Dry Bagged Nutes for $20 per run OR Bottled Wet Nutes for $1,000 per run NEED INPUT :)

[konakings]

Aloha to All,

Just wanted to say big thanks out to THC Farmer for all its help and information. I personally think this is the best forum out there and the community that it fosters is second to none on the web. With all that being said....here is my question. Are "dry" nutrients (bagged ones you buy in bulk from a commercial greenhouse or laboratory supply place) comparable to "wet" bottled Nutrients from AN, H&G, GH? Essentially, am I just paying for water when I buy bottled nutrients?

Here is a little background to shade your decision.

So, Im a math nerd. I like to calculate out on spreadsheets exactly what it costs me to run each nutrient per dose. Ive done (calculated and ran) the entire GH lineup, the entire Humboldts county Own lineup, and the entire H&G lineup. My latest lineup is H&G supplemented with HCO gravity, snowstorm, some Protekt silica, and some Mad Farmer Fulvic Acid NUTS. I have gotten great results with this, 1.5-2 elbows per light, and top quality meds. I have no complaints, except when it comes to the price of what Im getting charged for nutrients....Right now my current lineup costs me about $1,000 per run.


Armed with this info I have been looking into using dry nutrients. I have seen a couple threads on THC farmer and have read many of them but I still wanted to post and ask for individual guidance (in the hopes that others will find this thread and learn.)


I found an online company from CO that will send me dry bag of nutrients they even mix their own formula. I have purposely left the name of the supplier out so that this isnt an ad. If anyone cares to know I will post it later or just pm me.

Here is there analysis and prices:

CHEM-GRO TOMATO FORMULA 4-18-38
GUARANTEED ANALYSIS
Total Nitrogen (N) ............................................................4.00%
Nitrate Nitrogen.................................................................3.50%
Ammoniacal Nitrogen.........................................................0.50%
Available Phosphoric Acid (P205)....................................18.00%
Soluble Potash (K20)...................................................... 38.00%
Total Magnesium as (Mg)...................................................0.40%
Water Soluble Magnesium as (Mg).....................................0.40%
TRACE ELEMENTS
Boron as (B) ......................................................................0.20%
Copper as (Cu).................................................................. 0.05%
Iron (Chelated) as (Fe).. .....................................................0.40%
Total Manganese as (Mn)....................................................0.20%
Soluble Manganese as (Mn) ...............................................0.20%
Molybdenum as (Mo) .........................................................0.01%
Zinc as (Zn).........................................................................0.05%
Chlorine as (Cl), not more than........................................... 2.00%
Small changes in the quantities of TRACE ELEMENTS of any CHEM-GRO formula can be made with little or no additional
cost.
Derived From: Potassium Nitrate, Potassium Phosphate, Muriate of Potash Ammonium Phosphate, Potassium Sulfate,
Magnesium Sulfate, Sodium Borate, Copper Sulfate,
Iron DTPA, Molybdic Acid,
Manganese Sulfate, & Zinc Sulfate.
25 - 75lbs..........................$1.960/lb
100 -175lbs.........................1.782/lb
200-475lbs..........................1.719/lb
500-975lbs..........................1.633/lb
1000-1950lbs.....................$1.607/lb
2000-4975lbs.......................1.581/lb
5000-9975lbs.......................1.531/lb


Here is the Calcium Nitrate:


Calcium Nitrate
Click Here for Smaller
CaNo3
(15.5-0-0)
50# / 47#
$33.95

$46.95

and the Magnesium Sulfate:


Magnesium Sulfate
Click Here for Smaller Sizes
MgSO4
(9.8% Mg)
50# / 47#
$35.95

$45.95
and you cant forget the Potassium Silicate:


Potassium Silicate
KSiO2
(26.5% SiO2)
12#/Gal.
1 Gal $18.95

55 Gal. $715.95



So, will the above formula work? Will it be comparable to my $1,000 lineup. Also would you supplement with anything else? Am I leaving anything out of the equation?


This lineup will cost me $20 per entire run. $20 vs $1000! Am I just dreaming? Or have I been getting reamed by the nute companies for so long that I feel like I have to buy their pricey jugs of water?

Anyone with experience in switching between bottled nutes and dry nutes in an ebb and flow hydroponic situation would be amazing. I know this is asking a lot because the nature of the question is so specific, but anyone with "credible" information I would love to hear from.

I grow in coco, ebb and flow hydroponic. Perfect climate conditions, no pest problems.

Thank in advance for your responses. THC farmer has never let me down before and I know someone on here knows the info that I seek. Come join the fun, cast your poll vote. and maybe we can all figure out a way to save some of our hard grown money.

