Doctors who recommend more plants?

[Seamaiden]

Who told you you're immune from arrest? This is diametrically opposed to what my attorney has told me. He's the guy who I would call should I need representation, but much more pertinently, there's nothing legally that truly protects a cardholder from arrest. No city may impose any of their own (plant count per patient) limits whether or not you're a cardholder, there is nothing in 215 or case law that allows this.

That's why the crap with dispensaries, co-ops and collectives is happening, along with other cities taxing medical grows by square footage. There *are* cities, as I understand, that are outlawing growing within limits altogether. I believe this will need to be hashed out in the courts, and I believe that unless 215 is amended that the courts will continue to land on the side of a more strict interpretation of 215. Just my opinion on that stuff, of course.

One of the issues that made this court decision such a problem, outside the fact that 215 was written the way it was, is that they retained the ID system, and said that by simple virtue of participation the carrier is agreeing to self-limit. Don't carry the card and you haven't self-limited. If your doctor is setting limits, either get them to change how they write a recommendation or get a new doctor who's better informed (i.e. has his/her own lawyer).

***Edit***And, Abob, I think it's actually better that you're letting us have this discussion, kind of on your back as it were, because it helps everyone stay on top of things. Stuff keeps changing.

Danny, I try my best. I figure if I've been there and done that, can speak to something directly, maybe I can save others the headache of learning as they go. :)

 

[amstercal]

Agreed the discussion is good. And, Abob, didn't mean to make you feel jumped on about the info. There's just a lot of info out there and I like to try to weed through it.

Ugh, no pun intended.

 

[Abob]

Seamaiden I read it "HEALTH AND SAFETY CODE SECTION 11362.7-11362.83 "MEDICAL MARIJUANA PROGRAM ACT" 11362.71 paragraph (e) No person or designated primary caregiver in possession of a valid identification card shall be subject to arrest for possession, transportation, delivery, or cultivation of medical marijuana in an amount established pursuant to this article, unless there is reasonable cause to believe that the information contained in the card is false or falsified, the card has been obtained by means of fraud, or the person is otherwise in violation of the provisions of this article.
I received a copy a year or so ago. I was going to all kinds of info seminars to learn as much as possible. Granted those seminars are there to make money, and some are there to inform you of your rights.

O la I'm Back. I just picked up my new PHYSICIAN'S STATEMENT that now reads: This patient's needs for his/her medical condition(s) can exceed SB420 guidelines. Patient may grow any amount of plants (less than 90) that will fit under a 100 sq. ft. (10ft X 10ft) canopy area. patient may posses up to 6 (six) pounds of dried buds (flowers).

amstercal, no problem. I'm still trying to get my head round all these different issues in order to protect myself from lengthly court battles and costs. I will be seeing our cooperative's attorneys' in order to clarify unclear information. At least its on the table and being brought up. As I said before if I have put out the wrong information it is truley from ignorance and I will do what it takes to clear it up.
Abob

 

[Seamaiden]

I get ya, Abob, and have worked hard also to get myself as educated as I possibly could. That's why I go directly to the legal eagles. The code you're quoting appears to be from SB420. The People vs Kelly struck almost all of SB420 down. Go to section C, is this what you're referring to? My own suggestion, strongly made, is to directly consult an attorney, someone who will have your interests as their primary interest. That attorney may in fact reassure you that you are indeed completely immune from arrest. Mine stated otherwise, my own experience tells me nothing makes anyone immune from arrest ever, because cops can and will do exactly as they please and no little card is going to be so magic that it actually truly protects.

Of course, I could also talk about how my own son carries an ID card and has still been arrested and the charge they tried to put on him was smuggling. Smuggling 2oz of weed in one of those fake beer cans he'd stuck in the very back of his Jeep so, were he to be pulled over, they couldn't say that he had easy access and thus charge him with DUI. He was a little over a mile from home--smuggling. Spent a week in the big LA county jail downtown, the high-rise jail. That's not such good immunity, is it?

Personally, I don't like your physician's statement because s/he is specifying not only amounts, but referring back to SB420. That physician is behind the curve, IMO. This is how my own doc words his reco's.

PHYSICIAN'S STATEMENT

This certifies that ____________________, born on _________________ was examined in my office. He/she has a serious medical condition which, in my professional opinion, may benefit from the use of medical cannabis. I have discussed the potential risks and benefits of medical cannabis with teh above named person. I approve his/her use of cannabis as medicine.

Use of this medication alone, with alcohol or other mind-altering medications, may produce physical or mental impairment affecting the performance of potentially dangerous tasks. Use caution until you know how this medication affects you. Use the least amount of medical cannabis needed to relieve symptoms.
I recommend that you do not use tobacco. Please use discretion and respect the rights of others.
I recommend that this approval be renewed within one year from the above date.

That very first paragraph is all that's needed in your doctor's recommendation. No discussion of amounts, certainly no discussion or referral back to an essentially now voided piece of legislation. My doc has his own attorney as well who he consulted to devise this recommendation.

