DIY LED with COBs - small medium and large grows

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HughJassBud

HughJassBud

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I'm running 315W worth of COBs in an 1x1m tent and get the temperature to raise 10°C above ambient temperature if the tent stays closed and my exhaust on high. Even at the highest efficacy like 50% you still have half of the power provided to ypur lights turned into heat which you'll have to get rid of.

Water cooling is an option but so is an enclosure with intake of cold air from outside the room being exhausted again outside the room so no smell management is needed.

yeah, a closed system like that is what im running now. Pulling from the attic and then pushing it back in. It mostly works and because I live in the dessert the nights are pretty cool most of the time. I just have to avoid the day as much as possible. Still, even using this method, leaks in the hoods, vent seals, etc. result in some contamination of this air. Sometimes I swear you would think I was slaughtering skunks in the back yard. I finally broke down and bought a 12" inline fan and some massive carbon filter that i just leave running in the room, constantly turning the air over. It does a pretty good job.
 
HughJassBud

HughJassBud

89
33
Ok, as I think about this more 1kw of anything is going to put off some heat. Assuming I run 20 of those CXB3590's @ 72V, 700mA that will equate to about 1000watts. Between the drivers and everything I think it will have to be vented in order to be viable. I wonder, if you know it will be vented in series with another hood using a 6" inline fan, can you design a panel and heatsink inside a traditional hood that would not require additional fans on the heatsink itself.

Raptor hoods bootton surface where the glass is at is about 42 x 31 inches i think. heatsink usa makes 10 inch width heatsinks that Realstyles uses in whatever length you want. Would it be reasonable to have 4 of these, 31 inches long with 5 cobs each and one driver each put side by side to basically fill the 31 x 42 inch footprint? Is that overkill?
 
sixstring

sixstring

7,079
313
Ok, as I think about this more 1kw of anything is going to put off some heat. Assuming I run 20 of those CXB3590's @ 72V, 700mA that will equate to about 1000watts. Between the drivers and everything I think it will have to be vented in order to be viable. I wonder, if you know it will be vented in series with another hood using a 6" inline fan, can you design a panel and heatsink inside a traditional hood that would not require additional fans on the heatsink itself.

Raptor hoods bootton surface where the glass is at is about 42 x 31 inches i think. heatsink usa makes 10 inch width heatsinks that Realstyles uses in whatever length you want. Would it be reasonable to have 4 of these, 31 inches long with 5 cobs each and one driver each put side by side to basically fill the 31 x 42 inch footprint? Is that overkill?

Too many cobs in such a small space imo.maybe split em up so its 10 cobs in each hood.even then its kinda tight pattern for 50w cobs
 
HughJassBud

HughJassBud

89
33
Yeah, its hard to tell what is appropriate. A big part of what I'm basing this off is Realstyels DIY over at ICmag forums. There he used 8 CXB3590's on a 10" x 24" heatsink.

He said that at full power (72v, 700mA, 50w/COB) he expected about 3' by 4' coverage, maybe 4' by 4'

Looking at other grows on here using similar lighting it seems like 1.2 to 1.4 grams per watt is reasonable using COB's.

So, in terms of coverage. I need each light to cover roughly 3' x 5'.

In terms of yield, I would like to see about 900 grams out of a 3' by 5' area.

So, It seems to me like somewhere in the neighborhood of 14 CXB 3590's would be appropriate for the given footprint. That would consume around 700 watts running at 72v, 700mA.

Based on the for-mentioned 1.2 g/w, I think that would be good for at least 840 grams off a 3' x 5' canopy area. This would meet my needs I think.

Maybe even 12 or 10 would be enough, but I'm concerned I wouldn't be able to achieve my target yield/area with less than about 700 watts.
 
HughJassBud

HughJassBud

89
33
I went ahead and ordered these. I'm not completely sure how I will use them yet, but I think this will be a good start!

16 x CXB3590 3500K CD 72V 80RA

5 x CXB3590 5000K CD 72V

5 x HLG-185H-c700

1 x HLG-60H-c700

21 x ideal holders 50-2303CR


Do any of you have any other good ideas for enclosures? An aluminum box? Cheap hood? Burlap Sack?

I still haven't decided how best to enclose these but I would appreciate any suggestions. Its important I'm able to vent them like my current setup....
Upload 2016 6 2 3 59 5

It's dusty.....I need to clean some more before plants start going back in!


