Deficiency/lockout problems in coco with synthetic nutrients

Juicejk · Jan 31, 2020

Hello everyone,

I’ve been trying to get my grow dialed in but unfortunately I have not had the best experience so far.
growing in coco/perlite 75/25 ratio using 1 gallon fabric pots on 5 out of the 7 plants I have.Light is 4 hlg qb120 hooked to an hlg 240 driver. Temps have been 73-79 during the day and 68-72 during lights off. I did a foliar neem spray for pest prevention on Monday before the lights came on. I think I might have fed too high of EC for a few feedings. A few of the plants have red/purple on top of the petioles and the ones that are turning red and looking weak and drooping. I have pictures of the leaves. I wonder if I have a lockout going on. Ph has been 5.7-6.1. I have been feeding once a day until I get 10-20% runoff. I was doing 3.5ml of base a and b, 4-5ml of calmag, 1ml of plant enzymes, 1ml of golden tree and 3-5 ml of silica. I had increased from 3.5 of the base nutrients to 4.5-5 ml over the past week raising a little at a time. I fed with recharge on Monday too. I tested the runoff of a couple plants and the EC was way higher than it has been and I have fed at 450-500 ppm or .9-1.0 ec but my runoff today was 2.0 ec. Should I flush with weak nutrient solution to get the EC back to normal range to try to recover from this lockout? I’ve been trying to figure out what to do. The plants are in their night cycle right now but when the lights come on I will have to feed and I’m just trying to figure out a game plan. Any help would be greatly appreciated

Nugg · Jan 31, 2020

Isn't it a feed,water,water,feed..or feed,water,feed... someone in coco will help,but I know it's not feed,feed,feed,...

Juicejk · Jan 31, 2020

I’ve read from experienced coco growers to never ever feed coco with plain water without nutrients. That’s what it says in the coco for cannabis book I have and I’ve read hundreds of forum posts that also say not to feed plain distilled or RO water. But I’ve never tried it so maybe it would help.

Nugg · Jan 31, 2020

Ph'd water... don't worry, someone good will chime in soon, maybe I'm just thinking of a flush..

Seraphine · Jan 31, 2020

My set up is almost identical to yours except I use different nutrients.

Stick with your base nutrients only for now. Once you get that dialed in with your base, then introduce your supplements(over kill in my opinion).

Feed daily, lower EC if needed.

Reduce cal-mag to 2.5ml per gallon. Too much calcium will lock out magnesium and other nutrients which is probably what happened to you. I would also just slightly increase your pH range, keep it 5.8 -6.2.

Seraphine · Jan 31, 2020

I would flush with your base nutrients with 2.5ml cal mag @ 6.0pH. That will reset you.

Juicejk · Jan 31, 2020

Thank you so much! I will definitely flush with your recommended amounts of each. I’m so glad you said that because now that you mention it. I thought I had magnesium deficiency and I upped the calmag earlier this week and the problems have gotten much worse. Wow that makes a lot of sense. I’ve been researching and thinking all day today and I read several times that too much calmag can make everything worse. I appreciate the help so much!

oldskol4evr · Jan 31, 2020

Juicejk said:
I’ve read from experienced coco growers to never ever feed coco with plain water without nutrients. That’s what it says in the coco for cannabis book I have and I’ve read hundreds of forum posts that also say not to feed plain distilled or RO water. But I’ve never tried it so maybe it would help.

your correct but not,feeding with water means water and cal mag thats considered watering

oldskol4evr · Jan 31, 2020

Juicejk said:
Hello everyone,

I’ve been trying to get my grow dialed in but unfortunately I have not had the best experience so far.
growing in coco/perlite 75/25 ratio using 1 gallon fabric pots on 5 out of the 7 plants I have.Light is 4 hlg qb120 hooked to an hlg 240 driver. Temps have been 73-79 during the day and 68-72 during lights off. I did a foliar neem spray for pest prevention on Monday before the lights came on. I think I might have fed too high of EC for a few feedings. A few of the plants have red/purple on top of the petioles and the ones that are turning red and looking weak and drooping. I have pictures of the leaves. I wonder if I have a lockout going on. Ph has been 5.7-6.1. I have been feeding once a day until I get 10-20% runoff. I was doing 3.5ml of base a and b, 4-5ml of calmag, 1ml of plant enzymes, 1ml of golden tree and 3-5 ml of silica. I had increased from 3.5 of the base nutrients to 4.5-5 ml over the past week raising a little at a time. I fed with recharge on Monday too. I tested the runoff of a couple plants and the EC was way higher than it has been and I have fed at 450-500 ppm or .9-1.0 ec but my runoff today was 2.0 ec. Should I flush with weak nutrient solution to get the EC back to normal range to try to recover from this lockout? I’ve been trying to figure out what to do. The plants are in their night cycle right now but when the lights come on I will have to feed and I’m just trying to figure out a game plan. Any help would be greatly appreciated

with all that added in i sure dont see how you maintain 450 ppm ,from looks of growth your number is right for 450,but that silica raise the roof with your ph imo

