on mine its like this.

240V:
50% 2.34A @ 564W
75% 3.33A @ 806W
100% 4.28A @ 1031W
110% 4.75A @ 1140W

120V:
50% 4.72A @ 566W
75% 6.64A @ 804W
100% 8.74A @ 1052W

I found the study showing that the spectrum does shift upwards a bit when dimmed. Check out the study and let me know what you think. I hope this clears up some myths a bit.

thanks for this^^

How are u running two diff voltages? In live in both eu and america? Ya i know what the reading from ballast to the light show but the resistance to change current is in the ballast and if u know how resistors work they simply cause resistance to the flow of current. So what im saying is input current is changed in ballast and then your light recieves current. As i was stating theres really no way to tell your ballast to only draw this now. Sooner or later yeah but they just finally integrated software allowing more compatibility with bulbs and lower wattage bulbs in higher wattage ballasts. Read what a potentiometer is its a dial with varying resistances. It in no way shale or form changes input current it simply dulls it to the settings need. As i stated to change input curret youd need a special adapter plug that at the outlet makes the changes and in turn lowering input wqttage. Really not hard to grasp. Its like water flowing in a pipe, u clog the pipe some and slow the flow down but that doesnt change the input flow simpy the output flow which is after the clog. Sheesh last time i try.. Soon i will test the solis teks as i have hope that they may have accomplished manipulation of input wattage. Stop googling ohms law and giving me equations i learned that shit when i was 2. Tell me how in the world a ballast is telling the outlet and or sub panel how much watts to give it? Email? Telepathy? Because last time i check a plug didnt have a wifi connection to a digi ballast. My anology with y the plugs of cell phone chargers and video game system is done strictly for that purpose. To control the flow from the source. If u dont the plug pulls what it pulls and whqtever happens after the fact is done via resistors, diodes, triacs, mosfets, potentiometers, rheostats, transformers etc. And none of those devices will send signals backwards to the outlet saying hey just send me this many watts. Sooo easy to ubderstand even if u dont have a degree and ur just a doucher with a 5$ multimeter and google.

think of it like this. think of it as a heater. jus as a heater has various settings, so do the ballasts. so what would be the point of having a heater with lower settings if its still gona use the max consumption. why would you want less heat if your still gona pay for the max setting. the company isn't going to sell a heater that will heat at 500, 1000 and 1500 watts if its gona consume 1500 watts all the time if its set @ 500. thats as simple as i can make it.



thats my AMMETER

Tyler's analogy works, let's say you have a v-8 in your car, if you tune it down to be lower hp/weaker, would the car itself not consume less gas? I don't disagree w/ you on your knowledge of electronics, but I think your assuming too much too soon. This is so not like the dimmer you keep quoting, I've done a lot of dimmer research for fan speed controllers. The one your reffering to has more range, this is more like a triac where it has preset resistance/ohms and draw, usually in bigger steps of 25%-33% increments. also there's more than one way to dim a fan speed controller, PWM or changing the voltage w/ a variac.

I run 2 different voltages because I live in the US which is 120v and I wired up my room to do 240v because it draws 1/2 the amps.

btw I think it's "Out in the streets, they call it murder" - Damian Marley lol, I couldn't help myself.

Aerojoe said:

a variac.

Click to expand...

FTW, GOOD CALL

so i go back to taht article n start reading the glossary over.i see CWA-constant wattage autotransformer, so i immediately google variable wattage autotransformer and i get a schematic for a variable AC autotransformer or VARIAC to control a heater. :cool:

so there's the mystery solved boooya! Aerojoe is the grand prize winner lol

edit: gona get this info on the thread i did on digital ballasts. JUST realized this whole convo was in logic's quantum thread. sorrrry for the hijack :oops:

Olyver said:

Not sure about the Quantums. I saw about 150 Quantums on a pallet waiting to go back to the manufacturer in China, they were 1000w and 600w models. It's so sad that none of these electronic ballasts can be repaired in North America.

Click to expand...

Word, brother. We can build jet turbines in this country but we can't fix a damn digi? Give me a break!

...and here, Logic, is why I run magnetic ballasts; when one quit on me, I dropped it by my local hydro store and they had it fixed in less than 2 hours. I don't care how cool the digi is, someday it will break and then what? If it's out of warranty, you're screwed, that's what. Doesn't strike me as a good deal somehow, when magnetic ballasts are so standardized that off the shelf components can be used to fix nearly any brand of them.