I looked through a bunch of your thread Sixer, nice buds in their. You are probably right about only needing 10 COB's. The way I purchased my drivers I think I will want to run the COB's in series of 4. So I will probably end up with 12 - CXB3590's @ 700mA, 72V in a single fixture. I noticed you like to make light "bars" in that they are in a single row. You said you get roughly 2 x 5 coverage off a bar. Perhaps this is the way to go in bars of 4. If I could do it in such a way as to make it modular.

I ordered an "extra" COB and small driver just so I could practice making a small light and check out the coverage it provides. I will probably try it out in my 2 x 4 tent where I mostly clone. Running at 50 watts its a pretty fair comparison to a single T5 @ 54w. We'll see how it goes. Either way I'm sure it will be a couple weeks before these parts arrive.

HJB
 
sixstring

sixstring

7,079
313
you will be surprised how bright those lil fuckers are lol.when i first turned on my 5 x 36w setup i was shocked how bright it was even at full dim,but turned up it def not sometyhing you ever want to look directly at haha.most guys try to follow the 1 cob per sq ft theory,i have mine spaced at 12 inch.you idea to use a raptor is a good one,i just would not use more than 6 or 8 cobs in there if it was my project.i woud rather have 3 hoods ith 7 cobs each instead of one hood with 20 lights crammed in it,just for the coverage.if you havent bought your heatsinks yet check out pacific light concepts,he is stocking these new pin fin heatsinks like those you saw in my pics,and he has very reasonable prices,plus shipping from cali instead of china.
but if your going to really do that raptor build i think the flat bar style hs might be a better option.not sure your aware of this guy but his videos are extremly helpfull and hs grows back up his diy work,check em out.

 
HughJassBud

HughJassBud

89
33
I quickly sketched something up so you can see the dimensions of the light. This should all be to scale. The radius of those COB's is actually the radius of the holders, so they will actually be a little smaller but that does a good job of indicating the distance from center to center.

Upload 2016 6 2 23 1 46

As you can see, they are basically 12" off center from each other using 12 COB's. Is this what you had in mind with 12" off center?
 
sixstring

sixstring

7,079
313
yeah man that would be one badass hood if you pulled it off.i didnt realize how fuckin big those hoods are lol
 
HughJassBud

HughJassBud

89
33
yeah man that would be one badass hood if you pulled it off.i didnt realize how fuckin big those hoods are lol

I'll pull it off :cool: <-----that will be me admiring my new light!!!! The parts are incoming, I will probably use some pin style heat sinks like you suggested. I'm going to see what I can do about getting some sent from China tonight that are roughly the same dimensions as the ones you suggested from pacific light. $16 a piece is a little steep for my budget. Ideally I will come up with some good DIY kits to convert standard vented hoods to superior COB LED style hoods which I can then share with everyone else.

As far as the other materials go, the plan at the moment is to replace the glass from the hood with a piece of .303 sheet aluminium. I may need to use a little angle iron to reinforce it, but I think this should be able to support the cob's and heatsinks. Ill need to drill out holes of course as indicated in the diagram I posted previously. The existing HPS hardware and reflector will be removed to free up space. There is a company that makes custom cables pretty inexpensively where I live. I will have them make me a wire set with some sort of connectors that I can plug into my drivers and run from the hood. Ideally I would like to combine everything into a single cable/connector and have a wiring harness at both sides to split it up. This, clearly labeled, would help to avoid confusion when moving things or changing configurations. I think it would lend a bit of professionalism to the project as well.

My only real concern now is whether or not I will be able to place the cobs 3" on center from the edge of the hood. I think the heat sinks may interfere. I won't know for sure until I've selected a heat sink and measured everything though.

The only other thing I am debating is whether or not to run lenses on these. 110 degrees seems like it will product a pretty good footprint without interference, but my concern is with moisture, dust, suicidal mosquitoes, etc.
 
sixstring

sixstring

7,079
313
plc prices on the pin sinks are very competitive,heres a almost identical heatsink https://www.cdiweb.com/ProductDetail/LPF11180ZHEB--mechatronix/573584/
start factoring shipping and they go right up there lol. anyway,i dont think you really need these style hs for a cooled hood style build.the pin fins need no extra cooling other than your normal grow room air flow,thats what makes them appealing.im thinking you can source some cheap ass flat style heat sinks like mars uses for your build being that its cooling is the strong point. or use some super cheap cpu coolers,you wont need the fans with these but it gives you another option and theres hundreds of cpu coolers out there. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186062
 
HughJassBud

HughJassBud

89
33
Just to satisfy my curiosity for the hypothetical.........

