Defol Bs Or ...?

[PhatNuggz]

I first read about defoliation about a year ago, and as per typical close-minded people, he was ridiculed. I found it worth trying, and was encouraged. A few defols later I learned that it should be done twice, first time when first pistils appear, the again 20 days later. So I did that last grow, and have done so to 2/3 same seed strains this grow, when it hit me....

2 plants are under the same light getting fed from the same rez, so why not what not do a side by side. The 2 plants are similar enough to let you see and decide for yourself

Should I fail to keep up here you an follow along at my Hail Hydro thread

Pic 1 & 2 are the same strain under an Amare SE 250 (250w), she is bigger in her own tent, just had 2nd defol 2days ago

Pics 3-5 are under an Amare P 3 (300w)

 

[Hazehunta420]

I'm a newb but from what I've read and heard sativas should be left and indicas defold? I trimmed my current purple haze but because of a nitro toxicity that some leaves couldn't recover from, now looks an in between of yours, narrow top & bush bottom. It has helped but i couldn't say definitively if that was down to trimming or ill health.

 

[PhatNuggz]

Indicas a shorter with closer internodes and more/bigger wider leafs, which effectively shades the lower bud sites.

This strain is G 13 x White Widow, of the two under the P3, one is a bit 'more' indica than the other

 

[DemonTrich]

I rarely ever remove any fan leaves. Fan leaves are the solar panels of a plant. No solar panels, no way for the plant to absorb light and grow. I let the plant naturally drop any fans in my garden.

 

[Hazehunta420]

Yeah the left one looks slightly wider however they both look healthy, I'll be keeping watch good topic to compare thanks

 

[MIMedGrower]

This is not how defoliation is supposed to be used. It is a technique to help bud up a dense room with many close plants. It is also to increase the airflow through the thick canopy. There is no point if the plants are not dense leaved and getting plenty of light like the 2 you show. In your case the plant with leaves would win. If they were actually the same plant so you could tell anything. Without identical clones. There is no actual side by side experiment.

Sorry. Techniques are used for reasons. The only place anyone even has this sort of argument is Internet forums. I feel strongly to not help propogate myths. Especially misguided forum myths.

 

[Hazehunta420]

So unless necessary don't defoliate? I've seen so much mixed information on different posts and forums. I feel I absolutely had to but for future reference don't touch?

 

[MIMedGrower]

So unless necessary don't defoliate? I've seen so much mixed information on different posts and forums. I feel I absolutely had to but for future reference don't touch?

Each grow and room are unique. You have to find the style and techniques that suit you and your room. And your plants of course.

 

[icanfarm]

Only remove what absolutely has to go bottom third of the plant in my grows .a few shade leaves if they are sick or blocking light. but I run a lot of wall fans and move a lot of air if I couldn't I'd defol just what I absolutely had to.more light to leaf surface more energy , more uptake ,bigger stronger plants less staking less susceptibility to bug mold . Less stress
I used to do the strip them down method.
Once again this is just the way I choose .I in no way think I'm a (expert,master grower) or ever will be.one doesn't master a living thing . Just how my style has evolved .

 

[MIMedGrower]

I have read many times that removing more than 15% plant matter by pruning or defoliation causes stress. In my experience the less stress and healthier a plant grows through a whole cycle from seed to harvest the more it can reach its potential. More potency, complexity and flavor the healthier it is. (And not too faded at finish but that's the other common argument about flushing).

Conversely I have seen nutrient or otherwise stressed plants in my garden develop amazing amounts of resin glands but they never turn out to have equal potency, complexity or flavor. Just a lot of frost.

So my main concern is happy plants and doing as little as possible to inhibit them as best as it fits in my available space. The different techniques and methods all have their place. They are tools to be used when needed. Not tricks that make plants perform better.

Just my opinion and experience but hope it is helpful. :-)

 

[DemonTrich]

 

[MIMedGrower]

View attachment 676356

I almost expected you to show that. But you are doing it to make different plants work with your system and fixed lights no?

And you throw away any sensitive plants. Which I have to say is a huge mistake rather than practice growing them. They are almost always more potent or interesting. Just like us weirdos stand out in a group. Lol.

 

[DemonTrich]

I defoliate like that even when I staked under 3x600. Larf takes up needed plant energy to grow "garbage" below vs big buds up top. I only keep strains that my patients and I deem worthy.

Every spot under my main lights is worth 1100.00. If a strain can't meet that demand (200/oz =5.5oz min), it gets booted to side lighting only.

 

[Hazehunta420]

I have read many times that removing more than 15% plant matter by pruning or defoliation causes stress. In my experience the less stress and healthier a plant grows through a whole cycle from seed to harvest the more it can reach its potential. More potency, complexity and flavor the healthier it is. (And not too faded at finish but that's the other common argument about flushing).

Conversely I have seen nutrient or otherwise stressed plants in my garden develop amazing amounts of resin glands but they never turn out to have equal potency, complexity or flavor. Just a lot of frost.

So my main concern is happy plants and doing as little as possible to inhibit them as best as it fits in my available space. The different techniques and methods all have their place. They are tools to be used when needed. Not tricks that make plants perform better.

Just my opinion and experience but hope it is helpful. :)

Just switched on to find she's hermied, pulled the sacs I could see and pollinated 2 lower sites see if I can get a few seeds to save for another time

 

[DemonTrich]

Hermies produce just that, more hermies.

 

[MIMedGrower]

I defoliate like that even when I staked under 3x600. Larf takes up needed plant energy to grow "garbage" below vs big buds up top. I only keep strains that my patients and I deem worthy.

Every spot under my main lights is worth 1100.00. If a strain can't meet that demand (200/oz =5.5oz min), it gets booted to side lighting only.

I get dense nugs to the bottom of any well bred plant. Only this newer craft and clone only stuff seems to do that in my room.

I also am averaging over 2oz. per gallon of soil in my pots. I attribute this to well bred genetics as well as grower practices. But it took 2 years of practice not to cause stamen on the most potent plants and to get to the current yield.

You will never have the highest quality product if you follow the commercial cash cropper ideas. Or trash more difficult to grow phenos and plants.

Growing to the highest yield is much easier than the highest quality. We need the highest quality to cure our illnesses. Not the highest tested THC or the biggest yield per plant. Neither of those things exist in the best plants with the right balance of cannabanoids.

 

[MIMedGrower]

Hermies produce just that, more hermies.

This is still just not true at all unless you started with poorly bred genetics or you have stresses that caused them in the first place remaining.

And the best plants have the tendency because the land race sativas that makes the best plants do it regularly. So the better the pot is in a sativa heavy hybrid. More likely to have sativa tendencies.

It is always stress caused in my room. And always correctable.

 

[HydroGuy]

Going to have to agree with @MIMedGrower on that defoliation is really only necessary in a extremely dense canopy. Even then its not always necessary. In my hydro room i have about a 2.5 foot deep canopy you can barely see through and i have fully developed buds all the way down the plant. Proper lighting, pruning and air flow will do more for you than defoliation ever will. You are definitely doing more harm than good defoliating 2 small plants in a closet.

 

[DemonTrich]

@MIMedGrower
Im still super butt hurt at the shitty genetics a certain "connoisseur" genetics conpany sells. This was about 2 yrs ago.

 

[MIMedGrower]

@MIMedGrower
Im still super butt hurt at the shitty genetics a certain "connoisseur" genetics conpany sells. This was about 2 yrs ago.

I know brother. I'm still pretty sore at greenhouse seeds for their color coded mixed trash packs.

And I am pretty unhappy with the supposedly top shelf Oregon Classic Seeds Headband. My favorite dispensary strain basically looking and tasting like shit. Half buds. Half stringy larf right next to perfectly buffed up plants.