Also, it turns out that digi ballasts do NOT necessarily run the bulbs better or brighter, or even more efficiently. It's very much a matter of how the digi was built, and with what quality components. After all, if there were no problems with running ANSI compliant 1000w bulbs at 10,000Hz, why would bulb manufacturers A. warn that using their bulbs in digi ballasts voids any warranty, and B. be coming out with digi ballasts that run at 60Hz (which, by the way, all but negates any performance advantage a digi might have over magnetic)?

Thirdly, illmind, if I were in your shoes, I would be doing a lot more learning about electrical theory and testing with quality gear and a lot less mouthing off about how you already know it all, or those who really do know it all here (that would be you, Olyver!) will continue to make you look like an idiot. Mankind only learns when ears are open and MOUTH IS SHUT.

Case in point; electricity, like any other form of energy, must obey the laws of physics- one of which is that matter or energy is never created or destroyed, it only changes form. So if a dimmable ballast (btw, that's not some dumb dimmer switch running the chandelier in your dining room, but a quality digitally controlled dimmer) always pulls the same current, then where does the excess go? If it went into heat, the ballast would be toast, literally. It cannot just 'dissipate'...

I do run several digi ballasts from several manufacturers. While I haven't had any pop yet, I have a backup mag. just in case. Also, I DO like the 'overdrive' option available on these digi ballasts, specifically to get the most out of the last few months of bulb life instead of watching my yields dwindle. Once you put 6 months or a year on a bulb, it's going to be dimmer than a new one- so I overdrive to make up for that loss, and at the end of that cycle, the bulb gets replaced, digi goes back to 100%, and me and the ladies are happy.

One more issue with modern digis is that most don't tolerate flip box setups gladly, reading the sudden change as a line fault and shutting off until someone comes to reset them. Yes, there are strategies to handle this, but a magnetic ballast doesn't need the fancy workaround, it just runs the load.

Finally, anyone who tells you that a bulbs' spectrum doesn't change when input wattage changes is either seriously misinformed or is trying to deceive you. HID bulbs work by getting very hot, which excites the electrons in the working material, which sends off photons, all closely related to the temperature the working 'filament' material is operating at. Cut the wattage and the temp. will drop, shifting the spectrum. That holds true for light bulbs, open flames, nuclear weapons and the stars themselves... So why don't the manufacturers talk about it? Because they already know this, and they don't want to be seen as 'the' bulb maker that says running their bulb below its rated wattage changes its spectrum. A digi ballast running a bulb on any setting other than 100% is by definition outside of the ASNI specification the bulb was designed to meet, whether it runs at 60Hz or not.

Aerojoe said:

Tyler's analogy works, let's say you have a v-8 in your car, if you tune it down to be lower hp/weaker, would the car itself not consume less gas? I don't disagree w/ you on your knowledge of electronics, but I think your assuming too much too soon. This is so not like the dimmer you keep quoting, I've done a lot of dimmer research for fan speed controllers. The one your reffering to has more range, this is more like a triac where it has preset resistance/ohms and draw, usually in bigger steps of 25%-33% increments. also there's more than one way to dim a fan speed controller, PWM or changing the voltage w/ a variac.

I run 2 different voltages because I live in the US which is 120v and I wired up my room to do 240v because it draws 1/2 the amps.

btw I think it's "Out in the streets, they call it murder" - Damian Marley lol, I couldn't help myself.

Click to expand...

I know what you're saying about the car thing, but usually when I lose power, my mileage goes down too- that may be an analogy where it doesn't pay to look too closely under the hood, kinda like some girlfriends I've had in the day, lol

Since you mentioned that you've done some research on fan speed controllers, maybe you can help out; I have a 8"maxfans running much of the gear I use for cooling. If I run them at any setting less than 100%, they start to buzz loudly. What kind of fan speed controller do you recommend for these units?

Aerojoe said:

I found the study showing that the spectrum does shift upwards a bit when dimmed. Check out the study and let me know what you think. I hope this clears up some myths a bit.

Click to expand...

VERY cool pdf you found! Among many other things I learned was confirmation of one of my suspicions, namely, that dimming an HID reduces its efficiency, or lumens per watt. This would seem to argue against running big bulbs on dimmed settings for long periods of time.

Illmind said:

How are u running two diff voltages? In live in both eu and america?

Click to expand...

