-10-5 veg lucas forumla today. Do I add cal/mag even though my tap is rich in calcium already? The filter is filtering chlorine etc I don't believe it removes the c or m.

 

[Seamaiden]

I don't think it removes Ca or Mg, but I am also not sure if your tap water's calcium or magnesium are available for the plants to take up and use. That's the problem, not to mention tap water probably being very resistant to pH shift, aka alkaline.

Do you have anything in your arsenal with some nitrogen in it? That 0-15-5 means you're giving them absolutely no nitrogen, and they need it to grow and function. I know it's a recipe used by many, but the modified formula (a modification of the Big Ricky, actually) has N in it, and I know it gives the girls a fairly complete feed.

 

[Cat Jockey]

They seem to show some issues and I wanted to get an opinion on how to go about fixing them and bringing them to proper health.

They do indeed show some issues. I am assuming they were started in the clay pellets when you got them. This is nothing more than what may be some nice folks at that collective, but, well, I wouldn't consult them for grow advice. Those are plants that were in the wrong pH solution with the wrong proportions of nutrients available. You can see the three balded leaves and some twisted ones. The pale clones, look on my screen (which doesn't always capture the true colors, etc.), like they got a little light burned. Not just from being too close to light, but those clones took a while to root, so it is a partial drying out of plant tissue combined with the light heat.

'Fixing' them is easy. You don't really 'fix' them, as much as give the rootzone the proper conditions going forward, for the new growth that will occur.

I have started them on a half strength locus method of 0-10-5 so actually 0-5-2.5 for veg under T5.

Take this advice or leave it. I strongly urge that you take it. I have nothing against the guy personally, but his nute regiment, The Lucas Formula is an inadequate nutrient regiment. Yet one more thing I will not go into much detail about, arguing the why's, and such.

You are 2/3 of the way there. Go buy the third bottle of the GH 3-Part. Looking at your plants, with your light, with your specific questions, with what you chose for growing (Ebb & Flow - a good flexible system for beginners to experts for smaller grows), here is my opinion, that you asked for:

I really suggest you get an RO filter. You will harvest a better quality bud if you do. You can get one for $150-$200.

Pick up a bottle of DutchMasters Zone. I personally tested this against Roots Excel. about 4 years ago. Not only much cheaper, but I really liked it. Both for the results in the rootzone and how well it worked with the nutrient solution.

Mix the three part in proper proportions at half strength - but a certain way. After you get a good amount of water in your res, add the Micro nutrinets FIRST!!!

Let me repeat that:

ADD MICRO NUTRIENTS TO YOUR RES FIRST. ALWAYS.

You'll fuck up your nutrient solution if you don't. Add in the Zone and Grow and Bloom. Your pH should be in the low 5's; 5.1-5.3. Perfect, throw that pH adjuster shit in the trash - it'll ruin your nute solution too. Let the pH float throughout the week. It should rise. You can let it get up to 6.1 before you dump and change out your res. Or you could change it between 5.9-6.1

If your pH is dropping after you start using a fresh nute solution, you got sumpin' fugged up. Chances are you are not just farming, but ranching - growing some type of something in your res that is eating your plant's nutrients and crapping out pH dropping shit. If you are using Zone, it keeps a res pretty clean.

Top off with just RO water. Dump and replace res every 7-10 days with healthy, growing plants. There are other additives that are beneficial, you can look around and try some. If using GH 3-Part, which is a pretty rock solid, tried and true base nutrient mix to build a regime off of, start out by using one of their additives they sell to help with aromas and such, just because it will work well together and be easy for you to experiment with. Same with any bloom boosters you want to try - error on the side of caution with your light size tough. Better a bit less than the plant can handle than a bit more.

Follow GH instructions for bloom recipe.

There's my opinion, bro or bro-ette.

Last piece of advice is to start some bonsai mothers so you don't have to buy plants that are coming from what looks to be an intermediate, at best, level garden.

 

[Seamaiden]

CJ, love this post. Concisely written, yet complete, appropriate grammar, spelling and punctuation so it's easily understood, and you use page breaks! Not to mention, the advice is pretty solid, though I haven't used DM Zone it's good to know that someone's done a comparison and can speak directly. I've taken some good notes just from this one post, thank you.

 

[Cat Jockey]

CJ, love this post. Concisely written, yet complete, appropriate grammar, spelling and punctuation so it's easily understood, and you use page breaks! Not to mention, the advice is pretty solid, though I haven't used DM Zone it's good to know that someone's done a comparison and can speak directly. I've taken some good notes just from this one post, thank you.

Yea, sometimes I do the Catholic Nuns proud. I often make up my own words and grammar to annoy them too, and my spelling and proofreading skills, well ...

I take pride in your notice of my page breaks - I am a loquacious, long-winded bastard and those are key to not drowning people in unreadable text.

As far as Zone, good stuff. Way cheaper than Roots Excel. I never dissected the root system of any dirt plants I used it on, but in both Ebb & Flow and RDWC, it definitely provided bigger, fluffier roots. And, as I mentioned, did a great job to help keep the res healthy and worked easily with the base nutes I like to work with. It was also, when mixed with DM's surficant, a 100% eradicator of the White Demon, Powdery Mildew, as well as killing any living mites and eggs.

I used to dip every cutting in a mix of this, and completely removed PM from adult plants I had taken in from other gardens through a foilar spray of the mix - you Cali folks sent a whole bunch 'o PM our way 4-5 years ago. But, DM changed the recipe for both Zone and their surficant a few years ago, and that treatment was no longer 100%, although they did a good job improving the recipes for their intended purpose.

I am also a big fan of DM's surficant and their foilar products - I think that is their real strong point as a nutrient manufacturer. They just also happen to have a good root zone conditioner in addition to their foilar products.