This was an honest question I posted. I was really hoping somebody could shed some light.

I have gotten as far as I have by scouring the web for info. And by trials and tribulations. There were a few knowledgeable forum members around here a while ago, but seems they have gone. I am not a trained chemist. I started with only slightly more than a fundamental understanding of cannabis extracting. I have reached the point that I have a very refined concentrate I am more than sure meets or exceeds any 'dabbers' expectations. I am just a Regular Joe with an aptitude to learn. To learn how to make my own medicine. And to share what I have learned.

I think I have now have my filtering woes solved. My issue now is in finishing. I am not sure what I doing to have the end concentrate finish as shatter or wax after vacuum oven.

- Is it the solvent itself?
I have used two different solvents. One solvent that is 92% EtOH and 8% IPA. And the other is 99% IPA. Could it be the water content in the 92% EtOH-8% IPA solvent?
- Winterization/Filtering?
Is it the wax, lipid, and fat content not fully removed?
Could residual 'fats' be what differentiates the two?

I really prefer the 'wax'. Very aromatic and flavorful. Both my wax and shatter fuck you up good. But the wax seems to be 'that much better'.

What is the difference between the two? What am I doing to have one or the other? It is something in my process.

My end concentrate is good enough that some that have tried it, have recommended their 'grow buddies' to go see me. I want to be consistent. And let me be clear; these 'grow buddies' are just regular people growing legal personal crops here in Canukistan. Although I would love nothing more to be a legit processor, I am not by any means a commercial processor. Just an old dude trying to make gold, make gold for others, and share the knowledge.

It really sucks. I would really like to know what factors determine what the end concentrate will be; shatter or wax.

I really wish I had the talent and space to grow. I am so envious of you guys and gals that grow premo bud. You guys rock! Growing presentable bud is a absolute art. Just as I have found extracting.

Incredible what you can archive playing around with different solvents and techniques!
Would like to know more about the Stuff y doing, awesome work, also on your plants.
My little experience with some hash and butan extracts can't help y further I mention some guys who could reach out and help.
Just write an @ and the name behind and they will take notice.
Mr. Hash: @GNick55
@JKash @jadins_journey @Captspaulding @Mikedin if they can't help, they know who can.

i hear ya,..
i know what you mean by getting different consistency,..
not sure how to help here though as i do it more hand made and only use isopropyl,..
i’d have to watch you do the whole process,.
are you growing the weed that you are using to extract?

GNick55 said:

i hear ya,..
i know what you mean by getting different consistency,..
not sure how to help here though as i do it more hand made and only use isopropyl,..
i’d have to watch you do the whole process,.
are you growing the weed that you are using to extract?

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Hey man, thanks for the reply.

As much as I would like to, no, I do not grow.

I am limited to what grow buddies throw me or what I can find on the down-low. Although I have shared samples of my extracts with some friends, I am extracting as a hobby and is for personal use. There is no monetary gain. So ya. My concentrates come at an expense.

Furthermore, I cant even make the shit as cheap as it is being sold. With that said, it is near impossible to find a vape-able 'pure' and unadulterated concentrate in dispensaries. Most are distillates cut with whatever. Not for me.

As far as a posting a video demonstrating my process, I have no video production skills. I have thought of posting one. But I did not want to seem as 'the know all' of the forum. I like how you did your extraction video. Well put together. Maybe I can copy the format somewhat. Any tips?

Although I am willing to share anything I have learned, I am by no means an expert. I can say though, my own process I developed does yield a premium and marketable product. But again, I cant produce it cost-effectively. The time alone it takes. I would need approx $70CAD/g just to break even. And that doent account for about $7000 I have spent on equipment. Sounds kinda dumb spending that on a 'hobby'. But for about 20+ years previous, I was spending that in a year, building and benchmarking high-end PCs with newest bleeding-edge components. Spending thousands on hardware that is obsolete before even purchased. With this hobby, nothing becomes obsolete. And will last me as long as I dont fuck it up it.

So I posed this question to DeepAI.

"I use 99% isopropyl alcohol or 195 proof ethanol as a solvent to extract. Does either of the solvents factor in determining whether the end product is shatter or wax? What is the difference between the two?"

DeepAI answer:

Great questions! Both isopropyl alcohol (IPA) and high-proof ethanol (like 195 proof) are popular solvents for cannabis extraction, but they do have some differences, which can influence the characteristics of the end product, such as whether it turns out to be shatter or wax.

