Defoliation Side By Side - Bushy Plants

Dirtbag · Sep 18, 2019

I did try full defoliating once to one plant. What I got from that plant was bud that had a lot of small leaves in it and it was more airy than the rest of the crop. I didnt measure the yield though for some reason, but the quality decline was enough for me to not do it again

That said.. I've seen pictures man. I've seen pics of defoliated crops that look alright, great even. Miami mango is just one example. So I think there has to be more to the technique than simply stripping all the leaves. Because for me, that didnt end well.

Lord Bonkey · Sep 18, 2019

How is this debate still going on... there have been studies both formal and by laymen...

Defoliation to any serious degree hurts yield.

flowering isnt veg, you have a finite time table, and any time spent repairing damage slows down flower production.
these are facts. reviewed and tested ad nauseum.

Brown.Thumb · Sep 18, 2019

I planted early so my plants went into early flower, then reverted to veg as daylight hours grew longer. I had no choice but to defoliate and rip off dying buds until they stabilized. They're back into flower again. Even so, those plants are doing okay... not great but okay... as good as my meager efforts have produced.

cemchris · Sep 18, 2019

Lord Bonkey said:
How is this debate still going on... there have been studies both formal and by laymen...

Defoliation to any serious degree hurts yield.

flowering isnt veg, you have a finite time table, and any time spent repairing damage slows down flower production.
these are facts. reviewed and tested ad nauseum.

Cause whatever evidence you claim to be sighting has been proven wrong by numerous people. I still don't get how people are sitting here saying to someone who defols and runs a bunch of rooms with the same clones, lights, feeds, and medium when you don't defol its more weight. Unless my scales like to play evil tricks on me or I can't read numbers all of a sudden. You think some of us would do a ton of extra work on some anecdotal shit? For real? If not defoling a plant in my setup would give me the same numbers you better believe i would have stop doing it a long time ago. Maybe I'm just a super evil dude and I want to see everyone not me fail or i'm just a sadist and like doing a ton of extra work cause it makes me feel special.....seems legit.

1 More time.........everyones grows are different. Understanding this would help you when throwing out blanket statements based on a 1-2 light tent grow and applying that to everyones shit. Try it yourself and see what works for you. Use all of this as a suggestion. You wont know until you compare it in your own setup like @FatManatee did. Only way I would take the advice of someone telling you this is you both had the same clones, lights, mediums, plant count/area, veg time, plant height, topping/training and enviro. All of those factor into a statement like defol is more weight or no defol is more weight. That's like saying "well outdoors in my 200 gallon smart pots I do x and x and if you do the same thing with your 3 plant LED setup in a tent you will get the same results. Trust me facts and science."

Lord Bonkey · Sep 18, 2019

cemchris said:
You think some of us would do a ton of extra work on some anecdotal shit?

yes,ofc, see seti and big foot, and the entire history of the occult for some obvious examples...

cemchris said:
trust me facts and science.

hahah says it all right there doesnt it

Im not saying dont do it if you like it... Im just pointing out that defoliating is the flat earth of pot growing lol

Lord Bonkey · Sep 18, 2019

cemchris said:
Maybe I'm just a super evil dude and I want to see everyone not me fail or i'm just a sadist and like doing a ton of extra work cause it makes me feel special...

do you not feel like that is a crazy over reaction?
no one thinks you are acting in bad faith, nor was I attacking your character.
you do seem pretty emotional attached to the idea though....

Dirtbag · Sep 18, 2019

The anti defoliators are just as stubborn as the defoliators on this one... I believe there is a middle ground and recent science is backing this up. Removal of lower leaves that are out of direct light is shown to improve source - sink relationships in the plant and improve yields and crop quality. This isnt the only crop the technique is used on either, tomatoes, peas and others use selective defoliation to promote blooming in a productive way. I'm not talking about fully stripping the plant, I'm talking about removing older lower leaves as well as any large upper leaves that severely block light to buds in the canopy while leaving plenty behind for photosynthesis.