Juicejk · Jan 31, 2020

oldskol4evr said:
with all that added in i sure dont see how you maintain 450 ppm ,from looks of growth your number is right for 450,but that silica raise the roof with your ph imo

Oh sorry I kind of didn’t write the feedings exactly correct. I was at like 450-500 ppm and then I upped my dosages by .5ml every other day throughout this week until I hit like 600-620 was the highest ppm or 1.2ec. I dropped my feeding back down to 500 then 450 for the last feed they had. The silica does raise the ph a lot but that’s why I add it in first and then add ph down until I hit 5.8. That’s what the guys from Cannabis lifestyle tv said to do. And wizard npk too. But you are correct with full 5ml dose of the calmag and iron plus 5ml of base a and b is closer to 600 ppm or 1.2 ec. I use distilled water that is 0ppm so I thought I needed the full dose of calmag and I thought since the plants were getting bigger that I should try to increase up slowly but I have heard so much about how coco robs your plants of calmag so I thought I needed full 5ml

Juicejk · Jan 31, 2020

oldskol4evr said:
your correct but not,feeding with water means water and cal mag thats considered watering

Oh okay. So you flush with just water and calmag when your runoff is too high?

oldskol4evr · Jan 31, 2020

Juicejk said:
Oh sorry I kind of didn’t write the feedings exactly correct. I was at like 450-500 ppm and then I upped my dosages by .5ml every other day throughout this week until I hit like 600-620 was the highest ppm or 1.2ec. I dropped my feeding back down to 500 then 450 for the last feed they had. The silica does raise the ph a lot but that’s why I add it in first and then add ph down until I hit 5.8. That’s what the guys from Cannabis lifestyle tv said to do. And wizard npk too. But you are correct with full 5ml dose of the calmag and iron plus 5ml of base a and b is closer to 600 ppm or 1.2 ec. I use distilled water that is 0ppm so I thought I needed the full dose of calmag and I thought since the plants were getting bigger that I should try to increase up slowly but I have heard so much about how coco robs your plants of calmag so I thought I needed full 5ml

pictures are over the top of plants,so i cant really tell i need profile view,but them plants look early veg to me and 300 to 400 is early veg full veg is 450 to 700 your not there yet.
i will say this all the stuff your adding in is gonna wind up in a wreck for you,ive grown great flowers with coco and botanicare pro thats it,more additive more problems always is until you really understand how to use them.
take some water you normally feed same amount and cut all you been putting in there by half strength see what you come up with,you are correct with the silica being first,but why add it,with training of pinching and tieing you dont need it,plus most put the plant in cages anyway,i dont and wont use it just more crap to get out in the end near harvest,but just as you have been same mix cut by half and tell me what the ph and ppm is

oldskol4evr · Jan 31, 2020

Juicejk said:
Oh okay. So you flush with just water and calmag when your runoff is too high?

i do if i had too,i never had too,i dont force feed them ,my point im trying to swing your way,you can force feed the plant all you want but that not gonna bring out the sugar you see and wont unless the genetics are there for it,a product alone wont do that,but if i had to flush yes ph water with calmag be what i did,your looking for about 200 ppm difrence coming out ,the closer you have whats going in to coming out the better,but you can get by with 200 difrence.
so with what you got id do 6.2 ph and 250 ppm cal mag and roll with that,those leaves that are already screwed up arent gonna get better so watch the new growth

Juicejk · Jan 31, 2020

oldskol4evr said:
pictures are over the top of plants,so i cant really tell i need profile view,but them plants look early veg to me and 300 to 400 is early veg full veg is 450 to 700 your not there yet.
i will say this all the stuff your adding in is gonna wind up in a wreck for you,ive grown great flowers with coco and botanicare pro thats it,more additive more problems always is until you really understand how to use them.
take some water you normally feed same amount and cut all you been putting in there by half strength see what you come up with,you are correct with the silica being first,but why add it,with training of pinching and tieing you dont need it,plus most put the plant in cages anyway,i dont and wont use it just more crap to get out in the end near harvest,but just as you have been same mix cut by half and tell me what the ph and ppm is

I definitely see the logic in what you are saying. I’m going to take your advice and cut the additives out for the rest of this grow until I get some more experience. You are right. Why complicate it too much? I really appreciate everybody that has responded to me I don’t think you know how much it helps me to get some advice because I spend so much time searching online but not finding the right questions or answers and it’s been stressing me out. And that is a good point about all of the cages and bamboo sticks and lots of things to help hold up branches. I know I’m not going to flower all 7 of these plants. I was planning to take the better pheno of each of these strains to flower and maybe taking clones of the others. The only reason I was really adding the golden tree and enzymes and silica is because it all came with the starter kit but I feel like the Recharge and the enzymes and golden tree have just been making it harder for this first grow

