Deficiency I Can't Seem To Identify

[DGP]

I have looked a lot at these leaves under a microscope so i don't see bugs. I have searched and reviewed the deficiency charts as well but IDK. Only 1 plant is showing this and she is the biggest, fastest growing one so that is why I assume it is a deficiency as she is huge and putting on weight faster than any of the others. Leaves are pointing up like they are happy and no droop whatsoever. Other than these discoloration patterns on the leaves the plant looks very happy, roots are fine, water smells fresh and so on.

Survey questions below the pictures....

Thanks in advance,

Dee

Hydro Growers:
1. Are you growing from seed or clones?
Seed (sorted F2)

2. How old are your plants?
4th week of flower (6 weeks since flip)

3. How tall are your plants?
~36"

4. What type of hydro system are you using?
RDWC Undercurrent

5. What brand/type of nutrients are you using?
Jack's Hydro pro, Cal Nit, Epsom (3-2-1)

6. What is the Ph of your nutrient solution?
5.8

7. What is the PPM/EC of your tap water?
50

8. What is the PPM/EC of your nutrient solution?
750

9. What is the temperature of your nutrient solution?
67-68 (chiller)

10. Does your PPM/EC show a rise or fall when you do your daily PPM check?
very little change day to day

11. Does your pH show a rise or fall when you do your daily check?
falling very slowly over time, 6.0 falling to 5.8 over a week or so

12. Do you foliar feed or spray your plants with anything?
no

13. What kind of lights do you use and how many watts combined? (HPS, MH, fluorescent, halogen, incandescent "plant lights")
750 watts (12 COBs) 60W/ sq ft

14. How close are your lights to the plants?
12-16"

15. What size is your grow space in square feet?
~24 ft sq

16. What is the temperature and humidity in your grow space?
78 daytime 50-25%, 65 night 45%

17. Have you noticed any insect activity in your grow space?
no

18. How much experience do you have growing?
3 years

 

[MrGreenGreen]

I'm no hydro expert but how much are u letting pH swing? I believe you need to allow the swing to go through optimal nutrient uptake. I believe you should be starting around 6.5. This is where maximim calcium uptake happens and im not seeing you there.

 

[DGP]

My ph usually starts out higher (at a water change) of say 6.2-6.3 but then falls off over time. The 6 plants I have are drinking about 2-3 gallons a day out of the top off reservoir.

I was suscpicious regarding a ca deficiency but wasn't too sure. I have calmag in the grow I can use but nothing that is just cal. I am also reluctant in general to start adding this or that before really understanding what is happening cause I see myself making it worse or just complication the problem.

Thanks

Dee

 

[DGP]

Also, I hate to jack around with adding PH up to see if tht is the problem (hate t chase ph around) but maybe since I am almost due for a water change I could do that and it would naturally bring the ph back up into the cal range.....I am about due for a change out anyway. I know some people don't do water changes in hydro if the plants are using water at a high level cause the water gets replenished so often but I am not sure where I stand on that one and also wonder about salt accumulation.

 

[jumpincactus]

I always let my ph swing. I agree it covers all the nutrient bases both macro and micro.

To your question, I didn't see at what stage your grow is in. How far in are you? veg or flower.

Also if you are due for a rez change you may find that this may halt the coloration you are seeing in the leaves with a new rez of fresh nutes...... By your pics if you are starting a nute deficiency it is minor at this point and this will be addressed by a rez change.

PS if more growers thought like you there would be more killer bud out there. Meaning I like your thinking of actually knowing whats up before throwing a bunch of fixes without knowing wassup. As so many peeps do and end up making matters worse....... Props +++ for that attitude:D

 

[DGP]

I always let my ph swing. I agree it covers all the nutrient bases both macro and micro.

To your question, I didn't see at what stage your grow is in. How far in are you? veg or flower.

Also if you are due for a rez change you may find that this may halt the coloration you are seeing in the leaves with a new rez of fresh nutes...... By your pics if you are starting a nute deficiency it is minor at this point and this will be addressed by a rez change.