This would be the spacing for 20 COB's in the same footprint/design.

Upload 2016 6 3 16 41 22


And 16 COB's

Upload 2016 6 3 16 45 41


20 is almost certainly overkill. 16 though, doesn't look so crazy to me. My other thought is that its not hard to dim these lights if I find they're too bright.... in fact I think there is an efficiency gain at lower amperage. However, trying to get bigger drivers and make any number of them brighter seems like it could lead to complications.

My other thought is that I think there are some who are concerned this may be a waste of time and effort on my part. Not that have posted here, but other friends of mine and people that have helped me in the past. I want to be able to show definitive proof that not only can I replace a 1000w HPS with these COB's, but surpass it in every way. So, I'm on the fence on how many to use. It adds another $250+ to the total build cost for every 4 cobs I add, so I have to consider that as well. I know there must be a point of diminishing return, I'm just not sure where that point is.
 
HughJassBud

HughJassBud

89
33
plc prices on the pin sinks are very competitive,heres a almost identical heatsink https://www.cdiweb.com/ProductDetail/LPF11180ZHEB--mechatronix/573584/
start factoring shipping and they go right up there lol. anyway,i dont think you really need these style hs for a cooled hood style build.the pin fins need no extra cooling other than your normal grow room air flow,thats what makes them appealing.im thinking you can source some cheap ass flat style heat sinks like mars uses for your build being that its cooling is the strong point. or use some super cheap cpu coolers,you wont need the fans with these but it gives you another option and theres hundreds of cpu coolers out there. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186062


In terms of thermal efficiency I really like those pin ones you showed me first. Also, what if my inline fan shits the bed and there is stagnant air in the hood? Then I think it would be good to have a heat sink that might be able to keep the COB's from cooking.

I have been talking to some distributors off alibaba. I'm not sure what the shipping will be like yet, but I can get 50 heat sinks drilled and tapped for $300 based on the people I've talked to so far. They would be of similar dimensions to the ones at pacific lights. That's $6 a piece before shipping, which is a lot more reasonable. Eventually I would like to make 4 of these and some veg lights. So its not a big deal to order more if it saves me some money in the long run.
 
levradus

levradus

17
3
Hello everyone Im new here and my country does not let me obtaind those materials easily like on ebays or other manufacturers...

Thank you for such marvelous post and thank you for putting one more brick on my back after lots of research like weeks but not constantly..
I have seen and read couple different things all the time from limited material options of mine
( Cree not the one I can get in my country or order from ebay after paypal is closed )

CONFUSION NUMBER 1

All the time I see red and blue leds for grow then it changes full spectrum as I learned from those 660nm and 450nm what I need
Soo then I decided to put
70 Red - 20 Blue - 10 warmwhite
After seeing your post u just use white cobs in different kelvins soo those chips are much more cheaper than my red blue chips I thought I can go for it
Question: apart from red blue thing, just a right kelvin output white lights like warm white and cool white are enough to make my plants grow well ?

currently I found OSRAM SSL 80degrees provider in my country and I only have space like
0.5meter x 1.5 meter and height is 2meter its a closet my girlfriend gift it to me but Im still locked and shitting while growing magnificent buds like yours
Lately I bought 120 watt led and tried now my bud are notgrowing enough turned out china maid led is smd and not enough.
What should I do ?
For this space
Should I go 70 red 20 blue 10 warm white osram ssl 80 degree


Or go white cob ? And how much wattage
I know I talk like Im trying to make you not understand me but i am such lost :(
 
levradus

levradus

17
3
Im literally fucked up while settin a DIY LED project for my 1,5sqfeet closet
Please look those emitters

My final decision is 70 red 20 blue 5 white 5 green
Total 100 led and in my country they sell 0,65 euro each tell me your opinions please
------------
I was almost sure finally gonna build right thing w/o doubt I just need your good thoughts please help me to complete this project my plants failing and failing for two years finally Im gonna gathered some money to spend on this
---
Driver pcb cooler advises well accepted
If anyone want to help and share hisorher thoughts deeply with me
[email protected]
+905547740824
Currently working on a ship lota of times to set a project on a paper please help me to make it finest
Good luck u
 
HughJassBud

HughJassBud

89
33
I got my cxb3590's in the mail yesterday. Today I took them with me to work and threw them under the microscope just for shits and giggles. Let me remind you that on a cxb3590 there are 100 of these diodes pictured. All in a diameter of about 32.5mm These things are just super neat to me.

