Doubleds Veg System - Reincarnated

[canaguy27]

Hello Farmers

I was at the smith's this morning and snapped some shots of how they veg there cuttings for there mpb's.

1 x 4x6 ebb n flow table w 2 x 1000 watt horti's.
12 x 12 litre buckets with 6 holes drilled in the bottom.
12 x 10 inch baskets
24 drippers
1/2 inch hose
2 x 750 gph pumps / 1 for drip / 1 for chiller
1 x 1/4 hp chiller
1 x 30 gallon resevoir

simple simple

We made a 2x4 frame that sits on top of 6 20 litre buckets. The ebb n flow table sits on the frame, the buckets sit on the table and the baskets sit on top of the pails. Fill the baskets with hydroton, add your cuts and then add 2 drippers per plant/pail. Nutes flow through the 1/2 inch line, through the drippers, through the hydroton and out the bottom of the pails where it runs down the table through the drain back to the res.
Chiller keeps the nutes at 65. Plant your cuts 3 weeks b4 your flowering room finishes and you'll be ready same day you harvest to replant and no veg time in the mpb's needed. All you have to do is remove the drippers, pick up the bucket,walk to your flower room, take the basket out of the pail and place it in the mpb !!!!!!!

There was only one way, until now to get 6 harvests per year. That is sog. You know have a way to get the largest yields possible and still get 6 harvests.

Hope you enjoy this thread !!

 

[true grit]

Nice, can't wait to see some more pics....I'll some stand alone buckets soon, but still need a solid veg set-up pre-transfer...

 

[Apache69]

Right on! This is what I have been looking for. Thanks in advance for the teachings

 

[canaguy27]

These are not my teachings; they are DDs.

 

[TyKaycha]

Nice! Thank you!

 

[mango420]

Thats some good info there..if im not mistaken tho doesnt dds veg with 6in rockwool cubes on a ebb and flow table? Or is that how he used to veg?

 

[Lost]

Thats some good info there..if im not mistaken tho doesnt dds veg with 6in rockwool cubes on a ebb and flow table? Or is that how he used to veg?

I think that is how he used to do it but I actually think there is a better way. ( I could be wrong tho )

Theway I do it is to propagate in 1 inch rockwool of jiffy pelets, whatever.. Then str8 into a 5 gallon DWC with a 10 inch netpot. The same netpot you use for the mpb's. That way you have one transplant instred of 2 and Im pretty sure this is faster because the roots only need to re-colonize once not twice with the 6 inch cube ( 1inch cube goes into 6 inch then a week for roots, then into a bucket and another week for roots) VS 1 cube into 10 inch netpot and st8 veggin after that :)

Hope that made sense. :)

 

[Papa]

Hope that made sense. :)

when you put the jiffy into the 10" basket in the 5 gal, how do you feed? do you bring your water level up high and/or top feed?

Papa

 

[Lost]

High water level, no top feed. Even my MPB's do not use topfeed :) ( I do not know if that will change in the future, but for now, i cannot find the value of it once the roots hit the water :)

Edit: When small I can see this helping alot.

 

[OregonMeds]

I think that is how he used to do it but I actually think there is a better way. ( I could be wrong tho )

Theway I do it is to propagate in 1 inch rockwool of jiffy pelets, whatever.. Then str8 into a 5 gallon DWC with a 10 inch netpot. The same netpot you use for the mpb's. That way you have one transplant instred of 2 and Im pretty sure this is faster because the roots only need to re-colonize once not twice with the 6 inch cube ( 1inch cube goes into 6 inch then a week for roots, then into a bucket and another week for roots) VS 1 cube into 10 inch netpot and st8 veggin after that :)

Hope that made sense. :)

Yes dd used rockwool at least at some point.

I'm thinking about just continuing to veg the same as I have been, dwc cloner with no media then ebb and flow in the netpots. I already have that set up and dd only vegged half the flower time anyway.

Does anyone think that's going to cause a few days of shock or something? I've never had a problem before with any of my transplants and swaps, but I don't run really finicky plants and usually do give them an easy day after the switch.

Sound good? I can't afford a second chiller for veg anyway so have to do some alternative. I'm mainly concerned with root problems from the switch, like will that cause roping or poor quality root formation?

 

[Lost]

MED - If it is going to cause shock is dependant on how good you are. I can put a clone into the final bucket and it never has to stop foilier growth after it is put into the bucket. When you transplant into the rockwool, vert growth stops while roots colonize. Many people agree that the less stress you induce, the better the plant. My school of thought is to get the stress over young and get into its ultimate home asap. Transplanting causes some stress and does stop or slow growth, untill the roots have colonized.

What I used to do was go from plugs to vegging in 6 inch cubes for 6 weeks. I can get the same growth in 3-4 weeks with a single transplant. By then if I veg for 6 weeks I end up with a tree instead of a smaller teen. :)

 

[bakershredhead]

You should be ok with the e and f for vegging as long as they have plenty of roots when you put them in the mini res's and the water level is hitting the bottom of the net pots. If not then I would top feed just to not shock them. I believe that staying with the same feeding water method is the best way to go for the plants.

