Defoliation Side By Side - Bushy Plants

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Dasnip

Dasnip

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Sorry folks I've converted
IMG 20190911 182755
 
MIMedGrower

MIMedGrower

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For me doing no defol in a room will usually net me about a 1/2 lb less. I don't go crazy anymore like I used to just top 30% of the plant minus the crowns. Basically everything above the top screen or 2 screens if there is more then 2. No defol will almost always net me less then 2 lbs a light. I've done it both ways a bunch and its a pretty consistent loss on some of my strains that are leafy. Might just be my style or the way I have plants packed on the table. I also only defol once now in flower and its usually about week 4 or 5. I don't defol veg plants until I'm throwing them into flower and that's usually when I do the bottoms and most of the lower fans that will be below the screens. I messed around with it a bunch and I have never been able to hit the 2lb a light mark without pulling leaves in any of my rooms although I've gotten close.

I think a lot of this question is very strain specific.



Absolutely and room specific too. So many variables.....
 
Padrepuff

Padrepuff

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Absolutely and room specific too. So many variables.....
So on the White Widow feminized I'm going to grow in the promix hp soil what would do? I know this most sound stupid but, what is top 2 screen better yet what does ,"screen," refer too? Remember I'm just a virgin when it comes to growing. Trying to pop that cherry. I'm your groupie is case that isn't obvious by now.🤠💯
 
MIMedGrower

MIMedGrower

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So on the White Widow feminized I'm going to grow in the promix hp soil what would do? I know this most sound stupid but, what is top 2 screen better yet what does ,"screen," refer too? Remember I'm just a virgin when it comes to growing. Trying to pop that cherry. I'm your groupie is case that isn't obvious by now.🤠💯


Well im just a small medical grower with limited experience and dont deserve a “groupie”. Groupies usually crush on big industry leaders like @JWM2

Had to give a nudge there

:)



But i think the screens you are refering to are just nets placed above the plants as they stretch to hold up the buds and keep the canopy even.

As far as picking healthy leaves off there is no need with a couple of plants with some space around them. And you only need to do such things if there is a clear benefit.

I keep my bushes short for best coverage and penetration by the 600’s and leave space around them amd move and turn them frequently so i dont need to remove leaves.

When it gets too crowded in there is when its time to make sure the leaves are not laying on each other too much and trapping humidity pockets that can bring mold.

As far as yield. Dont worry about that. Just keep the plants as healthy as you can and the yield and quality will follow.

I would suggest focusing on environment amd lighting.
 
Padrepuff

Padrepuff

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Well im just a small medical grower with limited experience and dont deserve a “groupie”. Groupies usually crush on big industry leaders like @JWM2

Had to give a nudge there

:)



But i think the screens you are refering to are just nets placed above the plants as they stretch to hold up the buds and keep the canopy even.

As far as picking healthy leaves off there is no need with a couple of plants with some space around them. And you only need to do such things if there is a clear benefit.

I keep my bushes short for best coverage and penetration by the 600’s and leave space around them amd move and turn them frequently so i dont need to remove leaves.

When it gets too crowded in there is when its time to make sure the leaves are not laying on each other too much and trapping humidity pockets that can bring mold.

As far as yield. Dont worry about that. Just keep the plants as healthy as you can and the yield and quality will follow.

I would suggest focusing on environment amd lighting.
As far as screen I saw it in the post you were talking about. Being your "personal stalker"😉 aka groupie has yielded great advice & knowledge" As far as growing I didn't know my ass from my elbow. You have been my " Yoda". 😊
 
cemchris

cemchris

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So on the White Widow feminized I'm going to grow in the promix hp soil what would do? I know this most sound stupid but, what is top 2 screen better yet what does ,"screen," refer too? Remember I'm just a virgin when it comes to growing. Trying to pop that cherry. I'm your groupie is case that isn't obvious by now.🤠💯

Screens, Nets, Trellis, ect all the same. Everything above the top arrow will get trimmed up to the crown (top 2 sets of leaves) when they are done stretching. Everything below the bottom arrow gets removed. Every strain is different tho. Some of my other plants get 3-4 screens since they don't support themselves worth a shit or stretch a ton and those get a different approach. This is one of those strains I will usually selectively pull some leaves out of the middle sweet spot since it's a leafy plant. Just takes experience with a particular strain. First run on new strains I usually don't defol at all just to see what they do and how they grow.