PS if more growers thought like you there would be more killer bud out there. Meaning I like your thinking of actually knowing whats up before throwing a bunch of fixes without knowing wassup. As so many peeps do and end up making matters worse....... Props +++ for that attitude:D

Thanks for the positive feedback. In my original post I filled out the form questions near the end of the post but I am in week 4 of visible flower and week 6 after flip.

Dee

 

[DGP]

Think I will do a water change tonight when the lights come back on. Will start with a ph maybe up around 6.3 to 6.5 then let it fall naturally. I hate to chase ph anyway.

Dee

 

[stonestacker]

I don't nor have I ever run RDWC. In my DTW when I see the rusty looking spots like that. I increase my clasnit by 50 ppm's and my epsom by 10 t0 15 ppm's (cal mag) But imo you are in week 6 and that is roughly when I start cutting back on my cal mag because I find it helps with the harshness. In other words my meds are a lot better tasting when I let them turn colors later in flower and not give the extra cal mag. Have you run this strain before?
I start counting at the flip and run 70 days +or-. Do you run 56 days from bud setting?

 

[DGP]

I don't nor have I ever run RDWC. In my DTW when I see the rusty looking spots like that. I increase my clasnit by 50 ppm's and my epsom by 10 t0 15 ppm's (cal mag) But imo you are in week 6 and that is roughly when I start cutting back on my cal mag because I find it helps with the harshness. In other words my meds are a lot better tasting when I let them turn colors later in flower and not give the extra cal mag. Have you run this strain before?
I start counting at the flip and run 70 days +or-. Do you run 56 days from bud setting?

I am 6 weeks from flip and the hybrid is cheesequake X cheesequake (f2) and is supposed to be an 8 week flower cycle. When people say 8 weeks I used to think that was literal....8 weeks from flip but then I wonder if it is 8 weeks from visible flower or showing sex.....Have never been sure on that one. What is clasnit?

Last time they seemed to finish early but I think it was 7 weeks after flip but this cycle I am taking impeccable notes. Also, this cycle have instrumentation running that is logging ppm, ph, temp, humidity, light intensity, light height, power consumption, water temps....24/7. Next cycle will have not only data logging but nute injection and other feedback controls so I will have a permanent record of every aspect of the environment over the full cycle.

Thanks,

Dee

 

[stonestacker]

Sorry calcium nitrate.
Lol now I see, I don't believe a breeder with the claim of 56 day.

 

[DGP]

Sorry calcium nitrate.
Lol now I see, I don't believe a breeder with the claim of 56 day.

Yeah, skepticism when it comes to marketing:)

So, I am using Jacks pro with Cal nitrate and epsom. 3-2-1 gram to the gallon. What ratio do you think I should go to at this stage (say if I was to do a water change).

If I don't change out the water I can try your suggestion of increasing the CaN and Epsom ppm.

Appreciate the advice,

Dee

 

[stonestacker]

I wouldn't know how with Jacks. I would be tempted to up your ppms of jacks by 50 then add 10-15 ppm's of epsom.
That Jag you are driving reacts very fast. Remember I have NO experience with that beast. Take my advise with cushion. You might be better off listening to @jumpincactus .

 

[DGP]

I find the UC system to be quite easy to manage. The only thing is an occassional issue like in this post but most of the time it is downright boring. With a top off reservoir I hardly have to do anything and as long as I don't make radical sudden changes it stays quite stable. I just follow Current Cultures recommended setup and specs and it typically just purrs along.

Dee

 

[Scolymia7]

I read you thread on how you set your system up. Awesome dyi build btw, looks clean and well put together.

All your current is focused on the bottom part of each bucket, maybe dead zones from water turnover being low towards the top part of root zone? I did see clear tubing over the top but they look to be 1/4 inch. Theye wouldn't allow alot of flow towards top of bucket

Maybe open each buck and scoop water sample from the top part and see if all numbers are the same as your control bucket. If there are variations you may just have dead zones causing defincies.

