Does the first clone to root make a better Mom?

QuindariousGooch · Mar 13, 2020

I am looking to do a little research on an idea shared with me from a very solid grower.

Idea/theory...
By choosing the clones that roots first for a mom you will get better, faster rooting cloning material vs the slower rooting clone.

Has anyone seen this play out? We are getting some tray-in-tray clone trays to see if it is true and track fast-rooting clone quality moms vs a slower rooting clone as a mom. It will take 6 months to play out so if anyone knows about this (true or BS) it would be great to hear what you've seen.

Cheers,
Quindarious Gooch

HeLLfiReZ · Mar 13, 2020

My opinion on it is, no matter the cutting the genetics are identical, hence the term clone.

QuindariousGooch · Mar 13, 2020

That's what I always thought but apparently faster rooting clones are so for a reason and it is passed on... that's what I was told they are seeing but take that with a chunk of salt... I have not looked into it yet. Thanks for the feedback... If I find something I'll share for sure.
Cheers,
Q

MIMedGrower · Mar 13, 2020

I think too many variables. Even mostly identical clones taken from the same place low on the plant can end up growing different.

QuindariousGooch · Mar 13, 2020

MIMedGrower said:
I think too many variables. Even mostly identical clones taken from the same place low on the plant can end up growing different.

If that's the case the theory may still work because that might be where the plant concentrates whatever it is that causes that theory to work. Thanks for bringing up the point I will look for that in any research I find. I appreciate the input. Cheers, Q

MIMedGrower · Mar 13, 2020

QuindariousGooch said:
If that's the case the theory may still work because that might be where the plant concentrates whatever it is that causes that theory to work. Thanks for bringing up the point I will look for that in any research I find. I appreciate the input. Cheers, Q

I have read many times that lower branches will root faster than upper. But they dont root exactly the same so there are possible differences in growth.

QuindariousGooch · Mar 13, 2020

MIMedGrower said:
I have read many times that lower branches will root faster than upper. But they dont root exactly the same so there are possible differences in growth.

And then try cutting it off of an old mom and you'll have a whole tray of clones do terrible where a fresher mom gives you beautiful product. Lots of factors

MIMedGrower · Mar 13, 2020

QuindariousGooch said:
And then try cutting it off of an old mom and you'll have a whole tray of clones do terrible where a fresher mom gives you beautiful product. Lots of factors

I have no space for mothers so i run clones of clones of i keep something. But the fresh clones off the vigorous growing veg plants always seem to root easily. I always wondered how much more trouble an old plant would be.

But i have rooted 9 and 11 week flowering cuts so i am guessing plants health has a lot to do with it.

HeLLfiReZ · Mar 13, 2020

QuindariousGooch said:
And then try cutting it off of an old mom and you'll have a whole tray of clones do terrible where a fresher mom gives you beautiful product. Lots of factors

I always found older moms have often woody stems. After a couple years alive the stems look like bark.

Growing_Garbage · Mar 13, 2020

Look into proper feeding for mothers too. They will root faster/slower depending on nutrients available. Not doing the research again right now but I think lower phosphorus levels and they'll set roots faster. Different parts of the plant top to bottom will root differently too. Mostly its just healthy plants work better is what your friend was getting at. If you choose clones that take forever then they will take forever to get into a healthy state for cloning again.

Tons of factors, but I choose the fast rooters just because they were faster, so faster to a real plant. Once the plants growing its really all the same still I think.

QuindariousGooch · Mar 13, 2020

MIMedGrower said:
I have no space for mothers so i run clones of clones of i keep something. But the fresh clones off the vigorous growing veg plants always seem to root easily. I always wondered how much more trouble an old plant would be.

But i have rooted 9 and 11 week flowering cuts so i am guessing plants health has a lot to do with it.

yeah we're on a two-week schedule so no way to do clones of clones here but I get it that's a nice way to do things

Terpz719 · Mar 13, 2020

FWIW, I've had the slower rooting clone of two end up more vigorous. In another test, the clone transplanted without great white had much faster development. Very, very small sample sizes, so... The plant always wins.

Formallyhap · Mar 13, 2020

I had like 15 moms when I was running to sell shit. I have sold 1000s of clones.
I have never seen this. I was running to pull clones only, I didn't have a flower room, I have never heard this either.

I would replace a mom if I needed to with clones that didn't sell, so the shittiest ones and I never noticed the new moms being different at all.

QuindariousGooch · Mar 13, 2020

Formallyhap said:
I had like 15 moms when I was running to sell shit. I have sold 1000s of clones.
I have never seen this. I was running to pull clones only, I didn't have a flower room, I have never heard this either.