Cheers,
Kings of Kona

P.S. No matter what Im going to place an order and try it out on one of my tables. Would like to make sure Im giving them a complete lineup though.

 

[konakings]

So, I just realized I posted this in Advanced techniques when I guess it should really be posted in Nutrients / Fertilizers. Can a mod make that happen for me?

 

[Canvas]

Firstly, you know you gotta try it!

I have had good quality results from organic compost, using only Apple Cider for PH down and Orange Juice for bloom nuts.
Yield is more dependant on filling the garden with grow tips before you flower the plants, than on anything else.
Imho, the dry nuts will take you further for way less money.

But seriously, try it, tell us how it goes, we wanna know!

PS: heck, saving money *is* an advanced technique...

 

[fishwhistle]

Hell yes it will work,you need to look up some of dankworth's posts,he's pulling buds bigger than his oversized head and over 2 per light also and for alot cheaper.Please post up your source for your dry product so we can compare to others.

 

[dankworth]

Hell yes it will work,you need to look up some of dankworth's posts,he's pulling buds bigger than his oversized head and over 2 per light also and for alot cheaper.Please post up your source for your dry product so we can compare to others.

My 2/light run I was not as happy with as I wanted to be, and was actually not done with my salts. Just to clarify.
I do not think I will hit 2/light on this one, too rocky of a start, 80 watts/ft2 not being optimal for total room yield, lots of things make me think this run will be under 2/light.
However, the insights I am gaining are priceless.

Mississippi Hip talked about some nute company he uses that reverse engineers the formulas of other nute companies, and sells the salts for hella cheap.

I really like the idea of taking a proven formula, then reverse engineering it to simply be cheaper. At least using that for a starting point.

Thanks for the props fishwhistle.

One of the things I go on about is saving money on inputs so one can then have more money for environmental controls, dialed environment has so much to do with yield.

 

[LexLuthor]

I don't have experience making my own ferts, but I'm buying MKP, Ca nitrate, sulfate of potash, K nitrate, epsom and MOST (micros) in 2 days. I've been reading ALOT about this for almost a year now and I believe its the best way to go when growing in a hydro setup. Sorry I don't have much help for you, but just copy someones proven formula (dankworth or capulator for example) and you should get very good results for a fraction of the cost. Thats what I'm gonna do when the new growroom is ready, my nutrients in ppm will look something like this during veg, 120-40-160-120-60, basically a 3-1-4 ratio. Second half of flower might be around 100-60-180-100-50 a 2-1-3 ratio with PK spikes in weeks 2, 4, and 6. Good luck.

P.S. I just noticed this thread is a few months old, so how did your plants turn out?

 

[konakings]

Hey Lex, did NOT turn to dry bagged nutes till this run. I read these three threads.

https://www.thcfarmer.com/community...overpriced-hydroponic-nutrients.35395/page-20

https://www.thcfarmer.com/community...grow-log-from-seed-pure-coco-co2.50056/page-4

https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/jacks-back-capulators-new-formulas.50080/page-9

I used H&G full lineup last time and was very happy with the results. I have been using JR Peters hydro for veg and they are loving it. Here is my recipe.


Jacks Hydro Pro Formula PH 6.0

Jacks Hydro Pro 3 grams

Cal Nitrate at 2 grams

and Epsom Salts at .75 grams

CaCI2 .07 - .25 grams

MOST .1 gram

ProTekt Silica 2ml / gallon

Hope that helps. Will be posting a new journal in a few days, stay tuned and thanks for asking.

 

[LexLuthor]

Cool, what is the ppm for NPK Ca and Mg of your formulation if you know?

 

[Capulator]

Hey Lex, did NOT turn to dry bagged nutes till this run. I read these three threads.

https://www.thcfarmer.com/community...overpriced-hydroponic-nutrients.35395/page-20

https://www.thcfarmer.com/community...grow-log-from-seed-pure-coco-co2.50056/page-4

https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/jacks-back-capulators-new-formulas.50080/page-9

I used H&G full lineup last time and was very happy with the results. I have been using JR Peters hydro for veg and they are loving it. Here is my recipe.


Jacks Hydro Pro Formula PH 6.0

Jacks Hydro Pro 3 grams

Cal Nitrate at 2 grams

and Epsom Salts at .75 grams

CaCI2 .07 - .25 grams

MOST .1 gram

ProTekt Silica 2ml / gallon

Hope that helps. Will be posting a new journal in a few days, stay tuned and thanks for asking.

you will do just fine with that.

 

[konakings]

Hey Lex here is the link to JR Peters website.

The NPK of the base fertilizer is 5-12-26 and the Calcium Nitrate is 15-0-0.