Solvent Differences:​

• Isopropyl Alcohol (IPA):
  • IPA can effectively extract cannabinoids and terpenes, but it can also extract chlorophyll and other plant materials, which can lead to a less desirable color and flavor.
  • Generally, it's not recommended for consumption due to potential impurities (e.g., the presence of other byproducts). It’s more common in applications where the extract is intended for non-consumable purposes.
• Ethanol (195 Proof):
  • Ethanol is considered safe for consumption and is often preferred for extracting cannabis intended for edibles or tinctures.
  • When used properly with the right temperature and extraction time, ethanol can yield a purer product with better flavor and aroma, as it can be more selective in the compounds it extracts.

Wax vs. Shatter:​

The terms "wax" and "shatter" refer to different textures and consistencies of the cannabis concentrate, primarily influenced by several factors, including extraction technique, solvent, temperature, and post-extraction handling.

1. Shatter:
   • Shatter is a glass-like concentrate that is typically hard and brittle.
   • It tends to have a higher terpene concentration and is often produced at lower temperatures. The goal is to keep the extract as stable as possible.
   • Shatter is created when the extracted material is purged effectively. The purging process helps to remove residual solvents and leads to a more stable end product, resulting in the glossy, translucent appearance.
2. Wax:
   • Wax has a softer, more malleable consistency and can be more opaque than shatter.
   • This texture is often achieved through slightly higher temperatures and/or agitation during or after the extraction process, which can incorporate air and create a whipped texture.
   • Wax can also form if the extract is not purged as effectively or left in a warm environment causing it to become more viscous.

Factors Influencing the End Product:​

• Temperature: Higher extraction temperatures can lead to wax, while lower temperatures can yield shatter.
• Purging Technique: The effectiveness of the purging process can significantly affect the final product. Shatter typically requires more thorough purging to eliminate residual solvents completely.
• Agitation During Processing: Techniques that involve more agitation during extraction or post-processing can create waxy textures.

Final Notes:​

While both isopropyl alcohol and ethanol can produce concentrates, if you're focusing on purity and flavor for consumption purposes, ethanol is generally the better choice due to its safety profile and ability to produce cleaner extracts. However, for both types of extracts, controlling variables like temperature, purge time, and handling with care will help you achieve your desired consistency.
If you have more specific questions or need further details, feel free to ask!

Anyone?

Don’t forget to add that ethanol cost three times as much! That could be a factor! And that some states restrict being able to get it in bulk online! And if you plan on drinking any of it, make sure you get non-denatured, Food, grade ethanol! Just to cents.

Oldchucky said:

Don’t forget to add that ethanol cost three times as much! That could be a factor! And that some states restrict being able to get it in bulk online! And if you plan on drinking any of it, make sure you get non-denatured, Food, grade ethanol! Just to cents.

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Yes. other than Everclear, ethanol is heavily regulated in Canada as well. I have looked into what is required to purchase it legally. And no, I dont plan on drinking it.

It looks as though it is near impossible for a private person to get the permit. And even if you do manage to get the permit, it is good for only 3 months at most. Then must be renewed.

Even if I could purchase denatured ethanol I would be happy. The closest a person can get to that in Canada is to buy e-nrg (95% EtOH, 5% IPA). $52CAD/4L. I have used it as solvent and it works well. I actually cleaned out Canadian Tire's stock once. LOL

I order 16L of 99% IPA, USP grade from Amazon for $119CAD. Would love to be able to use 200 Proof EtOH.

Also, DeepAI suggests that ethanol produces a 'cleaner and more flavorful'. I am not sure how it can when it has a 5% water phase in it. Everything I have learned about extracting is that you want as close to an anhydrous solvent as possible for the cleanest extract. IPA is 99%. So how can that be? The water phase in EtOH is minimal, but still present. With the potential of picking up garbage. Is this correct?

I just stick to making hash! But have researched the alcohols in case I want to go oil! I was just surprised that you could have it shipped into Cali with a little or no restriction! But you can’t buy Everclear here! That’s California! But Everclear is just as expensive as food grade ethanol, and a little less pure! So if I had the choice, I would go with the ethanol! But it’s probably not a dealbreaker if all you can get is Everclear! ISO is downright cheap in comparison! Already have a bunch of that! Denatured is probably for businesses that don’t want employees getting Hammered on the job! Lol!

Things are a little different nowadays! Probably have people using food, grade ethanol to pull the THC out of weed, but not reducing it! Then, adding it to cocktails as a different kind of drink! I’ll have a cannabis daiquiri and make it a double! Would you like sativa? Or Indica, sir?

