Does feminizing destroy the strain for breeding ?

[budfarmer]

Hello guys I want to produce feminized seeds from a couple strains so I can store the seeds and bring back these strains in the future for breeding purposes but does feminizing damage the genes so the strains are no good for breeding ?

 

[kolah]

what method will you use?

 

[zeke]

It's pretty much a philosophical debate at this point. I'm not aware of any publicly published data that indicates any damage to the progeny. Personally I don't run fem gear. It's my personal opinion that traditional selective breeding with male and female parentals is the way to go for establishing lines. We take great pains to avoid intersexed individuals from pollinating usually. Going so far as to eliminate any individuals exhibiting this traits.

 

[homebrew420]

No. In fact there has been a good deal of discussion as to the usefulness of feminizing. A few breders have talked of the speed in which one might stabilize traits in a few gens using fems then crossing to original males.
The idea being; find a keeper. Fem it. Find winners in progeny. Use winners to cross to male (s). Seed groupSHOULD be extremely similar in following generation.
Sounds solid to me.

 

[Blaze]

Yes. It eliminates all sex-linked genes on the male side, which in turn reduces the gene pool. It also greatly increases the chances of hermaphrodites in most cases. It is not a smart or viable long term strategy for breeding. It can be useful for preserving a certain clone but I would strongly recommend against breeding with feminized stock.

 

[TheCoolestMan]

There's a lot of people that breed out of feminized plant. Clones from s1's etc. As matter of fact it's a standard in the industry. All who breeds with OG for example. Since most OG's are s1's or 2 or 3,4,5 etc... Same with Chemdog. So I will say no, if u not a purist and if doesn't hurt ur ethic as a breeder, then it shouldn't be a problem. U have a lot of people who also s1 feminized seeds.

Chemdog D is a feminized seed at first, and people breed the hell out of it lol...

 

[zeke]

Breeding with fems is like breeding with a ginger. Sure you might luck out and not have any fire haired freckle faced soulless kids. But what if you do? That's just gross, ew. Just joking, I myself have a tinge of the ginge.
I think sex reversal and selfing is a great time savor for learning about a plants potential. That is as far as I'll go. Reverse a female and self pollinate it. Observe the progeny and screen for useful traits. Then discard. Back to normal breeding of dioecious individuals for selective pressuring. Same thing for males. Reverse them. Observe the floral chacteristics, trichome production and terpene profiles. Select your male from there. Only thing better is progeny testing and we all know how long that takes.
In short, sex reversal is a useful tool for genetic analysis. I just feel it shouldn't be used to produce parentals ever. I mean how would you feel if yer grandma was a chick with a dick? That ain't cool.

 

[homebrew420]

I think something else that deserves a little attention, the misconception of the term "bottlenecking"
I have grown many a seed. Never have I grown a lot that had been "so inbred" that it lacked in ways previous geration had. Just luck I guess.
The idea that one might in just a few, maybe 5 of less, generations destroy a variety is due to lack of understanding and poor selection.
Many love S1 seeds for the very purpose that they provide, hopefully near clone original status. Obviously still breeding material and will be. S1's are, simply put, a rearrangement of genetic material that is already there. No real way of degradation, save poor selection by us humans.
I am not saying bottlnecking doesn't exsist. Just so rare with our clandestine breeding labs and polyhybrid starting material that I believe it to be a non issue as the current market stands.
Femmed seed has a VERY important role until genomics takes us to the next level and leaves us all in the dust, well not really.

Peace

 

[BestAround]

iuno I am doing EVERYTHING at the moment. regular seeds and fem crosses and S1s .. I am finding great results in all three.. just gotta be smart and grow out the plants your going to use for making seeds atleast 5 times.. so u see the TRUE PHENOS .. I have had plants look like shit from seed.. and then from the clone.. looked like totally different buds. so I grow them out ALOT before making seeds.. looking for hermis and other things I don't like.. but right now .I am using CS for FeMS . wont be posting any pictures for a lil. gota stay safe security wise

 

[tipz]

I've never chemically induced, and do not recommed
remixing the genetic structure, then hoping to achieve a natural
result, sounds quite counterproductive, not to mention the
possible damage to the genepool. I suppose there is a place
for every process, im just to old to change

 

[tipz]

Cmon now brew.......isn't misunderstanding and bad selection pervasive in today's seed market. And what does that do to our beloved plant?