IMG 1704
 
Padrepuff

Padrepuff

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Screens, Nets, Trellis, ect all the same. Everything above the top arrow will get trimmed up to the crown (top 2 sets of leaves) when they are done stretching. Everything below the bottom arrow gets removed. Every strain is different tho. Some of my other plants get 3-4 screens since they don't support themselves worth a shit or stretch a ton and those get a different approach. This is one of those strains I will usually selectively pull some leaves out of the middle sweet spot since it's a leafy plant. Just takes experience with a particular strain. First run on new strains I usually don't defol at all just to see what they do and how they grow.

View attachment 895231
Thank you bud brother. I had no idea seriously. But you are right I'm trying to start with two plants . If a lot eventually 3. "I'm not worthy".
 
cemchris

cemchris

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Thank you bud brother. I had no idea seriously. But you are right I'm trying to start with two plants . If a lot eventually 3. "I'm not worthy".
Numbers don't matter. We all start somewhere. You are already in a percentile since you decided to grow your own. Thumbs up.
 
Padrepuff

Padrepuff

352
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Numbers don't matter. We all start somewhere. You are already in a percentile since you decided to grow your own. Thumbs up.
Thanks " bud". The problem is I realized I was able to treat my pain get off 60mg Morphine every 4hrs. But the prices not to mention quality differ greatly from med. dispensaries .
 
Migrower

Migrower

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Thanks " bud". The problem is I realized I was able to treat my pain get off 60mg Morphine every 4hrs. But the prices not to mention quality differ greatly from med. dispensaries .
I love this story. Every time I hear it. Opiates were pushed on Americans, ole USofA and big pharma,reducing the population while getting rich off of death. A win win for our government.(meaning control of minds) see where the word comes from. Cannabis to fight the corrupt system that people actully vote for a person to rule them. Democracy, as stated by a great mind, is two wolves and a lamb arguing over what to eat for dinner.
 
Bobrown14

Bobrown14

274
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It definitely helps out your yield for sure. It’s difficult to do in the beginning because of the fear of destroying your harvest. Look on Black Dog Leds website or YouTube channel. They explain it much better. Pruning in a way so all your colas are around the same height, also increases your yield. Your plants look amazing man. Great job.

No - there's no evidence or science to back up your claim.

Growing in a scrog does not yield any more than growing a plant with little or no training/topping/pruning.

Show me some SCIENCE.



I believe in removing only the leaves blocking large bud sites that block light penetration. So just a few on and around the tops is fine for me. Otherwise I like to leave the plant as is and let nature take its course. Leaves help with plant transpiration and transporting immobile micro nutrients throughout the plant.

This ^^^ What I've been saying.

Light is not really used by flowers as much as it is by the leaves.

The question should be; "How do flowers get energy to grow bigger?"

There's a fair amount of science on this. Flowers are not filled with Chlorophyll or they would taste like shit when we burn them. My flowers taste VERY smooth even fresh off the vine.

So if they are NOT filled with chlorphyll why would we need/want to have more light hit the bud sites by removing leaves??
 
Bobrown14

Bobrown14

274
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Sorry to hear about your issues are you sure its not something else??

Because how did I grow this if only the top flowers are the biggest??

Pro tip:

The flowers under the top flowers have the highest THC content.

This is how the commercial growers get the flowers tested for THC content. Its not the tops its the flowers under the tops. Likely in the shade too.

That is a 1/2 gal mason jar there VVV how come all the flowers on that stem are basically the same size - they are and the whole plant all the flowers were the same size. Not sure of your point @JWM2
 
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grassmania22

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Cool setup you got there! I also just remove the damaged leaves after a week or two. But you're doing with the climate control is great
 
MIMedGrower

MIMedGrower

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Sorry to hear about your issues are you sure its not something else??

Because how did I grow this if only the top flowers are the biggest??

Pro tip:

The flowers under the top flowers have the highest THC content.

This is how the commercial growers get the flowers tested for THC content. Its not the tops its the flowers under the tops. Likely in the shade too.