 

[Lost]

You should be ok with the e and f for vegging as long as they have plenty of roots when you put them in the mini res's and the water level is hitting the bottom of the net pots. If not then I would top feed just to not shock them. I believe that staying with the same feeding water method is the best way to go for the plants.

I did not use top feed with my 6 inch cubes, so that right there might account for the difference. :)

 

[canaguy27]

The 1st post WAS COPIED FROM DDs old thread on veg before it got deleted fyi.

 

[Galt]

I don't understand the reason for using the 12 litre buckets on the E & F table. Wouldn't it be simpler to just use your 10" net pots on the table and either top feed via dreepers or flood the pots via E & F?
It would also negate removing the 10" net pot from the 12 litre bucket, potentially damaging roots.

Which leads me to the next question: do y'all use the rimmed 10" net pots with mesh on the sides and bottoms? Alternatively, do you use 10 litre pails /w holes drilled in the bottom as per DD? Or, do you use the 10" net pots with mesh only on the bottom of the pot? I like the idea of the rimmed pots as they would sit on your lid more securely, I'd imagine.

When using the 10" net pot with mesh on on the sides & bottom, do you find placing the pot into your 60 ltr tote damages roots at all?

 

[mango420]

Well maybe dds could chime in here and clear this up. I do know that on more than a few occasions dds has said he vegs in 4 or 6 in cubes on a ebb and flow table.. heres a quote exactly as dds said it on his mpb diy thread.. "Rockwool cubes allow me to get a cutting to 12 - 18 inches tall and 12 inches wide b4 they get to the buckets. This allows a very short veg time in the buckets which means i get 5 tree grows per year. That 12 - 18 inch plant turns into a 28 inch tall x 24 inch wide plant in 7 veg days. The root mass built on the tables cant be beaten in such a short time. dds" I dont know which is the better way of vegging so im hoping dds can clear this up.

 

[easypleasie]

I'll chime in and try to help out while DDS is busy.

I had many of these same questions when I first looked into the mpb system and hydro in general...my lack of growing experience made me question everything. After doing a little more reading and a lot more growing, things are much clearer. What I discovered is there are many ways to veg just as there are many ways to flower. Which way is best is debatable and depends on your space, environment, funds, etc.

If you have a small setup, the 12 liter buckets with the 10" netpots have proven to work really well...as seen in the 42# grow at the Smith's place. If you're growing a lot of plants, that veg system isn't the most practical/economical. If you were to veg 50+ girls in 12 liter buckets, it would take up a lot of space and could be a lot more work. Of course, if you had the space and wanted to take that route, then you could. Last I read, DDS still uses the ebb n flow table for HIS grows. If you got a chance to read the old deleted posts, they were from grows setup by dds and grown by other people.

Galt, using the netpots in the 12 liter pails allows the roots to grow through the netpot and stay in the pail/bucket, allowing you to get a bigger root mass before going into the mpbs. This allows you to flower immediately once put into the mpbs. Cubes on the e&f table requires you to veg a little in the mpbs before flowering. Roots need to grow down into the mini-res...with the pails, they are already there! If you use just the netpots on the table, the roots will get air trimmed defeating the purpose. Also, very low risk of damaging roots as you just pick up the pail, take it to where the mpb is - pull the netpot out and place in the mpb. I'd think an 8 year old could handle that lol

I personall think the use of the different kinds of netpots/buckets may be personal choice just like so many things. Netpots with holes on the side will eliminate the chance of a blockage in the netpot but may increase the chance of getting a clog in the drain lines (due to roots coming out the side). Using buckets requires you to drill holes in the bucket...or you can just buy a nice strong netpot :)

Things change and DDS' system will evolve and get better just like anything else.

 

[easypleasie]

I'm anxious to hear how your run with the perlite goes. I wonder if it leaves residue like hydroton? Anything can be improved and without trying, you'll never know!

 

[Jalisco Kid]

I tried perlite and got less.If you clean it a lot it will leave less dust. It would seem on an ebb n flow table your roots would get tangled. You can fit 32 5 gal bucket on a 4 x 8 table not taking up so much space. Most here would only need a 4 x 4 table. JK

 

[Galt]

Galt, using the netpots in the 12 liter pails allows the roots to grow through the netpot and stay in the pail/bucket, allowing you to get a bigger root mass before going into the mpbs. This allows you to flower immediately once put into the mpbs. Cubes on the e&f table requires you to veg a little in the mpbs before flowering. Roots need to grow down into the mini-res...with the pails, they are already there! If you use just the netpots on the table, the roots will get air trimmed defeating the purpose. Also, very low risk of damaging roots as you just pick up the pail, take it to where the mpb is - pull the netpot out and place in the mpb. I'd think an 8 year old could handle that lol

Cheers Easy. I neglected to think of the air pruning effect a net pot has on an E & F table. :thinking

As you stated, there's lots of ways to veg with this system and MPBS in general is being constantly tweaked and refined.

Just wanted to make sure I was minimising transplant stress as much as possible thus allowing the plants to reach their full potential. As IMO these small nuances always tend to have an effect on final product weight.

Lemme tell ya, it's been extremely hard to source some of the required equipment to grow MPBS style here in Australia. ;(

I won't have change from 30 grand by the time I'm done.

Good times! :icon_spin: