Defoliate or not defoliate that's the question

darklordmelkor · Mar 15, 2023

Hello all.

Growing God's Glue photos. First photos tho. Used to not defoliate autos. And i can say that first indica experiment for this grow. It's very bushy and wide but very short :) One of them is runt tho. We are in week 5 (day 33 since breaking soil). I am planning to keep them 3 more weeks because i want to fill that trellis as much as i can. I am not sure if i can fill 75% of it because these are not tall plants. Very short and bushy.

So question is should i defoliate or not? Should i do it now or wait til week before than flipping 12/12 ? I was thinking defoliate+lolipop them before flipping but i just want to know some pro thoughts. Thanks.

If more information needed; 18/6 with 1000w hps. Giving them 40-45k lux now. EC 1.2 - 1.4 pH 6.3. Peat soil. Using biocanna rhizo, vega and adding some calmag (1mL for 1LT water). Humidity bit low around 40-45.

mysticepipedon · Mar 15, 2023

I only have a little experience with SCROG, but this looks like a strain where you just need a lot more plants to fill the space, no matter what method you use.

I think @TSD is a dedicated SCROG grower. She might be able to guide you on this. But I think it will take forever for this strain/cross to do what you want it to do.

Looks great, BTW.

darklordmelkor · Mar 15, 2023

mysticepipedon said:
I only have a little experience with SCROG, but this looks like a strain where you just need a lot more plants to fill the space, no matter what method you use.

I think @TSD is a dedicated SCROG grower. She might be able to guide you on this. But I think it will take forever for this strain/cross to do what you want it to do.

Looks great, BTW.

Yeah looks like it will take forever to fill trellis. Summer is coming here. So i have to finish that grow before second week of Jun. So flowering time 9 weeks seedbank says. I still have 2,5-3 weeks before flipping and chop before mid Jun. But i don't think that 3 weeks will be enough to fill 75% of trellis.

Probably first very healthly plants i ever grew. I am so thankful no def/excess signs yet :)

I want to get decent yield compared to autos. That's why i switch to photos but looks like 3 is not enough. I thought i could be enough to fill room but i didn't grew that strain before. So it's very indica and short. I am feeling sux i didn't buy and put more seeds. I see that peoples doing with single plant but yeah strain is very important. Lesson learned.

Next time i will go for at least 6-7 plants.

But for now, i have to finish this run. Expecting some better yields than 6x auto plants 3,5 months auto grow :)

Mothman · Mar 15, 2023

Regarding the leaf plucking question (if I understand it), one instance where I pluck is if I find transpiration moisture accumulating between leaves. Then I generally pick the lower leaf off. Nice plant, but it looks dense enough to poke around in there and check.

And if you’re referring to a more thorough, systematic defoliation, I’ll let someone with more experience weigh in. I do it with every plant, but I try to be conservative since those are photosynthesis factories.

darklordmelkor · Mar 15, 2023

Mothman said:
Regarding the leaf plucking question (if I understand it), one instance where I pluck is if I find transpiration moisture accumulating between leaves. Then I generally pick the lower leaf off. Nice plant, but it looks dense enough to poke around in there and check.

And if you’re referring to a more thorough, systematic defoliation, I’ll let someone with more experience weigh in. I do it with every plant, but I try to be conservative since those are photosynthesis factories.

Yeah i will lolipop them for sure before week or in first week of flowering but very much fan leaves are bigger than hand size and blocking light. But as you mentioned it i don't want to stress them with any wrong move.

TSD · Mar 15, 2023

I wouldn't call myself an expert scrogger, as I've only done it once, and outdoors, but I'm a beliver now. By the looks of it, that net isn't really doing anything other than sitting there currently... they need to be taller and really manipulated to spread out. That's trelissing, not scrogging. Some strains aren't conducive to scrogging. Here is a link to a true master of the scrog, @CannaGranny has been successfully scrogging for some years now and actually teaches her methods.

CannaGranny Tell All Successful Scrogging

Many of us home/indoor growers have somehow stumbled upon a method known as scrogging. One of the most effective ways to triple your harvest! A successful scrog grower will never revert to free budding. Why would you willingly give up that triple take? I am in year twelve of this process and...

www.thcfarmer.com

CannaGranny · Mar 15, 2023

TSD said:
I wouldn't call myself an expert scrogger, as I've only done it once, and outdoors, but I'm a beliver now. By the looks of it, that net isn't really doing anything other than sitting there currently... they need to be taller and really manipulated to spread out. That's trelissing, not scrogging. Some strains aren't conducive to scrogging. Here is a link to a true master of the scrog, @CannaGranny has been successfully scrogging for some years now and actually teaches her methods.

CannaGranny Tell All Successful Scrogging

Many of us home/indoor growers have somehow stumbled upon a method known as scrogging. One of the most effective ways to triple your harvest! A successful scrog grower will never revert to free budding. Why would you willingly give up that triple take? I am in year twelve of this process and...

www.thcfarmer.com

Thanks for that vote of confidence!

CannaGranny · Mar 15, 2023

darklordmelkor said:
Hello all.

Growing God's Glue photos. First photos tho. Used to not defoliate autos. And i can say that first indica experiment for this grow. It's very bushy and wide but very short :) One of them is runt tho. We are in week 5 (day 33 since breaking soil). I am planning to keep them 3 more weeks because i want to fill that trellis as much as i can. I am not sure if i can fill 75% of it because these are not tall plants. Very short and bushy.

So question is should i defoliate or not? Should i do it now or wait til week before than flipping 12/12 ? I was thinking defoliate+lolipop them before flipping but i just want to know some pro thoughts. Thanks.

If more information needed; 18/6 with 1000w hps. Giving them 40-45k lux now. EC 1.2 - 1.4 pH 6.3. Peat soil. Using biocanna rhizo, vega and adding some calmag (1mL for 1LT water). Humidity bit low around 40-45.
View attachment 1340893 View attachment 1340894 View attachment 1340895

I would for sure remove anything touching your soil. Holds moisture and provides hiding spots for bugs and powdery mildew. I would then remove any leaf that is shading a Bud spot. Topping at node four would help.
As TSD told you, currently you are trellising those ladies.

darklordmelkor · Mar 16, 2023

CannaGranny said:
I would for sure remove anything touching your soil. Holds moisture and provides hiding spots for bugs and powdery mildew. I would then remove any leaf that is shading a Bud spot. Topping at node four would help.
As TSD told you, currently you are trellising those ladies.

Thank you for coming in. Okay i will defoliate some lower leaves and bigger than hand-size shadowing fan leaves today. About topping.. i never done it before.

I am currently in week 5 of veg. Is it too late to do topping? I am already at 10th set of leaves so i am over than 4th node.

I still can veg 2 more weeks or max 3 weeks btw. Will be enough to develope and heal itself if i defoliate and top today?

darklordmelkor · Mar 16, 2023

CannaGranny said:
I would for sure remove anything touching your soil. Holds moisture and provides hiding spots for bugs and powdery mildew. I would then remove any leaf that is shading a Bud spot. Topping at node four would help.
As TSD told you, currently you are trellising those ladies.

Anyway just defoliated. Removed fan leaves that touching to dirt and some big fan leaves shading bud sites. Just removed almost half of them not all. Here is before and after pics.

Now they look like bit bald to me :D Hope it makes better results.

Madmax · Mar 16, 2023

darklordmelkor said:
Thank you for coming in. Okay i will defoliate some lower leaves and bigger than hand-size shadowing fan leaves today. About topping.. i never done it before.

I am currently in week 5 of veg. Is it too late to do topping? I am already at 10th set of leaves so i am over than 4th node.

I still can veg 2 more weeks or max 3 weeks btw. Will be enough to develope and heal itself if i defoliate and top today?

No not at all .topping her will get those side branches growing and that’s what you want seems you are using a net..

darklordmelkor · Mar 16, 2023

Madmax said:
No not at all .topping her will get those side branches growing and that’s what you want seems you are using a net..

I just defoliated as you can see. But topping them in same day with defolation isn't too much stres for them? Also they already show sex. All female. So i read on some posts if they show sex you can't top them but it was just entry from a random user. I am open for all suggestions.

Look how bald they are looking tho lol.

Madmax · Mar 16, 2023

No that’s bullshit mate.plants can show sex in veg and quite a few guys top a week before flipping ..plants will show sex anywhere between 4-6 weeks..hell I even top when I flip.long as your plants are healthy they will b fine..you can wait a few days if you like..

haha..they aren’t bald .I probably would of taken more

CannaGranny · Mar 16, 2023

darklordmelkor said:
Anyway just defoliated. Removed fan leaves that touching to dirt and some big fan leaves shading bud sites. Just removed almost half of them not all. Here is before and after pics.

Now they look like bit bald to me :D Hope it makes better results.

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They look major dry to me. I always water well the night before a defoil or topping. Water her well and watch.
I see above you say you only have so much time to top etc. because she has to go to flower. Why are you on that timeline? Most plants go to flower when you are ready for them to. Not all plants are ready according to the timeline you have set for yourself. Best to defoil and top, allow the plant to open and bush out. Then take her to flower.
Sometimes I am in and out throughout the day to answer questions, but not always. So when you tag me, you must be patient I will always answer, but I am old and ornery and it’s on my time.
As @Madmax says, I would have taken a bit more, but I also know new growers fear that. Become fearless with your ladies, you should see what I do to mine! If they tend to herm every time you touch them, weak genetics. I pitch those.