Juicejk · Jan 31, 2020

oldskol4evr said:
i do if i had too,i never had too,i dont force feed them ,my point im trying to swing your way,you can force feed the plant all you want but that not gonna bring out the sugar you see and wont unless the genetics are there for it,a product alone wont do that,but if i had to flush yes ph water with calmag be what i did,your looking for about 200 ppm difrence coming out ,the closer you have whats going in to coming out the better,but you can get by with 200 difrence.
so with what you got id do 6.2 ph and 250 ppm cal mag and roll with that,those leaves that are already screwed up arent gonna get better so watch the new growth

What do you mean by force feeding? Do you use organic amendments or something? The new growth already looks a lot better than it did last night after I backed from 600ppm to 450ppm. But I have done hours and hours of research on what ec or ppm to feed for the plants and I’ve come across so much conflicting info. Lots of people say they feed 600-800 in veg. The coco for cannabis book I have says to feed 1.1-1.2 ec for early veg. So it’s hard to know what to go with I have been figuring everything out the entire time. I haven’t had advice from anybody until today

Juicejk · Jan 31, 2020

My plants started week 5 yesterday since they popped out of the medium. I germinated the seeds on New Year’s Eve

oldskol4evr · Jan 31, 2020

Juicejk said:
I definitely see the logic in what you are saying. I’m going to take your advice and cut the additives out for the rest of this grow until I get some more experience. You are right. Why complicate it too much? I really appreciate everybody that has responded to me I don’t think you know how much it helps me to get some advice because I spend so much time searching online but not finding the right questions or answers and it’s been stressing me out. And that is a good point about all of the cages and bamboo sticks and lots of things to help hold up branches. I know I’m not going to flower all 7 of these plants. I was planning to take the better pheno of each of these strains to flower and maybe taking clones of the others. The only reason I was really adding the golden tree and enzymes and silica is because it all came with the starter kit but I feel like the Recharge and the enzymes and golden tree have just been making it harder for this first grow

i use the golden tree it is some stanky shit,but has a purpose enzyms too,by no means am i saying lay them down,but understand them first,best thing i can tell you to do as i have many before you,take a glass or cup and how ever many bottles of stuff you use or want to use ,make that many cups,same amount of water in each cup,check ph and ppm of that water,write it down,the take 1ml of each product and check both ph and ppm of each product in there seperate glass ,then you know what you have and what it does to your over all numbers if you dig,you can take some of those difrent products and use as ph up or down,take cal mag for example,raises ph right,so that said and reason i mentioned to take your regular mix and cut the nutes by half and check them is because losing the silica alone will drop the ph.
another example ,i was doing a hydro grow outside past summerin a 33 gal trash can,do you realize how hard changing that res water was with a watermelon plant coming out of it and growing into a tressil on a wall,didint happen but 1 time and i figured that shit out,the same way i describe with the glasses,so every other day i had to top off 5 gal of mix,i check the ppm which is minerals ,food,then check the ph,so if my ph was running low id add cal nit or if plant was yellowing,mag sulfate,when i added the food the ph dropped a lot,so ph low i give a little more food,if im not as green as i want to be i drop the food and add mag,you see what im doing there,im using the actual feed program to rise and lower my ph topping off 5 gal every 2 days was damn sure easier than dumping and restoring a 33 gal res every couple weeks lmao

oldskol4evr · Jan 31, 2020

Juicejk said:
What do you mean by force feeding? Do you use organic amendments or something? The new growth already looks a lot better than it did last night after I backed from 600ppm to 450ppm. But I have done hours and hours of research on what ec or ppm to feed for the plants and I’ve come across so much conflicting info. Lots of people say they feed 600-800 in veg. The coco for cannabis book I have says to feed 1.1-1.2 ec for early veg. So it’s hard to know what to go with I have been figuring everything out the entire time. I haven’t had advice from anybody until today

bunkerking · Jan 31, 2020

Nugg said:
Isn't it a feed,water,water,feed..or feed,water,feed... someone in coco will help,but I know it's not feed,feed,feed,...

It's feed feed feed.

oldskol4evr · Jan 31, 2020

Juicejk said:
My plants started week 5 yesterday since they popped out of the medium. I germinated the seeds on New Year’s Eve

could you eat candy when you were 5 weeks old?all that extra stuff your using besides the base is candy and it is force feeding,in veg especailly,it dont need all that

Deficiency/lockout problems in coco with synthetic nutrients

Deficiency/lockout problems in coco with synthetic nutrients

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