I'm with cemchris on this one, If I dont selectively prune and defoliate, my crop turns into a rats nest of larfy buds with some nice tops. I for sure increase yield and drastically improve overall crop quality by manipulating the plant to some extent.

Here is a good read on it.
Edit* Just went to read it again and now only the abstract is visible.. Shame it was a really good write up. But you'll get the idea reading the abstract.

Analyzing the significance of defoliation in growth, photosynthetic compensation and source-sink relations - Photosynthetica

Leaf canopy plays a determining role influencing source-sink relations as any change in source activity (photosynthesis) affects sink metabolism. Defoliation (removal of leaves) influences growth and photosynthetic capacity of plants, remobilizes carbon and nitrogen reserves and accelerates sink...

link.springer.com

Medigrow · Sep 18, 2019

cemchris said:
So true. Next we should talk about all the benefits of 48 dark period before flower.....

I hear dancing with the stars 5 days before trimming improve the overall yield, trichomes and wife happiness :D

cemchris · Sep 18, 2019

Yeah for sure. I'm all about trying it yourself and seeing what works. We see backwards ass stuff all day long and horrible advice people follow daily. It's the nature of the beast with egos. Just take what people say with a grain of salt and give it a whirl and see what works for you. It's pretty easy to figure out on your own once you have a couple of grows under your belt either way you go with it.

@Lord Bonkey lol no. It's to get a point across since this is the interwebs. There is just a big problem with people giving out suggestions and advice that don't have experience under their belts and are just telephoning what they read somewhere else. By all means there has been some claims about all these studies and proven facts about if you defol you will get less weight. I'm just waiting to read some of it. It's that simple. That part has been absent. What the OP did is what everyone should do if they have a question about it. Something like plant nutrients is a pretty cut and dry discussion to a point. Something like this is going to be different from pretty much all angles.

@Dirtbag got you. Good read.

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Nafees_Khan/publication/234014243_Analyzing_the_significance_of_defoliation_in_growth_photosynthetic_compensation_and_source-sink_relations/links/02e7e528a0e1f302bc000000.pdf

Dirtbag · Sep 18, 2019

cemchris said:
Yeah for sure. I'm all about trying it yourself and seeing what works. We see backwards ass stuff all day long and horrible advice people follow daily. It's the nature of the beast with egos. Just take what people say with a grain of salt and give it a whirl and see what works for you. It's pretty easy to figure out on your own once you have a couple of grows under your belt either way you go with it.

@Lord Bonkey lol no. It's to get a point across since this is the interwebs. There is just a big problem with people giving out suggestions and advice that don't have experience under their belts and are just telephoning what they read somewhere else. By all means there has been some claims about all these studies and proven facts about if you defol you will get less weight. I'm just waiting to read some of it. It's that simple. That part has been absent. What the OP did is what everyone should do if they have a question about it. Something like plant nutrients is a pretty cut and dry discussion to a point. Something like this is going to be different from pretty much all angles.

@Dirtbag got you. Good read.

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Nafees_Khan/publication/234014243_Analyzing_the_significance_of_defoliation_in_growth_photosynthetic_compensation_and_source-sink_relations/links/02e7e528a0e1f302bc000000.pdf

Awesome, thank you! I read this a while ago and it really gave me a new perspective. I try to read up on as many new legitimate scientific papers as possible regarding plant growth, because with legalization all over the place now, science is coming down the pipe for cannabis at a quickening rate. I for one am really looking forward to dispelling some of the cannabis myths that plague the internet as you pointed out.

cemchris · Sep 18, 2019

HPS is better then LED /thread #Allbud #Hardmode

Dirtbag · Sep 18, 2019

Just gonna throw up a couple pics of my experience with selective defoliation... This grow has been selectively pruned and defoliated twice, but I only remove lower growth and thin out the upper canopy. I dont allow much if any light to hit the floor. Probably took 2 rubbermaid containers of leaves and branches out of here in the last month, and you would hardly know it. They're healthy and growing like stink, and every bud is receiving adequate light and developing nicely down to the bottom of the canopy. If I hadn't pruned and pulled leaves it would be a nightmarish mess in here. This is week 4 of flower, did the last prune week and a half ago. Didnt slow them down at all.