CannaGranny · Mar 16, 2023

This is a scrog. See my poor ladies? Bent, broken, shoved below a table? Pitiful huh?
Next pic, two days later! They have righted themselves and filled my screen with tops. You should see them this morning.

darklordmelkor · Mar 16, 2023

CannaGranny said:
This is a scrog. See my poor ladies? Bent, broken, shoved below a table? Pitiful huh?
Next pic, two days later! They have righted themselves and filled my screen with tops. You should see them this morning. View attachment 1341146 View attachment 1341147

Nice one. My goal was something like that but i am growing photos first time so next time i will top them earlier and pick better genetics.

I watered them 4 days before with 5 liters of water (pot is 20L) and get 1 liter run off. They don't drink much.

Normally i water them with pot lifting method. If it's very light i am watering but this ladies don't really drink much. Today before defoliation i pick them up to see if they drank well but pot was still heavy.

There is really nice grow rate when i compare day by day pics. But not taller just wider and nodes are very very tight.

Okay few days more after defoliation shock i will top them and give 2 weeks more veg then flip to 12/12.

This run i think i shouldn't expect something good. But next time i will go for 6-7 plants for sure. 3 is very less for 5x5 and genetics are bad i think..

CannaGranny · Mar 16, 2023

darklordmelkor said:
Nice one. My goal was something like that but i am growing photos first time so next time i will top them earlier and pick better genetics.

I watered them 4 days before with 5 liters of water (pot is 20L) and get 1 liter run off. They don't drink much.

Normally i water them with pot lifting method. If it's very light i am watering but this ladies don't really drink much. Today before defoliation i pick them up to see if they drank well but pot was still heavy.

There is really nice grow rate when i compare day by day pics. But not taller just wider and nodes are very very tight.

Okay few days more after defoliation shock i will top them and give 2 weeks more veg then flip to 12/12.

This run i think i shouldn't expect something good. But next time i will go for 6-7 plants for sure. 3 is very less for 5x5 and genetics are bad i think..

Thanks! Sounds like a plan. That’s three plants in my five by five. Topping and defoil is not so stressful to them, they get this in nature all of the time. What is stressful to them is under watering, overwatering, under feeding , over feeding, light burn and light penetration in hours of darkness.

darklordmelkor · Mar 20, 2023

CannaGranny said:
Thanks! Sounds like a plan. That’s three plants in my five by five. Topping and defoil is not so stressful to them, they get this in nature all of the time. What is stressful to them is under watering, overwatering, under feeding , over feeding, light burn and light penetration in hours of darkness.

Defoliated and topped. They was seems so bald after defolation and now not even week later, they are BUSHY af again. Also topping made sides EXPLODE. I took trellis off and bend them so bad. But wow they are really exploding so bad. I will defoliate next week again. Because smaller leaves are being huge just in 24 hours!

Now @CannaGranny i have a idea. I am running 1000w HPS on them. So 3 plants under 1000w is such a waste. I should have go for at least 6 plants. I got my lesson. But now i have to use this light as much as i can. So i have a plan.

Ordered tons of seeds (15 seeds all indica dominant like i am growing now). I want to add 3 more plants to make it 6 plants. So i can use my light better. I don't have worry about time so much.

So adding 3 more plants, vegging them 5 week and topping. I will not LST them (new plants) to catch height with others. But here is my problem starts with my plan. If i veg 4-5 weeks new seeds, this current ones will be 9-10 weeks of veg. Height is not issue. I can raise pots upper and get same height when i switch to 12/12. But plants are in 20L pots (actually 21-22L of soil. I added more than 20L of soil). So 10 week veg is ok for 20L pots? Also what is your thoughts about my plan? Thanks.

Here is how we look like now btw.

CannaGranny · Mar 20, 2023

Looking great! I see no problem with you holding over your first plants, as long as you have the space for them. That’s the beauty of this plant, you get to decide when you are ready for flower. Keep us posted, I’ll follow along

RootsRuler · Mar 20, 2023

@CannaGranny - you can confirm this but when I was taught to defol the rule of thumb was anything 12 inches below the canopy gets removed. First 3 or 4 inches of the bottom of that 12 inches gets every other leaf removed, large water leaves took precedence for removal over younger leaves, and any leaves covering bud sites that can't be tucked under are removed. This was for a room running HID lighting so canopy penetration will be deeper.

For LED I would say canopy no deeper than 8" - 9". First 2" to 3" remove every other leaf and remove any covering bud sites that can't be tucked or folded away from the bud site.

Defoliate or not defoliate that's the question

Defoliate or not defoliate that's the question

darklordmelkor

mysticepipedon

darklordmelkor

Mothman

darklordmelkor

TSD

CannaGranny Tell All Successful Scrogging

CannaGranny

CannaGranny Tell All Successful Scrogging

CannaGranny

darklordmelkor

darklordmelkor

Madmax

darklordmelkor

Madmax

CannaGranny

CannaGranny

darklordmelkor

CannaGranny

darklordmelkor

CannaGranny

RootsRuler

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