ebb & flow & a light cycle flip

[gudkarma]

i have an opportunity to change my "lights on" schedule from night time to daytime...

right now, this is TONS better for my security &, since my set up went from a couple dozen plants in 2 closets to a lab with three ebb tables and many more plants, it'll be easier to fit garden time into my personal schedule.

my plan : skip regular lights on & go with 24 hours of dark & resume 12/12 the following morning

a) hopefully i can get an answer real quick... as i'd like to bust this out tonight

b) less hypothetical & more actual experience ...with all respect, please dont respond if you're green & lack experience as i have 65 plants riding on this

c) i have done this before but in soil... had no issues

d) set up : ebb & flow tables : hydroton in square pots

question : worried about stem rot while flooding in the dark, and considering there is good air flow around the room, shoud i run (any) floods for this extended dark period?

in the past, i experimented with flooding in the dark & lost plants to stem rot.

please advise.

TIA!!!

 

[Genius Genetics]

it all sounds good to me bro

i would flood the table just before you kill the lights
let the plants soak up the water/feed and then do the extended dark period
that should last 24hours
all depends on how hot/warm the grow area is when the lights are off
if its quite warm you may need 1 flood at 12hour mark
the problem is, if you water to much when the lights are off you will run the risk off gettin mold/rot

 

[strictlyOG]

I have 3 different rooms so i had the same issue. i know your trying to be on the safe side and all. but i skipped the 24 hour dark period and i had to set them on different schedules while they were flowering .& i had no stress, no issues, and they def did not turn into hermie's, and etc. just set the timer and let em ride make sure you feed before and i would def use some b-52. good luck!

 

[Bobby Smith]

You should be fine - I always flooded at least once or twice during night hours, but also had my humidity pretty well in check.

Certainly one night of flooding isn't gonna ruin your plants or cause stem rot - that's a given - you can always switch the flood times tomorrow (or the next day) and get your flood times back in sync with your lighting time.

BTW, have gone totally media-less in all my setups so have another 40 gallons of hydroton (and other shit) if you want it - drop me a PM whenever, I'm always around :)

EDIT: should mention I've done the 24 hours of darkness routine as well many times sans hermies or anything else - the plants don't even notice, IMO - it's just a cloudy day to them.

DOUBLE EDIT: just read your post again and realized you were asking something I was missing - yes, definitely flood at least once (I'd do twice if not three times) during the 24 hour period - your plants *probably* won't dry out in the 24 hours, but I wouldn't take the chance.

Also, sounds like you're going to have lights on during the day and lights off during the night? Realize that you may need to up your heating setup to deal with the cooler night time / lights off temps, as day temps can mitigate the heating needs when lights are off.

 

[gudkarma]

hahahaha... i saw you mentioned the media-less thing in another post.

i'll take your advice on the night floods.

just scored a real nice portable a/c ...i'm already thinking summer.

i've thought about making a lid out of hard foam for either neoprene collars or net pots & hydroton for my flood tables.

* how do you have your pumps covered or protected? you using socks or pantyhose? if socks how do you have them on?

i'm moving a part of my veg (clones) over to ebb & flow. getting an aero cloner real soon.

was gonna root in the aero cloner, go with 3x3 or 4x4 rockwool cubes, and set up a small ebb tray inside my veg closet.

some strains i have need more veg time (sour d & the green jackberry pheno) but i also need to contain the root growth. going straight to flower is good but two weeks veg time after rooting is better.

i need to be able to root more cuts in less space... so bubble cloning is outta here.

was gonna set the 3x3 rckwool cubes on top of the hydroton & pots for more root room.

nevertheless, i'll definitely scoop up whatever you dont need & put it to very real use.

those huge air stones i got from you... are DA BOMB.

that rez leaked all over the fuckin place. thanks homie :-) no matter though ...i bought a back up just in case (and so all my shit would match :-).

so far, i got a total handle on night temps.

my room (10' x 7.5' x 8') is first and foremost insulated properly top to bottom... i built out a cinderblock corner of my garage.

r15 is serving me well & the roof is 2" tuff foam.
next season, i plan to throw 6" of extra fiberglass up top for extra lovin.

if i need to score a bigger heater ...got that already as back up.

you whores got me thinking about a mini split... i just dont know how i can do that without more electric use. everyday my lab keeps growing & growing. but i will not go over 3k watts total system/room power.

media less sounds bomb... especially for veg.

i do love my hydroton... even cleaning it doesn't bother me.

we'll talk via PM.

and if you need anything before we connect, let me know.

 

[Bobby Smith]

Damn bro, that's totally my fault - evidently I didn't tell you that I stopped using that rez because it leaks - sorry bro, I hope it wasn't too bad :worried

As far as my pumps I never had them in anything (but that's because they all have prefilters built into them - Ecoplus pumps) but have purchased three large pump bags (for my 1/6HP pumps that don't have prefilters) so I might use one on my veg pump.