Happy Growing :)

 

[DGP]

I read you thread on how you set your system up. Awesome dyi build btw, looks clean and well put together.

All your current is focused on the bottom part of each bucket, maybe dead zones from water turnover being low towards the top part of root zone? I did see clear tubing over the top but they look to be 1/4 inch. Theye wouldn't allow alot of flow towards top of bucket

Maybe open each buck and scoop water sample from the top part and see if all numbers are the same as your control bucket. If there are variations you may just have dead zones causing defincies.

Happy Growing :)

The way UC works is it pulls the water out of the center of the 2" pipe out on the far end (farthest from the control bucket) which pulls the water out of the buckets at over 700 GPH through the chiller and back into the control bucket dropping it in in a waterfall type return. Then the buckets refill from the control bucket at the base. The water moves pretty fast so I don't think there are dead zones and my system works identical to a Current Culture one it is just about $3500 less for an 8 site. Each bucket also has an airstone. Don't think there are any dead spots but the buckets can get pretty root-bound but the system is pulling so much water I think it works out fine. From the research I have done it seems like UC's can grow plants faster than most systems given other parameters being equal. So far I have never seen trunk sizes and root development like this.

The trunks on my plants which were vegged 4-5 weeks (from seed to flip) are 5 or more inches in diameter and I have tap roots the size of an index finger.

So far other than a few issues now and then it seems to be rockin it. I just want to understand wht the symptom is on the one plant before it gets away from me.

Dee

 

[jumpincactus]

I read you thread on how you set your system up. Awesome dyi build btw, looks clean and well put together.

All your current is focused on the bottom part of each bucket, maybe dead zones from water turnover being low towards the top part of root zone? I did see clear tubing over the top but they look to be 1/4 inch. Theye wouldn't allow alot of flow towards top of bucket

Maybe open each buck and scoop water sample from the top part and see if all numbers are the same as your control bucket. If there are variations you may just have dead zones causing defincies.

Happy Growing :)

That my friend is an excellent suggestion. :cool:

 

[jumpincactus]

Thanks for the positive feedback. In my original post I filled out the form questions near the end of the post but I am in week 4 of visible flower and week 6 after flip.

Dee

Its not uncommon to see some leaf coloration change as she heads towards senescence. Sorry I missed the details....... :( is it a 8,10 or 12 week strain? BTW nice setup you assembled.....

 

[DGP]

Its not uncommon to see some leaf coloration change as she heads towards senescence. Sorry I missed the details....... :( is it a 8,10 or 12 week strain? BTW nice setup you assembled.....

Tanks Mon, it is supposed to be an 8 week flower cycle. I just checked my daily journal and I am 5.5 weeks from flip. Now it is showing in the second biggest plant as well. I am not freaking out or anything, just want to make sure I don't miss an important symptom or change. Maybe it is not worth worrying about but I did change the water and hit 6.2 ph and I probably will change my nute balance a little towards the cal and mag side for now. Neither change should create an unnecessary issue but then again it may not fix the problem either. Going up on ph should allow some other absorption of cetain minerals that wouldn't happen staying at 5.8 and I'll let it drift back down as it usually does as they drink.

Dee

 

[PhatNuggz]

FLIP: IMHO the ONLY way to accurately tell when plant has engaged is when I see first pistils

How often do you check pH meter. Mine drifts in < 2 weeks

 

[GT21]

I don't nor have I ever run RDWC. In my DTW when I see the rusty looking spots like that. I increase my clasnit by 50 ppm's and my epsom by 10 t0 15 ppm's (cal mag) But imo you are in week 6 and that is roughly when I start cutting back on my cal mag because I find it helps with the harshness. In other words my meds are a lot better tasting when I let them turn colors later in flower and not give the extra cal mag. Have you run this strain before?
I start counting at the flip and run 70 days +or-. Do you run 56 days from bud setting?

Buds taste better with a fade... Hmmmm i think youre on to something