I would replace a mom if I needed to with clones that didn't sell, so the shittiest ones and I never noticed the new moms being different at all.

I feel the same way but I have never really kept track to know. The nice thing is it costs nothing but effort to find out.
Cheers
Q

dire wolf · Mar 13, 2020

Hey Q , i have the answer to your question , i think , only have to wait to grow out the plant to make sure it wasnt actually misslabeled , i kept one plant and many cuts off her , one of the clones in particular grew out twice as vigorous , so i gave it a number , number 5 , even though im sure its from the same plant as all my clones , but ive kept it for many many years , and havent grown it out .....
So either i fucked up and have different plants or #5 is just doing exactly what you are describing , so this year im going to grow it out side by side .....
If they are all the same , then yea , this cut always rooted faster grew out better and is healthier than the rest , been bugging me for years.......

QuindariousGooch · Mar 14, 2020

Very cool... I have not personally seem this yet but the whole thing is intriguing in a plant physiology kind of way. The whole ideas is new to me but might explain some of the inconsistency. We all seem to accept that the clones route at different rates perhaps from spots on the plant or whatever but we just accept it. Might be a little something something right under our nose here. Thanks for the feedback and input. We're running about three thousand clones a month minimum so I've got a nice little laboratory to find out. I'll let you know in this thread.
Cheers
Quindarious

QuindariousGooch · Mar 14, 2020

Terpz719 said:
FWIW, I've had the slower rooting clone of two end up more vigorous. In another test, the clone transplanted without great white had much faster development. Very, very small sample sizes, so... The plant always wins.

Agreed but it seems some nerds have gotten involved and now here I am wondering about it. If I was growing 1-100 plants at a time I would not be so interested but I am going to get some decent data and compare cut clones to tissue culture clones. I think tissue culture may get around the whole consistency issue but so far all I have seen is talk or anecdotal claim on both sides of the issue. I have seen a crappy looking clone recover and do great as well...
Without things like this what would we do? It is true...The plant always wins.

QuindariousGooch · Mar 14, 2020

dire wolf said:
Hey Q , i have the answer to your question , i think , only have to wait to grow out the plant to make sure it wasnt actually misslabeled , i kept one plant and many cuts off her , one of the clones in particular grew out twice as vigorous , so i gave it a number , number 5 , even though im sure its from the same plant as all my clones , but ive kept it for many many years , and havent grown it out .....
So either i fucked up and have different plants or #5 is just doing exactly what you are describing , so this year im going to grow it out side by side .....
If they are all the same , then yea , this cut always rooted faster grew out better and is healthier than the rest , been bugging me for years.......

It's a ways off for results but if you remember I'd love to hear what happens. It seems experiences are all over the board with this subject. Thanks for the input SIr Wolf.

QuindariousGooch · Mar 14, 2020

Growing_Garbage said:
Look into proper feeding for mothers too. They will root faster/slower depending on nutrients available. Not doing the research again right now but I think lower phosphorus levels and they'll set roots faster. Different parts of the plant top to bottom will root differently too. Mostly its just healthy plants work better is what your friend was getting at. If you choose clones that take forever then they will take forever to get into a healthy state for cloning again.

Tons of factors, but I choose the fast rooters just because they were faster, so faster to a real plant. Once the plants growing its really all the same still I think.

We have tested the weak mom theory and feel that it is a critical factor if the mom is "bad". We cull at 6-8 months now and resolved the issues we were seeing in the clones. We cut hard on moms and your point about properly feeding the moms is great. I will make sure that was controlled in any studies or experiments I see. Is it physiology or environment?.... Kinda like the plot of Trading Places but with plants.
Cheers,
Q

QuindariousGooch · Mar 14, 2020

HeLLfiReZ said:
I always found older moms have often woody stems. After a couple years alive the stems look like bark.

I have gotten those to root by scraping or shallow cuts with a quick dip into clonex. The success rate was lower and I don't remember if it grew any better. Certainly nothing overtly noticeable. I have never had a mom for 2 years either but I've had some bark up.
Cheers,
Quindarious

Does the first clone to root make a better Mom?

Does the first clone to root make a better Mom?

QuindariousGooch

HeLLfiReZ

QuindariousGooch

MIMedGrower

QuindariousGooch

MIMedGrower

QuindariousGooch

MIMedGrower

HeLLfiReZ

Growing_Garbage

QuindariousGooch

Terpz719

Formallyhap

QuindariousGooch

dire wolf

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QuindariousGooch

QuindariousGooch

QuindariousGooch

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