 

[Abob]

Seamaiden, Sorry to hear about the run in with the justice system. I know exactly to well what your saying. Once in the hands of the authorities its all up to their interpretation of the law and I as a law bidding citizen your rights are in their hands. Of coarse your not heard until the arraignment. Hence the reason for me registering and purchasing the state ID card. I shutter and hate that feeling of having no rights.
I will be in a Q & A with my attorney this next week.for I am pursuing a contract grow.
I will also have him look over this new rec. Thanks for the heads up and the information. Abob

 

[GreenThumbBill]

Seamaiden, why does your doctor recommend renewing your approval in a year? Is there a chance your condition is going to improve and you will no longer benefit from using Cannabis? How much does he charge you to see him and get a recommendation each year?

I guess I assumed that one of the added benefits of not having to register with the state would be not having to pay a window dressing tax each year and that includes doctor's fees.

 

[crom]

San Bernardino County is now saying that you can't grow outdoors due to cannabis plants growing tall and passersby could want to break in or try to steal our plants. Sooo maybe large tvs should be illegal as well, since you can see mine from the sidewalk and someone might want to steal it. Cali needs to pull their heads out of their 3rd point of contact. 215 has been around long enough to figure something out.

My rec says:

"Limits Exemption: State Guidelines not adequate for patient's requirements. Allow for more as needed."

When my rec expired I just told my doc that my tolerance was high and I needed more meds to satisfy my medical requirements. He said okay and filled out the proper paperwork. I asked how much I was good for and he said, "Don't worry about it you'll be okay". My dr is one of the doctors that the state id program "recommended" and is apart of the THCF group. I have taken part in the state id program for that piece of mind that I attempted to cover all bases. As far as I understand it if you have just a doctors rec you will be arrested and will be verified later, ie "downtown". If you have the state id, aka you greased the states palms, you have a better chance of being let go on site rather than going downtown. Also I was told by someone that since the state card is from the state and it is THEIR database it should be a more reliable verification process for the police you are dealing with. Now this is my experience thus far and haven't had a run in, knock on wood. I am looking at moving up north to get a bit off the grid for multiple reasons as well. I don't flirt with the 99 plant count because for personal consumption it's not needed. The plant count only goes up during large seed runs, cloning, and mother plants.

Cheers,
Crom

 

[mrbong73]

There's nowhere on my rec that states anything about plant limits. I also received a Grower's Certificate which is embossed with my license and Dr. sig.
Is this standard for everyone?
My rec is only good for one year at a time too.

 

[crom]

There's nowhere on my rec that states anything about plant limits. I also received a Grower's Certificate which is embossed with my license and Dr. sig.
Is this standard for everyone?
My rec is only good for one year at a time too.

My rec is different than the other rec w/o the limit exemption. I don't know anything about a "grower's cert" though. My rec is good for a year as well.

Cheers,
Crom

 

[dextr0]

This is my understanding when u dont now your constitutional rights and how to up hold them.

2.1: Should I hire an attorney to represent me in court?

This article is from the Lawful Arrest/Search/Seizure FAQ, by Ahimsa Dhamapada [email protected] with numerous contributions by others.

2.1: Should I hire an attorney to represent me in court?


You tried to live a good and moral life, and you
would never intentionally cause any injury, but
nevertheless, you now find yourself in the "belly
of the beast". Now What?

This is an ancient legal maxim: "A man who represents himself
in court, has a fool for a client!" But I've got one of my own:

"HIRING A LAWYER TO REPRESENT YOU IN COURT
IS A BIT LIKE DECLARING YOURSELF TO BE INSANE."

Here's why:

REPRESENTITIVE DEFINED

"Represent" means: "looks like", "acts like",
or "acts on the behalf/benefit of". Presumably you hire
a lawyer to act as you would, and on behalf of you, for
your benefit. This is *not* how it really is, as you know
if you have ever asked your lawyer to defend you on
Constitutional grounds. (he won't)

REPRESENTATION DIMINISHES "SUI JURIS" STATUS

Part of being free is having "Sui Juris" status:
a responsible adult with the ability to make friendly
contracts in public. Insane people are declared Non Compos
Mentis, thus Non-Sui Juris, prohibited from making friendly
contracts in public, prohibited from managing one's own
affairs. They become wards of the State. (I'm not saying
this is proper, just that it *is*.)

Now, when you ask a lawyer to "represent you", that is,
you assign someone your "power of attorney", you
are diminishing your own "Sui Juris" status, as
the lawyer (your agent) now can sign your name,
negotiate deals with the judge, engage in contracts,
etc., without your knowledge or further consent!

Your lawyer "acting on your behalf" has degenerated
into "Acting/Speaking for You". In court it is even worse:
"You are forbidden to speak/act for yourself". These days,
you MUST have an agent in court. You are forced / compelled
/ coerced to delegate part of your essential liberties
(your power to contract) to this fellow, licensed by the
same State that made the accusation against you! Yes,
and the same State that will grab a tidy sum of your money
when you are found guilty. Fair system, huh? ;^(

You have been tricked into becoming a ward. You have
been deceived into *thinking* you are no longer free.
You are required to hire your State Licensed "advocate"
(who is not even sworn to tell the truth in court) to do
all your talking for you. He is not your advocate. His only
interest is in getting paid, not offending the judge or the
monopolistic Bar Association, and thus, keeping his job,
and making his Mercedes payment.