 

[tipz]

There's a lot of people that breed out of feminized plant. Clones from s1's etc. As matter of fact it's a standard in the industry. All who breeds with OG for example. Since most OG's are s1's or 2 or 3,4,5 etc... Same with Chemdog. So I will say no, if u not a purist and if doesn't hurt ur ethic as a breeder, then it shouldn't be a problem. U have a lot of people who also s1 feminized seeds.

Chemdog D is a feminized seed at first, and people breed the hell out of it lol...

Its very sad, that in such a short time the evolution of
Prevailing thought on breeding has come to this. Tipz

 

[ChalkyWhite]

Breeding with fems is like breeding with a ginger. Sure you might luck out and not have any fire haired freckle faced soulless kids. But what if you do? That's just gross, ew. Just joking, I myself have a tinge of the ginge.
I think sex reversal and selfing is a great time savor for learning about a plants potential. That is as far as I'll go. Reverse a female and self pollinate it. Observe the progeny and screen for useful traits. Then discard. Back to normal breeding of dioecious individuals for selective pressuring. Same thing for males. Reverse them. Observe the floral chacteristics, trichome production and terpene profiles. Select your male from there. Only thing better is progeny testing and we all know how long that takes.
In short, sex reversal is a useful tool for genetic analysis. I just feel it shouldn't be used to produce parentals ever. I mean how would you feel if yer grandma was a chick with a dick? That ain't cool.

:D

 

[Resingrower]

Great input here gentlemen the thread is extremely intelligent and there isn't a more valid, pertinent breeding topic. The danger I see in releasing selfies is that eventually they will come full circle and sneak back into an already weakened gene pool . In itself it's a true viable shortcut to producing a single crop. It is a natural tool like hermaphrodism to promote species survival that many landraces have had to utilize and no doubt exists in the historical lineage (if only we could actually see it) in probably all strains . But in the process of traditional dioescious seed breeding it can never have a role beyond being a breeders tool , a probe to gather data. I also "run no Fem gear" but have grown out plenty to see the merits in the short term.. Can anyone show me a valid link proving that all the Chemdog D cuts used in so many crosses all derive from selfed genetics? I saw that comment above. And the question posed was does selfing damage the genes themselves . ANSWER: NO! Genes are just reshuffled , but it does alter and manipulate gene expression. This is what damages the overall gene pool . Weakens , dilutes, causes the effects of THC based pot monoculture to be inherited and proliferate easier.

 

[tipz]

By

There is a slight flaw in the argument that breeding with fems or hermeries corrupts the grene pool or some how degrades it.

Cannabis in the wild, produces hermies, and sence all cannabis has at one point or time come from the wild. They all have that charactoristic. Do they not?

So how is it comprising the gene pool? It's already there, it's been there, always has, and always will.

If anything removing any gentics, that produce this phenotype, will be destroying the gene pool, or rather only breeding with plants from a dioescious stand point some what limets your choices in parents.

What strains would be availeble, if all fems, and any plants that showed and or breed herm traits were destroyed.

I wouldn't have a fucking plant in my garden. Everything I have ever grown if you look close enough, throws a nanner late in flower.

All
Sours
Chems
Og's
Purples
Aliens
Skunks

So basically saying trash the hermies is like fuck everything every one hear grows. There not full blown reck your garden. But I guentee anything taken past day 65 is gonna throw a nanner. Maybe only 1 nanner but it's there, and that means it's a hermie.

I read some were that only 1 out of 10,000 plants is a full blown female that will not produce a single nanner under a sercomstance. Chemical or what ever. It's in one of the grow bibles. They did a test or some shit. I think it was sensi maybe.

So yea.

IMO![

Sorry, from a purely genetic standpoint , these conclusions are
problematic, and not the consensus for most involved in cannabis genetics. Sorry boom,respect your growing... these conclusions are based on faulty premises. Tipz

 

[tipz]

In not sure i understand your question.
Heritability of any genetic expression is not a constant value.
An increase in genetic variability that is due to the presence
of an inferior segregate is of no value for selection of improved
cultivars. Tipz

 

[motz]

The plant throws nanners at the end to try to reproduce itself. These are nanners that are pretty much inside the bud,pretty much locks the pollen in.We are not talking full blown balls. It does not constitute that plant as a full blown hermie. The plant has realized it has come to the end of its cycle. Plants and women all have that biological clock a tickin.iIf you start seeing full blown pollen sacs then you have a situation. That is a hermie

 

[GP73LPC]

Interesting thread...

 

[tipz]

Im sorry but your conclusions are not based on proven genetic research, anymore so than the term semi- hermie appearing in any genetic glossary.

 

[tipz]

May i, respectfully suggest