Does SILICA really cut up Spider Mites stomachs?

Mississip Hip · Oct 6, 2012

One of my foliar recipe's: tsp/g Silica , kelp and humic per the package...the more organic the better.

So I got this from an old cat I know years ago for babies. But as I was chatting with a dude at the hydro store , he told me that Silica will also cut up (like razors?, he says) the spider mites guts.

Anybody know if Silica will damage a mites guts?

Seamaiden · Oct 6, 2012

Wouldn't they have to ingest it for it to cut their guts?

I've read two different things with regard to how diatomaceous earth (another high-level of Si product) actually works on pests.
1) It cuts up their little soft bits, in between the hard plates of their exoskeletons (mites are soft-bodied insects, aren't they? Like aphids?)
2) It desiccates them.

Now, let me add something else to this discussion, and I think that it's why this guy says that. Silica sand is known for being a sharp sand, in other words the grains are pointed and sharp, not rounded like, say, coral-based sands. You cannot house sharks, especially young benthic sharks, using silica-based sands because they will abrade the young shark's skin so much that it can become infected, killing the animal.

However, molecular/liquid/Si in solution doesn't seem to necessarily present those options upon first perusal.

Mississip Hip · Oct 6, 2012

Yeah......eatin it off the leaf after I spray. They eat the plant to stay alive, thats why they like hanging out.

The DE gets in the cracks of the exoskeleton. I topdress with DE if I see any gnats. They dont have to eat it.

Source: Billy the Exterminator. ...lol....not really , but really. On his show he uses a TON of DE for organic pest control. My daduses DE in his swimming pool for something....I dunno what....

The method of ingestion I am speaking of is the mite eating a little silica and it doin the same thing to its guts that it does to the sharks skin

I guess to know that I would need to know particulate size of the Silica and how big the hole in a mites mouth is, huh?

I thought somebody else might know someting about it....hopefully so! That would be a cool tool against the bastids.

But I dont really have a clue.....so the question comes to the forum!!....lol....

Mississip Hip · Oct 6, 2012

Just reaad your last sentence....I am trying to get out of the door and missed it.

Thats the deal...is the liquid we use of the same nature for 'crystalline' particulates to be suspended under a microscope as sand or the silica you speak of?

Or a totally different "silica animal" completely. Pure liquid? I dunno how many forms silica can take...liquid, solid, gas??.....

I's aint dat smart..:confused:

Your shark line of logic is where he was coming from I betcha.

squiggly · Oct 6, 2012

If it's Silica dust, yes it can do this (if it should so happen to eat it)--but its more likely that it would do what DE does and get into their joints, cutting them up.

As a chemist I often work with silica--it is commonly used as a stationary phase for column chromatography. When we use this stuff we wear masks, gloves, and eye protection--because it is extremely irritating. Structurally it's really similar to DE, except if memory serves--the particle size is a bit smaller.

Once you get this stuff on you, it is near IMPOSSIBLE to get it off. It gets into your pores and such--really terrible feeling.

Mississip Hip · Oct 7, 2012

squiggly.....I am speaking of Silica like ProTekt or Silica Blast.

Is this possible for a bug to eat this Silica and cut up their guts?.....what that stuff look like on a microscopic level?

Smoking Gun · Oct 7, 2012

Hip, NO. It was said twice, liquid silica will not do what you are asking. Use a silica dust like diatomaceous earth.

Your dad uses it as a filter in your pool, but do not use that type of DE. Use horticultural grade DE.

Mississip Hip · Oct 7, 2012

I dont see where it was said twice.

Thanks though.

I know what kinda DE to use...been using it for years.

Are there silica particulates in liquid Silica?

Actually, Squiggly said they are the same but with different particulate sizes. correct?

Do you know what he is talking about?

Seamaiden · Oct 7, 2012

I picked up the same thing from Squiggly as you did, I think, Mississip.

I'm wondering also if the Si is causing the plant's cell walls to become super-tough, thus making it much more difficult for mites to pierce into it. <shrug> I'm totally guessing now.

squiggly · Oct 7, 2012

Mississip Hip said:
I dont see where it was said twice.

Thanks though.

I know what kinda DE to use...been using it for years.

Are there silica particulates in liquid Silica?