Oldchucky said:

Things are a little different nowadays! Probably have people using food, grade ethanol to pull the THC out of weed, but not reducing it! Then, adding it to cocktails as a different kind of drink! I’ll have a cannabis daiquiri and make it a double! Would you like sativa? Or Indica, sir?

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I actually wondered that myself. Gave up the juice years ago but it makes a fella curious.
Can a person decarb then extract ? All ways wondered that one too

jadins_journey said:

I actually wondered that myself. Gave up the juice years ago but it makes a fella curious.
Can a person decarb then extract ? All ways wondered that one too

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Yes you can decarb prior to extracting. But if really nice flower, I would not recommend decarbing prior to extraction. It makes the best weed taste like shit. And that transfers to your concentrate.

If making edibles, this isnt an issue.

cronicoldguy said:

Yes. other than Everclear, ethanol is heavily regulated in Canada as well. I have looked into what is required to purchase it legally. And no, I dont plan on drinking it.

It looks as though it is near impossible for a private person to get the permit. And even if you do manage to get the permit, it is good for only 3 months at most. Then must be renewed.

Even if I could purchase denatured ethanol I would be happy. The closest a person can get to that in Canada is to buy e-nrg (95% EtOH, 5% IPA). $52CAD/4L. I have used it as solvent and it works well. I actually cleaned out Canadian Tire's stock once. LOL

I order 16L of 99% IPA, USP grade from Amazon for $119CAD. Would love to be able to use 200 Proof EtOH.

Also, DeepAI suggests that ethanol produces a 'cleaner and more flavorful'. I am not sure how it can when it has a 5% water phase in it. Everything I have learned about extracting is that you want as close to an anhydrous solvent as possible for the cleanest extract. IPA is 99%. So how can that be? The water phase in EtOH is minimal, but still present. With the potential of picking up garbage. Is this correct?

Click to expand...

Not sure where you live but if you are close to the border of a state that sells culinary ethanol you can buy it in bulk and use your still to reclaim the ethanol


Tossing this out there, it may or may not help you but others may see it
I got 5 gallons for just under $300 (US) delivered, about half of what it cost to buy Everclear around here




Doing extraction, filtration and reduction myself
Extract 1:1 THC/CBD flower for edibles to give to people starting medical cannabis treatment
Helps ease them in without overwhelming psychoactive effects
Hoping to grow soon
Very interested in your work
Made some videos on filtration and infusion that I deleted
May shoot new ones

Pics and video allow people to see your process
The aesthetic presentation is secondary unless you block the camera through the whole video with the case for an Ardent FX
Some practice and dry runs help but remember that if you are doing a process with cannabis you get one REAL try unless you have materials to spare
Master small batch processing to reduce waste when mistakes happen
Scaling up is fairly easy

Washed the pucks with Everclear, strained and evaporated (mostly) went from 400 ml to 17 grams. So what is next?

Dry and purge?

jadins_journey said:

Washed the pucks with Everclear, strained and evaporated (mostly) went from 400 ml to 17 grams. So what is next?

Dry and purge?


View attachment 2357381

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Purge first and dry after? Would make sense to me but, IDK.
Looks nasty, as it always do.. hope it turn out great!

I think I would smear some on a paper and twist one up! Or break out the dab, rig or hot knives! See what you think of it, as is! 17 g seems like a pretty big return! But I don’t know that much about it! Did you filter through coffee filters?

Oldchucky said:

I think I would smear some on a paper and twist one up! Or break out the dab, rig or hot knives! See what you think of it, as is! 17 g seems like a pretty big return! But I don’t know that much about it! Did you filter through coffee filters?

Click to expand...

This wasn’t filtered as it was pucks. I’ve got the vacuum fed bukner funnel for times it’s needed. I built a purge system but never have used it, might be time to finish that project

It’s way to wet to try now, unless your an Everclear fan

Just an observation from the peanut gallery! But I would be inclined to treat it more like a Quiso! Wash it, Filter it through coffee filters, And then let it dry! If you are going to purge it, won’t you have to reconstitute it back to liquid form? I’m learning here too! And have you ever tried just breaking off a piece of a puck and throwing it in a pipe and seeing if it had any kick left in it? Or do the pressed pucks taste too funky? Should be easy enough to reconstitute! Looking forward to your results!

A good read at: https://graywolfslair.com/

Sticky icky!
Its edible ready, any ethanol left should evaporate to trace amounts over time or with processing
Purge first as stated above if you intend on inhalation