Diode through 20x objective (really only see half of it here)

Upload 2016 6 7 22 23 29


Diode at 5x objective (this is the first one on the positive corner, thus the lead to nowhere)
Upload 2016 6 7 22 30 32
 
HughJassBud

HughJassBud

89
33
Im literally fucked up while settin a DIY LED project for my 1,5sqfeet closet
Please look those emitters

My final decision is 70 red 20 blue 5 white 5 green
Total 100 led and in my country they sell 0,65 euro each tell me your opinions please
------------
I was almost sure finally gonna build right thing w/o doubt I just need your good thoughts please help me to complete this project my plants failing and failing for two years finally Im gonna gathered some money to spend on this
---
Driver pcb cooler advises well accepted
If anyone want to help and share hisorher thoughts deeply with me
[email protected]
+905547740824
Currently working on a ship lota of times to set a project on a paper please help me to make it finest
Good luck u

I's sure there are some that will disagree with me about this, but I have avoided LED up until now primarily as a result of the Inverse Square Law of Light
Upload 2016 6 7 22 59 23


Basically, this translates to bud density IMO. This is the ONLY advantage (in terms of plant growth) I find in a 1000 watt bulb vs a 600 watt bulb aside from a slightly larger coverage area and depth. Which is the next things this factors into. If you are growing your plants somewhat short and stocky, low-intensity, high-volume LEDs will probably be quite effective. Others can speak to this better than me.

On the other hand, if you are trying to replace a HPS fixture in a flower environment, you will need a relatively high point source to penetrate and effectively illuminate taller plant's potato size nuggets. LED's, to me, are really interesting in that you can achieve this a couple different ways.

I have seen some people simply hang LED's everywhere around a plant for example so that there was always a relatively intense source of light close by to whatever needed growing. This seems like it works pretty well for a closet situation or cabinet grow for example where plant height is limited and other factors are in favor of that type of design.

Now, technology of LED's has improved tremendously. Not only are they more efficient, but they are brighter as well. I am not as abreast of single diode technology, but I have read a little about 3w, 5w, and 10w diodes. The 3w diode, capable of penetrating 3-5ft effectively, I think is really where the peak efficiency to penetration is found on today's current technology based on my research. This is mostly a product of thermal dissipation. 5w and 10w diodes just put off too much heat and as such can not be packed as tightly together without increased risk of thermal failure. However, as per the illustration above, they would of course have greater penetration. Again, I haven't yet used any of this technology, I have just thoroughly considered it over the years and watched it develop.

Fast forward to COB technology. I didn't really see it going this way, but it seems logical. These are actually packing 100-1w diodes on a single chip. Because they are so densely populated you can essentially consider this "r" in the above illustration. So, they effectively work together like a single, very bright point source. The coverage and penetration should be much greater as a result of this as well.

I can't really say this next part better than wikipedia...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthetically_active_radiation

Yield photon flux[edit]

Weighting factor for photosynthesis. The photon-weighted curve is for converting PPFD to YPF; the energy-weighted curve is for weighting PAR expressed in watts or joules.
PAR as described above does not distinguish between different wavelengths between 400 and 700 nm, and assumes that wavelengths outside this range have zero photosynthetic action. If the exact spectrum of the light is known, the photosynthetic photon flux density (PPFD) values in μmol/s can be modified by applying different weighting factor to different wavelengths. This results in a quantity called the yield photon flux (YPF).[3] The red curve in the graph shows that photons around 610 nm (orange-red) have the highest amount of photosynthesis per photon. However, because short-wavelength photons carry more energy per photon, the maximum amount of photosynthesis per incident unit of energy is at a longer wavelength, around 650 nm (deep red).