Hey Capulator, what would you use as a bloom feeding schedule? I am just about ready to flip the lights. The same thing? Think I should use moab powder / hammerhead combo with the JR Peters? Thanks bud!

Just got your 3 pack and brewed my first tea! Wow, wow, wow.... all I have to say. I got pics and will be posting in your thread. Thanks for all your time and dedication.

 

[Capulator]

Hey Lex here is the link to JR Peters website.

The NPK of the base fertilizer is 5-12-26 and the Calcium Nitrate is 15-0-0.

Hey Capulator, what would you use as a bloom feeding schedule? I am just about ready to flip the lights. The same thing? Think I should use moab powder / hammerhead combo with the JR Peters? Thanks bud!

Just got your 3 pack and brewed my first tea! Wow, wow, wow.... all I have to say. I got pics and will be posting in your thread. Thanks for all your time and dedication.

run it all the way through. Cut in half the base nute when you apply moab.

 

[LexLuthor]

Isn't MOAB just MKP with a very small amount of a B vitamin? If so, will MKP give you similar results as MOAB?

 

[konakings]

Lex... here is Capulators MOAB formula

"RECIPE FOR MOAB w/out vitamin B-1 @ 1 tsp/5 gal:

.1 grams/gal MAP
1.07 grams per gallon MKP

this is based on my MOAB weighing 5.7 grams per teaspoon and coming out to

N:3
P:68
K: 80

when added to 5 gallons of water (recommended dose is 1-2 tsp per 5 gal)

.1 MAP and 1.07 MKP comes out to

N: 3
P: 71
K: 80

so its pretty close considering the small amounts being used. If you want 2 tsp/5 gal strength just double it. .2 MAP and 2.14 MKP."​

Is this still accurate CAP?​

On a side note... what did you think of Jack's Bloom Booster? Would you use it with MOAB? Thanks​

 

[homebrew420]

We run a very similar formula, in fact we use chem grow nutes. They work great. If you were using the JRpeters you will be happier with the Chem grow,dissolves in seconds no residual ferts. Also no need for the extra CaCl or MOST(careful with this, it's a lot of micros), silica is fine but remember it is about the proper ratios, and Jacks has a load of K already. MOAB is MKP with triacontanol. It will do nearly if not the same. One of my partners at the garden is currently using the chem grow Tomato straight through. Works like a charm.
welcome to the enlightened side my friend. Great luck in all you do

Peace

 

[LexLuthor]

Thanks konakings.

homebrew, do you know if triacontanol is a PGR?? I think I heard it was, but then I seen others say its safe.

If anyone knows, does the tria in MOAB make a big difference? I've seen people all over the web say there buds explode when they use MOAB, but I never seen anyone say that about MKP as a PK boost.

 

[konakings]

Hey Homebrew. You think chemgro beats Jacks? Chemgro was the original company I was looking at but decided to go with Jacks as it is more well known on the farm. Was there any significant difference between the two. Jacks for me dissolves almost instantly and leaves no residue.

 

[homebrew420]

lex it is a pgr, the stuff is impressive in studies, don't really know if it would make a diff on cannabis but trial in wheat nad aother grains is impressive. I picked up some Calcium-25 from customhydronutrients, never used it though. haha I don't know why. Tria is better used as a foliar, at least for the Ca-25, so I too am curious if the PGR does anything, also it is oddly soluable compound and because of that I wonder if its mixed correctly. Too much mystery for me to drop that kind of cash on a MKP substitute. I am cheap.

kona i feel it is better than Jacks, far cheaper and it is identical in terms of macros micros has a slightly higher amount of sulfur than Jacks. Ph stabillity is better and keep in mind the amounts suggested to be used will do you right so long as your growing under T5 or more intense light. We ran under LEDs for some time and realized a great deal of salt buildup simply because they wer not able to grow fast enough, very minor tip burn before they made it under the halides. We just buy the standard hydro formula by the 250lb load. last almost a year and purchase the magsulfate and mkp extra, . We as a garden are not currently using the Tomato formula but I think we may switch for ease of use. Not that mixing an extra salt is too troublesome.
Hope this helps

Peace

 

[LexLuthor]

lex it is a pgr, the stuff is impressive in studies, don't really know if it would make a diff on cannabis but trial in wheat nad aother grains is impressive. I picked up some Calcium-25 from customhydronutrients, never used it though. haha I don't know why. Tria is better used as a foliar, at least for the Ca-25, so I too am curious if the PGR does anything, also it is oddly soluable compound and because of that I wonder if its mixed correctly. Too much mystery for me to drop that kind of cash on a MKP substitute. I am cheap.

I seen on another thread you can buy it on ebay, so I might mess with it later next year.

Thanks for the info.