Actually, Squiggly said they are the same but with different particulate sizes. correct?

Do you know what he is talking about?

The silica in Pro-Tekt (which I also use) is IN SOLUTION. This means no particulates (if there were it would be called a suspension or a colloid).

Seamaiden said:
I picked up the same thing from Squiggly as you did, I think, Mississip.

I'm wondering also if the Si is causing the plant's cell walls to become super-tough, thus making it much more difficult for mites to pierce into it. <shrug> I'm totally guessing now.

You are guessing right. This is exactly what silica helps to grow--strong structural components--especially cell walls.

outwest · Oct 7, 2012

I think the DTE and silica that you find in liquids are different. As I understand it the DTE is sharp to very small bugs when they crawl across it, cuts them up, also dehydrates them. Don't think they have to eat it. I was told growstones can have the same razor effect.

outwest

Mississip Hip · Oct 11, 2012

squiggly said:
As a chemist I often work with silica--it is commonly used as a stationary phase for column chromatography. When we use this stuff we wear masks, gloves, and eye protection--because it is extremely irritating. Structurally it's really similar to DE, except if memory serves--the particle size is a bit smaller.

Once you get this stuff on you, it is near IMPOSSIBLE to get it off. It gets into your pores and such--really terrible feeling.

What the difference between the silica you are referring to and the silica we use for our plants?

Is it in a form the plant could use?

squiggly · Oct 11, 2012

Mississip Hip said:
What the difference between the silica you are referring to and the silica we use for our plants?

Is it in a form the plant could use?

The difference is a chemical one.

The silica which is soluble is likely Silicon Hydroxide (although there are other forms, don't feel like looking up what pro-tekt uses).

The silica which does the cutting is SO2 (silicon dioxide)--and it is colloquially known to us as sand. The silica gel (SO2) which is used in column chromatography (and is an irritant) differs from sand according to its particle size (the particles are much smaller).

SO2 is almost totally insoluble in water, as beaches prove to us every day. This depends on the crystal structure of the SO2, but in general it is not soluble and cannot be used by plants.

outwest · Oct 11, 2012

I think diatomaceous earth is what cuts bugs stomach (and is used as insecticide). It's mostly silica.

From this web site: http://www.domyownpestcontrol.com/food-grade-diatomaceous-earth-p-2692.html

"Diatomaceous Earth works by penetrating the exoskeleton of insects and dehydrating them"

outwest

squiggly · Oct 12, 2012

outwest said:
I think the form of silica that cuts bugs stomach (and is used as insecticide). It's mostly silica.

From this web site: http://www.domyownpestcontrol.com/food-grade-diatomaceous-earth-p-2692.html

"Diatomaceous Earth works by penetrating the exoskeleton of insects and dehydrating them"

outwest

And there you have it, they are essentially the same thing.

I didn't realize DE was made up of 85% SiO2--but there ya go.

leadsled · Oct 12, 2012

Outwest you are a genius..... :D

HashZeppelin · Oct 19, 2012

Can i soak silica rocks in water and shake them up in the bottle and then spray, or is that the same thing as silica liquid?

outwest · Oct 19, 2012

HashZeppelin said:
Can i soak silica rocks in water and shake them up in the bottle and then spray, or is that the same thing as silica liquid?

I don't think it works that way with rocks.

outwest

NorthernMich · Jan 12, 2019

I use Silica 1 ml per gallon every feed, and foliar spay Mites will slowed down and be under control for about 2 years then like the pests they are got tougher jaws and came back with a vengeance . My fault so now I'm killin them all N I have killed them all with Silica and green clean Until the summer winds blow them back in. But yes silica does help.

SmithsJunk · Jan 13, 2019

NorthernMich said:
I use Silica 1 ml per gallon every feed, and foliar spay Mites will slowed down and be under control for about 2 years then like the pests they are got tougher jaws and came back with a vengeance . My fault so now I'm killin them all N I have killed them all with Silica and green clean Until the summer winds blow them back in. But yes silica does help.

Spider Mites don't have jaws, they have piercing/sucking mouthparts. Just an FYI.

Does SILICA really cut up Spider Mites stomachs?

Does SILICA really cut up Spider Mites stomachs?

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Does SILICA really cut up Spider Mites stomachs?

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