Dirtbag · Sep 18, 2019

cemchris said:
HPS is better then LED /thread #Allbud #Hardmode

Lol its hilarious but also exhausting.

Lord Bonkey · Sep 18, 2019

Dirtbag said:
Just gonna throw up a couple pics of my experience with selective defoliation... This grow has been selectively pruned and defoliated twice, but I only remove lower growth and thin out the upper canopy. I dont allow much if any light to hit the floor. Probably took 2 rubbermaid containers of leaves and branches out of here in the last month, and you would hardly know it. They're healthy and growing like stink, and every bud is receiving adequate light and developing nicely down to the bottom of the canopy. If I hadn't pruned and pulled leaves it would be a nightmarish mess in here. This is week 4 of flower, did the last prune week and a half ago. Didnt slow them down at all.

You know thats not what they mean though... no one is aruging about removing that stuff, which is the whole point of not defoliating, not chasing fluff

maybe thats part of the issue but when I hear defoilate, I see all fan leaves gone.

Dirtbag · Sep 18, 2019

Lord Bonkey said:
You know thats not what they mean though... no one is aruging about removing that stuff, which is the whole point of not defoliating, not chasing fluff

maybe thats part of the issue but when I hear defoilate, I see all fan leaves gone.

For sure, pulling all the fan leaves off doesnt make any sense to me either.

Medigrow · Sep 18, 2019

cemchris said:
HPS is better then LED /thread #Allbud #Hardmode

Have you tried them both? :D

Medigrow · Sep 18, 2019

Dirtbag said:
Just gonna throw up a couple pics of my experience with selective defoliation... This grow has been selectively pruned and defoliated twice, but I only remove lower growth and thin out the upper canopy. I dont allow much if any light to hit the floor. Probably took 2 rubbermaid containers of leaves and branches out of here in the last month, and you would hardly know it. They're healthy and growing like stink, and every bud is receiving adequate light and developing nicely down to the bottom of the canopy. If I hadn't pruned and pulled leaves it would be a nightmarish mess in here. This is week 4 of flower, did the last prune week and a half ago. Didnt slow them down at all.
View attachment 896968 View attachment 896969

WHAT DID YOU DO!!! You barely kill those plants with all that crazy defoil! :D

cemchris · Sep 18, 2019

Lord Bonkey said:
You know thats not what they mean though... no one is aruging about removing that stuff, which is the whole point of not defoliating, not chasing fluff

maybe thats part of the issue but when I hear defoilate, I see all fan leaves gone.

For sure when I say defol I'm not talking about stripping the plant from top to bottom either. I know eaxactly what you are thinking and have seen it. I'm like @Dirtbag with it. I'm talking about that style vs not removing a single leaf from top to bottom.

cemchris · Sep 18, 2019

Medigrow said:
Have you tried them both? :D

thatsthejoke.jpg

Dirtbag · Sep 18, 2019

These issues are almost political the way people take sides on them and refuse to see another perspective. I've never been a very political dude I guess lol. And even though my plant stripping experiment was a disaster, like I said I've seen pics of stripped crops that look decent. But I've also seen some really bad #Hardmode type shit too. Still, I'm not convinced 100% that there isnt something to it if done correctly, It just defies my knowledge and understanding of plant biology is all.

Defoliation Side By Side - Bushy Plants

Defoliation Side By Side - Bushy Plants

Dirtbag

Lord Bonkey

Brown.Thumb

cemchris

Lord Bonkey

Lord Bonkey

Dirtbag

Analyzing the significance of defoliation in growth, photosynthetic compensation and source-sink relations - Photosynthetica

Medigrow

cemchris

Dirtbag

cemchris

Dirtbag

Dirtbag

Lord Bonkey

Dirtbag

Medigrow

Medigrow

cemchris

cemchris

Dirtbag

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