It has been noted that there is considerable misunderstanding over the effect of light quality on plant growth and many manufacturers claim significantly increased plant growth due to light quality (spectral distribution or the ratio of the colors).[4] A widely used estimate of the effect of light quality on photosynthesis comes from the Yield Photon Flux (YPF) curve, which indicates that orange and red photons between 600 to 630 nm can result in 20 to 30% more photosynthesis than blue or cyan photons between 400 and 540 nm.[5]

The YPF curve was developed from short-term measurements made on single leaves in low light. Some longer-term studies with whole plants in higher light indicate that light quality may have a smaller effect on plant growth rate than light quantity.[6]


What I take from this is that overall intensity is maybe slightly more important than specific wavelength....but I think the jury is still out on this. From the standpoint of the specific wavelengths you chose vs "white" COB lights, white light is just a combination of all the visible spectrum. So, you will be covered on all fronts with a "white" light. That being said, there are different colors of these lights expressed as ~6500k - 2700k. Higher numbers are more blue, lower numbers are more red. So just like floro's, you just choose a COB based on the application but you can expect good performance in any case because these are relatively efficient in both the red and blue spectrum.

I hope this was helpful to you. There are numerous threads with good info about LED's from people a lot smarter and more experienced than me. I know a little about physics and engineering, so I just try to lend that perspective.

Happy Growing and Good Luck!
 
levradus

levradus

17
3
Th
I's sure there are some that will disagree with me about this, but I have avoided LED up until now primarily as a result of the Inverse Square Law of Light
View attachment 606318

Basically, this translates to bud density IMO. This is the ONLY advantage (in terms of plant growth) I find in a 1000 watt bulb vs a 600 watt bulb aside from a slightly larger coverage area and depth. Which is the next things this factors into. If you are growing your plants somewhat short and stocky, low-intensity, high-volume LEDs will probably be quite effective. Others can speak to this better than me.

On the other hand, if you are trying to replace a HPS fixture in a flower environment, you will need a relatively high point source to penetrate and effectively illuminate taller plant's potato size nuggets. LED's, to me, are really interesting in that you can achieve this a couple different ways.

I have seen some people simply hang LED's everywhere around a plant for example so that there was always a relatively intense source of light close by to whatever needed growing. This seems like it works pretty well for a closet situation or cabinet grow for example where plant height is limited and other factors are in favor of that type of design.

Now, technology of LED's has improved tremendously. Not only are they more efficient, but they are brighter as well. I am not as abreast of single diode technology, but I have read a little about 3w, 5w, and 10w diodes. The 3w diode, capable of penetrating 3-5ft effectively, I think is really where the peak efficiency to penetration is found on today's current technology based on my research. This is mostly a product of thermal dissipation. 5w and 10w diodes just put off too much heat and as such can not be packed as tightly together without increased risk of thermal failure. However, as per the illustration above, they would of course have greater penetration. Again, I haven't yet used any of this technology, I have just thoroughly considered it over the years and watched it develop.

Fast forward to COB technology. I didn't really see it going this way, but it seems logical. These are actually packing 100-1w diodes on a single chip. Because they are so densely populated you can essentially consider this "r" in the above illustration. So, they effectively work together like a single, very bright point source. The coverage and penetration should be much greater as a result of this as well.

I can't really say this next part better than wikipedia...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthetically_active_radiation

Yield photon flux[edit]

Weighting factor for photosynthesis. The photon-weighted curve is for converting PPFD to YPF; the energy-weighted curve is for weighting PAR expressed in watts or joules.
PAR as described above does not distinguish between different wavelengths between 400 and 700 nm, and assumes that wavelengths outside this range have zero photosynthetic action. If the exact spectrum of the light is known, the photosynthetic photon flux density (PPFD) values in μmol/s can be modified by applying different weighting factor to different wavelengths. This results in a quantity called the yield photon flux (YPF).[3] The red curve in the graph shows that photons around 610 nm (orange-red) have the highest amount of photosynthesis per photon. However, because short-wavelength photons carry more energy per photon, the maximum amount of photosynthesis per incident unit of energy is at a longer wavelength, around 650 nm (deep red).