Why are you guys wasting your time even arguing w this guy? Its so beyond pointless. He is clearly antagonizing and trying to start an arguement. He cant even grasp the fact that you can run 2 different volltages in your grow while still living in just one country. I think I peed a little I laughed so hard when I read his sentence about the 2 different voltages in one country..think I peed more just now when I said it in my head as I was typing it. I guess my 30 amp timer box was partially made in EU for the 20 amp 240v and then the other half was made in US for the 10amp 120v side??? You guys are seriously wasting your time for even responding to illminds posts. He didnt know you can run a 120 and 240 in the same grow, but you guys expect him to know the answers to your ballast questions? His lack of knowledge in the basics should be a good indicator that there is absolutely NO extensive knowledge.
illmind, you should re read the rules about insighting fights and respecting your fellow farmers. If you want to consult your magic 8 ball in regards to your responses, we cant stop you, but calling ppl names bc theyve done dilligent work and have actually investigated and conducted experiments? Btw, I consulted my magic 8 ball about running 120 and 240s in the same grow..it said, "All signs point to yes..". LOL!

ttystikk said:

I know what you're saying about the car thing, but usually when I lose power, my mileage goes down too- that may be an analogy where it doesn't pay to look too closely under the hood, kinda like some girlfriends I've had in the day, lol

Since you mentioned that you've done some research on fan speed controllers, maybe you can help out; I have a 8"maxfans running much of the gear I use for cooling. If I run them at any setting less than 100%, they start to buzz loudly. What kind of fan speed controller do you recommend for these units?

Click to expand...

Hey ttystikk, I lost many sleepless nights over this issue. Actually I lost a fan and in the process almost lost a crop, I can't be absolutely sure about the 8 inch max fans but I had a 12 inch max fan and I used to use it on a shitty fan speed controller you can get from home depot, it used to make this humming sound till one day it got worse and then finally fan just broke completely. Stop using cheap fan speed controller on your fan immediately. Luckily I got a replacement and found out that in order to dim brushless motors you need to use a Variac(changes the speed by varying the ac voltage) otherwise you'll have a $400-500 paper weight. Most other fans are not brushless so can use the typical cheap router speed controller on them.

Hmmm... so when Hydro Innovations sold me a cheap temp. controller with a rheostatic speed controller built in, that's what burned my maxfan out? I don't run the rest of them on a dimmer/speed controller, guess I lucked out!

Pretty sure all the max fans are brushless, I guess it was a tradeoff to get more power in a smaller fan.

I like magnetics and quantums seen some phantoms go back due to no strike. electrical is easy. in a digital ballst, whatever you have the knob set at is what the ballast will draw from your line coming in. In a magnetic ballast the bulb designates how much draw to pull from your line coming in. Going 240 versus 120V does not save on electricity only real benefit is you save on the size of wire you need to use to make long runs of high amperage wire. The ONLY REAL BENEFIT (in theory) TO A DIGI BALLAST IS THE HIGH FREQUENCY. in theory on a graph the seperation of wavepoints on 22khz is sooo much closer than 60hz so there is much less light loss. AC electricity goes from -120 to +120v 60 times a second (hence 60hz). so the bulb is literally shutting off and on 60 times a second(60hz is fast enough to where you cant see this happening but supposively plants can). in a 22khz digi ballast it cycles 22,000 times a second. in theory more cycling equals less time bulbs spends off at ANY GIVEN ONE CYCLE. Duration vs. cycling. SO TO SUM THIS UP A DIGI BALLAST IS BULLSHIT (My personal theory is that the duration of a bulb being off at the 60hz isnt enough damage to compare to repairs or replacement of expensive ballast) BUT WILL (not theory but factual electrical (ohms) laws) SAVE YOU MONEY IF YOU LIKE THE DIMMING FEATURE. you wanna dim buy a digi. dont care for dimming buy a magnetic. DID I MENTION TOTAL HARMONIC DISPLACEMENT IN DIGITAL BALLASTS? thats another story

ttystikk said:

Hmmm... so when Hydro Innovations sold me a cheap temp. controller with a rheostatic speed controller built in, that's what burned my maxfan out? I don't run the rest of them on a dimmer/speed controller, guess I lucked out!

Pretty sure all the max fans are brushless, I guess it was a tradeoff to get more power in a smaller fan.

Click to expand...

No, only the bigger sizes were brushless iirc. for sure 12 inch and up is brushless, pretty sure 8 and under was not brushless and could use cheaper fan speed controllers. I did a lot of research after and post breaking of my fan.

Aerojoe said:

No, only the bigger sizes were brushless iirc. for sure 12 inch and up is brushless, pretty sure 8 and under was not brushless and could use cheaper fan speed controllers. I did a lot of research after and post breaking of my fan.

Click to expand...