And I'm right about there (600 watts veg, 2400 watts flower) and this is plenty of electric for me - actually gonna step down to 2K watts flowering sooner rather than later.

As far as lids go, the Botanicare lid that fits your 2x4 tray is $65 and you can do whatever you want with it - had them drill me 5" holes in mine at the store I got it from.

 

[gudkarma]

o000000000hHH SANPS... i just googled those botanicare lids.

=========> 100% my style!

gimme the scoop... you like em? no issues? you using just collars? where did you get them? how many plants do yours (4x4) hold?

from the language you used, it sounds like yours were custom cut. am i right?

are they made outta that plastic that shatters when cut improperly?

dish the dirt please.

mr bobby smith i love that you love to grow... you always got the good information!!

mad props homie. + rep

that leaky rez was no big deal. i put about 20 gallons of h2o into it, went inside to mix up my base nutes, & several gallons leaked out.

shop vac'd it & done.

no drama, homie.
though good thing i was around ...and i dont keep cords on the floor.

recently, i had a pump (temporarily) fail from crap (bits of root, etc) in my rez... was thinking pump socks all the way.

you say 2k watts for flower but all the other doo-dads in that NASA style rocketship control center you call a grow room has to add up to another 3k watts :-)

i got a gift for you next time we hook (puff, puff) :harvest:

 

[Bobby Smith]

DOUBLE EDIT: You're asking me about a 4x4, but mine is a 2x4, just like yours - BTW, still have that 4x4 tray and have no way to use it, so it's yours if you want it.

Haven't really run it long enough to see if there are any issues, but from the couple hours I've run it so far (just testing it out, still not setup properly) I fucking love it - I can't stand pebbles, so getting them outta my life for good is very liberating :)

But yeah, no issues at all - made of really strong plastic and fits the tray like a fucking glove - straight airtight.

Also comes with dimpled markers for where you can (should) put the holes - there's 15 per lid (I used 8), but you could go more if you wanted - however, I think 15 plants in 3" netpots would do you righteous in a 2x4 footprint.

And yeah, from what I understand (and have noticed), pantyhose is pretty similar in material to the $15 bags I bought, so wrapping a pump in that wouldn't be a bad call, IMO.

And there's lotsa doohickeys that use lotsa electric in my room, but they (hopefully) will rarely if ever come on :)

EDIT: forget to answer your question about the inserts - have 5" netpots with 5" (obviously) neoprene inserts - can't foresee any issue with these at all.

The way I figure it, by the time the plant is large enough that the trunk might disfigure the insert (or be heavy enough to fall through the insert) the roots will be so large that they'll be supporting the plant anyway, similar to Ben D.'s thread where a plant collapsed the UC lid but simply supported itself with its rootmass.

Stoked to get this setup rocking.

 

[gudkarma]

token of my DEEPEST appreciation

yours : for next time we connect :

like i said, if you dont need it, i'll take & use it !!

the 4x4 tray would require an internal room re-design ...but i could stash it for future use ...and i am 100% sure it wouldn't sit long :-)

right now, rectangular shapes fit my room best.

most importantly, i don't want to take for the sake of taking (greed) cause that's not my style.

 

[gudkarma]

from the language you used, it sounds like yours were custom cut. am i right?

are they made outta that plastic that shatters when cut improperly?

details please.

 

[Bobby Smith]

from the language you used, it sounds like yours were custom cut. am i right?

are they made outta that plastic that shatters when cut improperly?

My bads bro, missed this one - um, they were "semi" custom cut, I guess.

On the 2x4 tray lid, there's a 3x5 grid of dimples (15 total dimples) for where Botanicare recommends you put your netpots.

XXXXX
XXXXX
XXXXX

So they do the "measuring" for you in terms of where to put your netpots; then, the guy at the shop (I could've easily done it myself) simply took a 5" holesaw and drilled 8 of the 15 dimples out for me (the red X's above).

As far as the plastic "shattering", I guess it *could* if you really fucked up while you were drilling it, but you'd have to try to make it do that, methinks - the dude who drilled mine probably weighed about 120 pounds soaking wet and drilled them with no problem (using a shitty drill whose battery kept on dying, no less).

I'm 100% sure I could do it myself in 10 minutes, tops (including a cig break in the middle).

If you're talking about the plastic cracking during actual use from the weight of plants, no, I don't see that as being very feasible at all - guessing you'd need close to 100 pounds to even really stress that plastic, and if you can fit 100 pounds in a 2x4 tray (even including leaves, stems, etc.) than you need to patent that system :)

I'll take a pic within the half hour and post it up.

 

[gudkarma]

great.

now i can visualize the material & have no doubt i can drill it myself (loved the skinny hydro guy details).