It has been noted that there is considerable misunderstanding over the effect of light quality on plant growth and many manufacturers claim significantly increased plant growth due to light quality (spectral distribution or the ratio of the colors).[4] A widely used estimate of the effect of light quality on photosynthesis comes from the Yield Photon Flux (YPF) curve, which indicates that orange and red photons between 600 to 630 nm can result in 20 to 30% more photosynthesis than blue or cyan photons between 400 and 540 nm.[5]

The YPF curve was developed from short-term measurements made on single leaves in low light. Some longer-term studies with whole plants in higher light indicate that light quality may have a smaller effect on plant growth rate than light quantity.[6]


What I take from this is that overall intensity is maybe slightly more important than specific wavelength....but I think the jury is still out on this. From the standpoint of the specific wavelengths you chose vs "white" COB lights, white light is just a combination of all the visible spectrum. So, you will be covered on all fronts with a "white" light. That being said, there are different colors of these lights expressed as ~6500k - 2700k. Higher numbers are more blue, lower numbers are more red. So just like floro's, you just choose a COB based on the application but you can expect good performance in any case because these are relatively efficient in both the red and blue spectrum.

I hope this was helpful to you. There are numerous threads with good info about LED's from people a lot smarter and more experienced than me. I know a little about physics and engineering, so I just try to lend that perspective.

Happy Growing and Good Luck!

Thank you its really tought me well,
The thing is I do not have access cree cobs in my country in order to get them from wwide i have to pay extra extra money, soo I will go some other brands cob or osrams mono leds, also osram cobs available I hope .. But everyone in this forum talks like while Crees cobs have 10x effect on plants other brands cobs 1x effects..
Couple cobs available to me :
http://www.ilker.com.tr/urunler/kategori/COB-LED/132







could you please check them and advise me
 
J

jdb420

30
18
The heat that these larger diodes make is from them being less efficient. The wattage of the diode is irrelevant. The best cobs by cree only use one watt diodes, and penetrate as well as anything else on the market. The thing to look for is not the wattage of the diode, but the lumen output per watt consumed. The cree cxb is about 173 lumens per watt, using the 3500 kelvin cd bin 36 volt 1400 mah, running at 50 watts. Most diodes are between 50 to 75 lumens per watt. This will tell you how much per watt is being converted to light, and how much is being lost to heat. The bigger diodes are making less light and more heat in most cases. Focus not on the wattage of the diode, but the lumens per watt. That will tell you how efficient your diode is. Just know that the extra money you pay for better diodes will be spent on heat removal if you go the cheaper route. And you will be wasting more electricity on less efficient diodes, and even more electricity after that on fans or ac trying to remove the heat they create. So, try to find out the btu of the lights you want to buy and compare them to other lights on the market. Unfortunately, the best way to get great coverage with these 3590 cobs is to build your own light. The time invested will be worthwhile the very first harvest. I used to think that the 3 watt diodes were the best too, until I discovered the cree 3590 using one watt diodes. And the cxb 3590 is one of the best options right now. Just know you get out if something what you put into it. And this is definitely a worthy cause. Hope you figure out what you want to build, and go for it. Let us know what you think and the results of your grow. Good luck and happy growing to you !
 
HughJassBud

HughJassBud

89
33
The heat that these larger diodes make is from them being less efficient. The wattage of the diode is irrelevant. The best cobs by cree only use one watt diodes, and penetrate as well as anything else on the market. The thing to look for is not the wattage of the diode, but the lumen output per watt consumed. The cree cxb is about 173 lumens per watt, using the 3500 kelvin cd bin 36 volt 1400 mah, running at 50 watts. Most diodes are between 50 to 75 lumens per watt. This will tell you how much per watt is being converted to light, and how much is being lost to heat. The bigger diodes are making less light and more heat in most cases. Focus not on the wattage of the diode, but the lumens per watt. That will tell you how efficient your diode is. Just know that the extra money you pay for better diodes will be spent on heat removal if you go the cheaper route. And you will be wasting more electricity on less efficient diodes, and even more electricity after that on fans or ac trying to remove the heat they create. So, try to find out the btu of the lights you want to buy and compare them to other lights on the market. Unfortunately, the best way to get great coverage with these 3590 cobs is to build your own light. The time invested will be worthwhile the very first harvest. I used to think that the 3 watt diodes were the best too, until I discovered the cree 3590 using one watt diodes. And the cxb 3590 is one of the best options right now. Just know you get out if something what you put into it. And this is definitely a worthy cause. Hope you figure out what you want to build, and go for it. Let us know what you think and the results of your grow. Good luck and happy growing to you !
Yeah, this what I was getting at. If using single diode LED, 3 watt is the way to go. If you can use COB'S though they essentially perform like one single large LED (point source), thus making them better. He is absolutely right about efficiency/heat. Spend the extra money today for the better technology or spend it tomorrow on electricity/heat mitigation
 

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