I can tell you for sure that the 8" maxfans are brushless and need VARIAC controllers.

recreationaluse said:

I like magnetics and quantums seen some phantoms go back due to no strike. electrical is easy. in a digital ballst, whatever you have the knob set at is what the ballast will draw from your line coming in. In a magnetic ballast the bulb designates how much draw to pull from your line coming in. Going 240 versus 120V does not save on electricity only real benefit is you save on the size of wire you need to use to make long runs of high amperage wire. The ONLY REAL BENEFIT (in theory) TO A DIGI BALLAST IS THE HIGH FREQUENCY. in theory on a graph the seperation of wavepoints on 22khz is sooo much closer than 60hz so there is much less light loss. AC electricity goes from -120 to +120v 60 times a second (hence 60hz). so the bulb is literally shutting off and on 60 times a second(60hz is fast enough to where you cant see this happening but supposively plants can). in a 22khz digi ballast it cycles 22,000 times a second. in theory more cycling equals less time bulbs spends off at ANY GIVEN ONE CYCLE. Duration vs. cycling. SO TO SUM THIS UP A DIGI BALLAST IS BULLSHIT (My personal theory is that the duration of a bulb being off at the 60hz isnt enough damage to compare to repairs or replacement of expensive ballast) BUT WILL (not theory but factual electrical (ohms) laws) SAVE YOU MONEY IF YOU LIKE THE DIMMING FEATURE. you wanna dim buy a digi. dont care for dimming buy a magnetic. DID I MENTION TOTAL HARMONIC DISPLACEMENT IN DIGITAL BALLASTS? thats another story

Click to expand...

Couple things here; first, the actual ANSI S52 standard for HID bulbs was, and remains 60Hz. If you go with a digi ballast be sure to get bulbs that can take the higher frequencies.

Second, and much more important; dimming your HID bulbs shortens their lifespan and accelerates their light depreciation curve. This effect is minor on HPS- although you will still be really hurting your PAR/watt statistic- and it is very serious on MH bulbs; if you run a MH bulb at 50% of its rated power, you'll shorten its lifespan by up to 90%! It seems the gasses in the MH bulb just can't take the low power; they end up making that black crud all over the inside of the arc tube. The same paper I read did not discuss the consequences of running your bulbs on overdrive, and since the underdriving results were so far out of my expectations, I would not want to guess what it would do to them.

The paper I referenced above is linked here:

If you're looking for a lighting system that produces more useable light for your plants on a per watt basis, right now the best choice is either LED- and that set of tradeoffs- or the new Gavita/Philips Proline Greenpower series, in 600w, and especially the 1000w DE, or double ended bulb. They produce more PAR light per watt than any other HID and as a bonus, they're rating their bulb life pretty highly; 95% of initial light output after a full year of use, and >90% at two years! These are designed from the beginning to use a digital 400v ballast, unlike the more traditional 250v ballast that powers conventional HID. This means they are NOT compatible with older style bulbs, so don't try to use them!

Pricey, but if the claims are true, they'll pay for themselves within a few cycles, let alone the whole two years. Also, Gavita tends to not hype their gear as much as others in the industry; they've long been considered the gold standard of horticultural lighting in Europe, so they don't need the marketing buzz the smaller less establishing lighting companies do.

ttystikk said:

I can tell you for sure that the 8" maxfans are brushless and need VARIAC controllers.

Click to expand...

Good 2 know, I thought it said on the pdf files on the website that just 12 and 14(maybe 10 also? not sure on the shape of 10 but I know that 12 and 14 are low pro inline fans) were brushless and would require you to get ripped off by buying there special fan speed controller for 300 bills which is just a Variac. Also thought the rest of there fan lineup was the same as all the others w/ the same shape/design but different brand name slapped on it. I've since moved away from these hydro ripoff brands, due to lack of warranty, not standing behind there products.

I think some people are missing one of the main uses of dimmable ballasts. That would be to decrease the light toward the end of the grow. I use a 100w Phantom. I keep it at 1000w until week 7 on a 10 week strain. Then I reduce it to 750w for weeks 8 and 9, then down to 600w week 10. This prevents new pistils from forming and helps the plants finish properly and the buds stay dense.

Also Phantom specifically states in the manual that you can only use bulbs the same wattage as the undimmed ballast wattage. So if you have a 1000w ballast you need to use a 1000w bulb. The reason is because even if you have it dimmed to 600w when the ballast first comes fires up it comes on at 1000w for the first 10-15 minutes then goes down to your dimmed wattage selection. It does this to prolong bulb life. It is better for the bulb to be fired up at the rated wattage and then dimmed after properly warmed up.