That is a 1/2 gal mason jar there VVV how come all the flowers on that stem are basically the same size - they are and the whole plant all the flowers were the same size. Not sure of your point @JWM2


Lots of variables to that. I lower the plants away from the hps during ripening to preserve the trichomes because i noticed the same. Frostier down lower.

Also have had plenty of huge bud growing right down every branch into the canopy.

But not all strains/ crosses have done that.
 
Migrower

Migrower

300
93
No - there's no evidence or science to back up your claim.

Growing in a scrog does not yield any more than growing a plant with little or no training.

I disagree completely. A properly trained plant in a scrim net or otherwise will yeild more quality flowers than a plant left untouched and fed the same reg. Under same light. Do you think these techniques just came about and stayed around because they don’t work. On the contrary. Most plants need pruning and training to grow to their Optimal potential. Shoot without training most grape varieties wouldn’t produce enough to sqeeze juice.
 
Brown.Thumb

Brown.Thumb

76
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I had to trim a LOT on all my larger plants because I planted too early so they went into early flower, then they reverted back to veg under longer sunlight hours. After that, I've only trimmed a few branches to thin the herd on each plant.

Now that they're in flower again, I'm only pulling sick fan leaves. However, I'm pulling MANY fan leaves because so many are yellowing and dying. I know some yellowing is expected in the flowering stage but this is extreme. Yes, it's a deficiency... no, I don't know what I'm doing.:speechless:
 
Shedhead

Shedhead

33
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Another thing I wonder about somewhat pertaining to the thread topic. Keep in mind I'm not referring to leaves specifically, more pruning defoliation.
In the week leading up to flip, I prune up every node and snip off any branches/stems that I don't think have a chance of seeing the light in my tightly packed scroggish type room. From mid week two to mid week three, the plants are obviously unrecognizable. So I repeat the prune job. My concern is by doing this, even though still early in flower- while removing stuff what will be trash and in theory transferring energy, I'm stressing the plant too much. Thoughts?
View attachment 893223this is the result of heavy defoliation
if that's the result of heavy defoil, I'll stick to light defoil any day man. That doesn't look the best sorry bro.
 
Bobrown14

Bobrown14

274
63
I disagree completely. A properly trained plant in a scrim net or otherwise will yeild more quality flowers than a plant left untouched and fed the same reg. Under same light. Do you think these techniques just came about and stayed around because they don’t work. On the contrary. Most plants need pruning and training to grow to their Optimal potential. Shoot without training most grape varieties wouldn’t produce enough to sqeeze juice.

Grape analogy is like comparing apples to oranges to be honest. Actually fruits do ripen better and faster and get sweeter with more sunlight.

Grape farming is one of the very few horticultural industries that actually will take off leaves SELECTIVELY when the grape fruit is set and ripening on the vine.

Fruits and flowers are actually completely different in how they ripen. Not the greatest analogy tbh.


Do I think these training ideas just came about? Yes, they just came about in around the same time people started to use chemicals in bottles to grow flowers. Yeah. I guess the first 10 thousand years of human cultivation of cannabis doesn't count?

Whats your point??

Yields cause if it yields you need to do some scientific studies to prove what you say. I bet dollars to donuts any outdoor grower will kick your ass with yields every day all day and they don't prune or defoil or train or whatever you wanna call it.

Yields = biomass over time.

You could spend 6 months training your plants to grow under thru netting and get decent yields. I run plants naturally and harvest every 40-50 days of flowering @ roughly 1.3 gm per watt.

Do your math and see if your training/defoil adds up. The yield argument is nothing new.

What it comes down to is people justifying their own techniques weather they make any sense or not. It doesn't matter. It's been done so it must be right.

This thought process actually has name and has been studied.

It's called "illusory truth effect"


"In a 2015 study, researchers discovered that familiarity can overpower rationality and that repetitively hearing that a certain fact is wrong can affect the hearer's beliefs.
Researchers attributed the illusory truth effect's impact on participants who knew the correct answer to begin with, but were persuaded to believe otherwise through the repetition of a falsehood, to "processing fluency".

An example of this is "you get more bigger better dank nugs if you cut off all the fan leaves"

On the surface it makes no sense but after "hearing" it said over and over its becomes a defacto truth. Even though it is not.
 

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