(You should know that your ultimate responsibility is
non-delegatable. It is YOU that will go to jail upon
a guilty verdict, NOT the lawyer! And. he gets paid even
if you are found guilty)

DRIVERS: YOU MUST DECLARE YOURSELF INSANE, BY LAW!

Also interesting is "liability insurance", like
the kind required "by law" in the event that you
want to pilot an automobile without harassment.
Having insurance is like saying, "I am not responsible
for my future actions; my agent is". Let me say that
again. Having liability insurance is like saying,
"I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE...". Remember that Sui Juris status
is a *responsible* adult, free to make contracts at large,
in public.

Thus, hiring an attorney, or having insurance, is similar
to saying, "I am not responsible. I am not able to
manage my own affairs. My agent will act for me. My
agent will engage in contracts on my behalf. I am not
a free adult, but I am a ward".

DO YOU TRUST YOUR REPRESENTITIVE?

As a last sidebar, it can be now shown that in this
way, a *representative* democracy (a republic) is inferior
to true participatory democracy. Don't be tricked into
fearing "mob rule"; the Constitution asserts and protects
individual rights. (You might suspect someone critical of
Democracies as advocating substituting a different despot
for the one you've got now!)

Our republic was the only practical form of the ideal democratic
state that could have existed 100 years before automobiles and
200 years before the Internet ;^)

SUMMARY

Hiring an attorney is a personal decision, and now
that you understand the issues, you can make an
informed decision. Do so if you think it is in your
best interest. Frankly, this may be the path of least
resistance.

For real excitement, bring a legal expert along as your
"Counsel" who is not a state-licensed attorney. This is
your right. Be prepared for a charge of "having a bad
opinion about the court" (contempt).

You can also "appear before the court as your own proper
person". DO NOT say that you are REPRESENTING YOURSELF.
This is a trick like "have you stopped beating your wife".
(explained below).

You can also try this: hire an attorney as your counsel,
but DON'T give him general power of attorney (you could
outline exactly what the attorney is to do, or not do).
YOU do all the talking in court, YOU defend yourself as
you see fit, and require your agent to advise you only.

No matter what you choose to do, stay calm, do your homework,
be prepared.



Continue to:

* prev: 1.17: What is an Ex Post Factor Law?
* Index
* next: 2.2: What is an Attorney At Law? What is an Esquire?


Share and Enjoy
http://stason.org/TULARC/society/la...ire-an-attorney-to-represent-me-in-court.html

This applies to all of u no matter what state. If u let the courts take u on a ride they will take u there its in there own interests. Theres more u can look up on how to protect yourself and your family. I will add some links and stuff but really Im just learning and I must say I love it. I know for a fact something is wrong with government and have been the one behind the seat where everyone else understands whats going on but me...Then next thing u know your going to prison for something they could not prove, should not have been able to uphold, but because I was ignorant to my rights, was sent rolling with it. It happens faster then u think and when u know nothing, u can do nothing. Inform yourselves farmers.

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I know its YouTube yall, but look up the info...its legit.

 

[Seamaiden]

Seamaiden, why does your doctor recommend renewing your approval in a year? Is there a chance your condition is going to improve and you will no longer benefit from using Cannabis? How much does he charge you to see him and get a recommendation each year?

Initial fee was $200, with follow-ups @ $100. This year he's doing it for less.

As I recall (since I have an appointment next week I can ask him) reco's were designed to have an expiry, just like a drivers license, requiring reexamination of the patient by the recommending doctor. In fact, I don't know of anyone who doesn't have to renew annually. This particular doctor is extremely concerned with abuse, and along with legal issues this is where he spends the most of our appointment time, basically assessing my mental, emotional states and home status relative to my cannabis use. I find it to be a prudent and conscientious stance on his part.

I guess I assumed that one of the added benefits of not having to register with the state would be not having to pay a window dressing tax each year and that includes doctor's fees.

Main benefit for me is not being on yet another database, on another list. I used to really dig my anonymity, back when I thought I had some. Still, not putting the chains around my own ankles for them. I'm a little recalcitrant that way.

There's nowhere on my rec that states anything about plant limits. I also received a Grower's Certificate which is embossed with my license and Dr. sig.
Is this standard for everyone?
My rec is only good for one year at a time too.

Perhaps that's applicable if you're growing for others. I am not.

Just an FYI, having the doctor's recommendation sans ID card does not automatically mean you're going to be arrested. I can speak to this directly as well. Quite a lot is actually left up to officers'/jurisdiction discretion.

Why am I NOT surprised about San Berdoo? Whatever they do, they should NOT focus on the gangs or the tweakers, mkay? Focus on the potheads, they're easiest to catch and safest to cuff. <rolls eyes>