15 plants in a 4x2 isn't all that good IMO when i get 23 in a 3x2 w/o any issue whatsoever.

but maybe different lids for different applications.

already i have to wonder how many 2" collars i could get into one of these lids & if it'd be rigid after so much material removed.

thoughts on most holes vs. net pot size?

sounds like i'd be nice to do a few (cut only) moms like that in a tray with the 5" (or even 6") collar size you suggest too.

i'm definitely gonna look into this more.

a few pics would ice the cake.

shit, bro, i hate dirt as much as you hate hydroton.

* i've taken to cutting the bottoms off my net pots & just using the collar & side parts.

 

[Bobby Smith]

Lemme get a few good pics for you and you can see for yourself - I'm not describing it very well.

The dimples I speak of are really just holesaw bit starter holes and are just there for your (our) benefit - you could do 32 plants in there if you wanted (and is the setup I'd do if doing a SOG), you'd just have to measure and do the layout (marking of X's) yourself.

32 holes of 2" netpots would work AWESOME on this lid, trust me.

Just get a small bit and put in your own starter holes where the X's are, swap out for your holesaw bit, do three minutes of drilling and you're done :)

Gimme a little less than an hour to get those pics for ya, gotta run out and grab some smokes.........

 

[gudkarma]

this hardcore SOGer (till dey bury me) is STOKED on the plant count!

everytime i read about dirt, microbes, and tiger ball & rhino horn teas i wanna hurl... just kidding (sort of).

love hydro, sterile rezzies, and such.
LOVE IT.

shwing, massive boner, & all that on those lids... on it at this very moment in another window. all i need to do is run my set up the other way using your (old, my new) tray for weeks 1 to 3.

my best yeild ever was in that 4x2 just for shear plant volume it could accept.

:)

shit, i'll have this done in foam & metal tape style & running in veg by weeks end. fuck rockwool. i can run this easy peasy.

and, i've been flowering off moms (making room) for the last few months.

with lids in veg, i save $ & dont have to spend as often.

still wanna finish in hydroton ...at least till i get comfortable using lids.

my final lid question : how often are you filling the tray... more like aero every5 minutes... or still like ebb tables every three (ish) hours?

gracias, una vez mas, amigo mio.

i have an ultra keen visual ability... if you're feelin lazy, pics arent necessary... but appreciated always.

and i'll still snatch that hydroton if you really dont want it.

i'd drive out just for that... and we could exchange gifts.

and my gift wasn't possible w/o yours months ago.

no homo : but i cant say thanks enough.

 

[Bobby Smith]

Again, only had plants in it for a few hours just testing it out, but I'm planning on flooding every half hour or so - have a 633GPH pump which fills that tray in a couple of minutes (have a Home Depot digital timer for it, takes about three minutes).

So three minutes every half hour - kinda in-between E&F and DWC - hoping for 95% of the growth rate of DWC with none of the nasty root rot side effects.

Anyhow, here's the pics - the one of me taking a pic of the dimple is a little hard to see, but just to give you an idea of how small they are.

And don't be silly, bro - I'd rather give my extra gear to someone who will use it than have it sitting in my garage collecting dust - just keep on growing good meds for yourself, that's all the thanks I'm looking for :)

Oh, and those airstones are the shit - love those little suckers.......

EDIT: gave that fucker a nice little push while I was taking pics to see how strong it was - I'm closer to 300 pounds than 200 pounds, and that lid was plenty strong enough to push back on me - I have zero concerns about its strength and ability to hold up plants - again, 32 plants in a 4x8 pattern with that lid would be the shit.

 

[gudkarma]

okay.

i built an ebb tray, lined with panda plastic & a cap ebb & flow fill/drain, from one of those underbed long storage boxes.

working on the lid tonight/tomorrow. ordered pump. net baskets & collars.

shooting for 30 sites (ish) in the lid.

good lookin out, homie.

everything went smooth with the flip so thanks for the info.

of course, the wall mount fan came this afternoon... a half day late.

i'll post pics of the media-les veg ebb tray i'm throwing together as soon as i get some plants in it :-)

how are your plants doing?

 

[Bobby Smith]

Got 120 clones (hopefully) rooting right now........of course, still going over shit in my head trying to get this first run in this system to be perfect (a fool's errand, to be sure, but it's my nature) - actually contemplating a total rebuild right now (I'm a nut, no doubt).

Methinks you're gonna love the lid system - I am honestly so happy to get those rocks outta my life for good - it's quite liberating :)

 

[gudkarma]

you've used the word "liberating" twice now with regard to hydroton... i'll take you very seriously.

trust me, i'll be running something similar soon enough... just for vegging rooted cuts though.

are your journaling your first run in that super HUGE thread of yours?

you know i wanna watch :-)

what strains you bumpin?

dude, the electric co. got me on the third $ fucking tier... my bill is bonkers.

broham, my consumption is total house $250 ish & they BLAST MY ANUS for an extra $250 in service & distribution charges.

crazy.

i might have to start flippin to make some extra $ jingo jango $.