EMPLOY H&T for inducing SAR

[click80]

Just ordered Employ H&T which contains the Harpin alpha beta protein...this product replaces the original formulation named Messenger Plant Health Activator. Here is a link for more info



Just clones an SDK and put in some fem's OG seeds and growth should coincide with arrival of the Employ. Will run a side by sides v/s Aspirin and a control group. Probably 20 each. Will update then. Anyone used this before?

EDIT/// Will be cloning tomorrow, spent today getting rid of a potential fungus gnat problem. What has happened to quality control with soilless mixes? Or was i just lucky my first 20 or so bags. Roots Organic is terrible now.

And in case anyone would like to file this one away, I was going to microwave some dirt in case of any larvae from the gnats. One gnat must have been in the dirt that I put in microwave. Nuked the son of a bitch for over a minute and he was still flying around laughing at me....WTF?

 

[Aerojoe]

Sounds interesting man, keep us posted.

 

[click80]

thanks man, I am pretty excited. I have heard a lot of good things being done with this in the locavore growing community, commercial ornamentals, and smaller commercial greenhouses. Large scale trials have been done and once I get my bookmark folder straight I will post those studies. I have found nothing but fantastic results. Whether it will benefit flowering in cannabis could be another thing entirely but I am betting that it will increase yield, especially with CO2.

 

[psilo]

Looking forward to this.

Thanks

 

[dankworth]

Bti from Cap's foliar pack will eliminate your gnats.
Microbelift has a bti product. It comes in a jar.
They put a dead rat in the jar. Then someone pooped on the rat. Then they mix the bti in that.

It is somewhere between a product and a mean-spirited practical joke.

I like Cap's bennies better. No smell.

 

[click80]

thanks for the interest everyone...like i said i am pretty excited. Should be here by friday or monday....I am going to use it on my moms too so I should see some prelim results fairly quick.

man I had the microbelift and I think it died on me towards the end. I had the one for ponds that was like 2.5 ml/2000 gallons or some such crazy shit. I just did .5 ml per 5 gallons and it worked fine until recently.

Not familiar with CAP foliar pack, my local hydro store is small.

I def prefer the Bti. Was thinking about doing the mosquito dunks by crumbling them in the top layer of soil. I am going to order some of the Microbelift anyway....too good a deal. This time i will be more careful about sticking pipettes in there that have already been in something else. I think that's what happened. I accidentally did that a couple times. Shit I had that bottle for like 8 months or so. Used it all the time.

I was wondering if I could use too much of the Bti and it crowd out other bennies....random thought.


btw...ewwwwww....dead rat...yeah it has a distinctive smell...lol

I wonder if i get my dog to poop in my jar will it come back???? NOT

 

[dankworth]

Mosquito dunks don't work. Not like Microbelift anyway. You can crumble them up and then buy more and then be pissed because they are still there. That is what happened to me. Dunks over medium, dunks in res, didn't do shit.

Cap being Capulator of the bennies on this site. Much better value for spore count/colony forming units per gram with his products than from any hydro store product so far.

 

[click80]

Mosquito dunks don't work. Not like Microbelift anyway. You can crumble them up and then buy more and then be pissed because they are still there. That is what happened to me. Dunks over medium, dunks in res, didn't do shit.

Cap being Capulator of the bennies on this site. Much better value for spore count/colony forming units per gram with his products than from any hydro store product so far.

cool thanks...I know who you mean...I have been meaning to get on here and look up Cap because i have seen his name mentioned a few times....

I used to use Subculture M and B, but use Great White now. Some time ago I came across a study/test done on some of the top brands and the results had Hydrofarms Subculture and Great White at the top. Can't find that study, just finished looking. I do know I could always see results with Subculture. I seem to get as good in not better results with Great White, and Great White doesnt have the Humic in it. I prefer to feed the bennies differently.

I love bennies for my moms and for clones. I had almost three times as many root strands when cloning with Great White going up against Clonex Solution and plain Water....WAY better results.

I have a system down now that is working fantastic. I use Compost Tea (Bountea) once a week, Alfalfa Tea once every week and a half, and in between I use plain water with Hormex (every two weeks about) or with Great White (every two weeks). Best moms ever and hardly have to use any Old Age Grow, and I mean barely any at all.

Anyway I am way off topic...so thanks for the info and yeah I will check him out tomorrow.

 

[click80]

H2O2 and Harpin

Here are two different links one is a study defining the elicited response from the Harpin Protein...the first one is to a page that shows side by side photo results from soybean seeds treated with Harpin vs those not treated or treated with a different seed treatment...you can choose from different locations the side by sides were done so you compare the different results....good link



http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1219116/pdf/9461499.pdf

Programmed cell death is increasingly viewed as a key component of the hypersensitive disease resistance response of plants. The generation of reactive oxygen species (ROS) such as H2O2 triggers a cell death programme in Arabidopsis suspension cultures following challenge with the bacterial elicitor harpin. Both harpin and exogenous H2O2 initiate a cell death pathway that requires gene expression, and also act as signalling molecules to induce the expression of plant defence genes encoding enzymes such as phenylalanine ammonia-lyase (PAL), glutathione S-transferase (GST) and anthranilate synthase (ASA1), an enzyme of phytoalexin biosynthesis in Arabidopsis. H2O2 induces the expression of PAL1 and GST but not that of ASA1. Harpin initiates two signalling pathways, one leading to increased ROS generation and expression of PAL1 and GST mRNA, and another leading to increased GST and ASA1 expression, independent of H2O2.

 

[girlwondergrows]

This is a subject I'm very interested in, thank you for bringing it up. Any info you can provide it welcomed. One thing, what kind of surfactants are being used in the studies? Are the harpin proteins small enough to get into the cells without any help?

 

[click80]

This is a subject I'm very interested in, thank you for bringing it up. Any info you can provide it welcomed. One thing, what kind of surfactants are being used in the studies? Are the harpin proteins small enough to get into the cells without any help?

TBH I have not had much time to sit down and read. What little I have been reading has been on Pythium...BORING and DEPRESSING..lol

I am waiting on it to arrive and see what inert ingredients are in it. I would imagine that if it is on the molecular size of a protein then getting into stomata would not be a problem...I am just thinking while I type here.

I take it that when the plant cells are exposed to the protein it stimulates activation of four receptors that in turn (gene expression is the mode of action) activate through chemical signaling the SAR response??? That was my take home from that study. The original Harpin protein only activated two receptors....the new Harpin alpha beta protein activates four and that is where the excitement comes in. It will probably take me about ten times reading that to fully understand it, but what the hey I got time.

 

[dankworth]

Permanent lifetime daily +rep for click80.

I swear that individual has nothing but useful informative posts.
You bring value to the farm.

 

[squarepusher]

I was reading through that product, and its listed as quite toxis on the MSDS yeah? You have to wear suit/gloves/mask to apply it? Also it goes bad really fast in a few days once the pack opens, am interested if it goes well hope you keep an update cheers

 

[click80]

Permanent lifetime daily +rep for click80.

I swear that individual has nothing but useful informative posts.
You bring value to the farm.

Thanks man, but I def get just as much back out of the farm for sure.

I have to tell you if you really want to learn a thing or two Desert Squirrel is the guy to read. I have really learned a lot just in the last couple months from following his techniques. Dude should write a book.

and also, knowing a lot through reading is absolutely useless until experience puts that reading to good use.

Thanks again. I love growing this plant.

 

[click80]

I was reading through that product, and its listed as quite toxis on the MSDS yeah? You have to wear suit/gloves/mask to apply it? Also it goes bad really fast in a few days once the pack opens, am interested if it goes well hope you keep an update cheers

If I am not mistaken you are supposed to wear appropriate PPE, such as you mentioned, when even using Neem Oil. I am not saying you cannot get an idea of risk from MSDS, but almost every MSDS says to use appropriate gear when spraying anything.

From the label
Safety
EMPLOY® H&T exhibits a high degree of environmental safety. It is applied at very low rates, has an excellent safety profile, and is rated by the EPA as having the lowest hazard potential. Once the plant's defense activity has been triggered, Harpin Proteins quickly disintegrate in the environment, having never entered the plant and leaving no detectable Harpin Protein residue on harvested plants. Edible crops can be sprayed right up to the day of harvest. The original Messenger product was hailed as a major scientific breakthrough by the USDA and received the EPA's prestigious 2001 Presidential Green Chemistry Challenge Award.

EMPLOY is a new tool for use in Integrated Crop Management (ICM). Product efficacy is based on its ability to activate the plant's own internal defense and growth mechanisms. EMPLOY works best when used in conjunction with good crop management practices.

Important: EMPLOY is a natural product, but is not certified USDA Organic and may not be used as part of a USDA Organic agriculture program.

 

[Donkdbz]

Damn them they will not ship to cali
Anyone know where to get it shipped to cali?

 

[StonerB]

Check local hydro stores. I wont drop a name due to the chance of losing my source but many stores have box behind the counter thats got Avid, Sulpher prills, you name it just ask. You will have better luck if you are a regular or known to the employees (nobody wants a several thousand dollar fine to make 20 bucks )

 

[Aerojoe]

any updates on this click?

 

[click80]

Yeah, I did but it's gone....crap. I will give quick synopsis. First of all this stuff is the shit, gut feeling. I got it, foliared (per instructions for established plants) my moms. Def observed good response, but not any greater than using Alfalfa Tea. Since then, I cloned those moms and those little farts busted roots in 4 days in RRooters. Not just one or two and waiting on rest, but almost all of them. (Oh, I also got to reading more about this stuff, and I did a root drench on moms also. Much bigger response, this was prior to the cloning) I have two Deathstar moms that are getting this treatment, they are about 5th or 6th generation of making moms from clones off original mom, which was also from a clone. These have turned into the healthiest that any of them have ever been. I have also noticed that the Dstar and DoubleSour are putting out a lot of 9 petal (whatever) leaves. Have had one or two before on the SourDoubleKush, but never on the Dstar. The PExpress I treated is doing great also, more on that at another update. I say that its worth the money. I also say go with root drench because what would be the difference? Right?

I think that it not only does what it claims but also boosts regular treatments. I just did an Alfalfa Tea treatment on moms, I always do this after cloning, and I am pretty sure I am getting much more of a response than usual. I will update once I get my thoughts together on this. I will say that all this could be that I am just getting better at taking care of moms, but gut feeling is that this stuff is going to be a keeper.

Oh, the place I got it from included their own little set of directions. One thing was that they said that if you seal it up in a ziplock baggie and/or put in a mason jar and put into refridgerator it will keep up to a year. But that stipulates when taking out of fridge, let sit long enough so that any condensation goes away before opening.

I am pressed for time cause since I am used to about 10 days total for clones to all be ready for Rwool, these are ready in 6 total and I actually should have put them in rwool yesterday. This is not my final word, but these clones are really really healthy. I am going to treat these clones with what is left. I will do a root drench after they are established well in the rwool. I guess my other update got lost in the changeover.

 

[Aerojoe]

Thanks for the update click, a lot of good stuff got lost in the change over. Sad they put all this time to try to save threads but still ended up losing a few weeks, at least we now can upload better quality pics.

Keep any more info you have for the harpin protein coming good sir.