exp grower needs help with this one,water?

[stealthfarmer]

ok i moved to a place that is pretty dry and around 10k feet up above sea lvl.been having problems and could'nt fig out why as im a really clean know what im doing type of grower.anyways i run dwc,1k light per 4 plants fim'd an nutes,hygrozime,f1,h2,st,b52,vho,carbo load,so on as needed.

kept buying clones only to have them not take off and end up dying.had a real big plant going really nice,so at first i thought it was bad clones i.e root rot as it kept looking as if the roots were dying off and the dead roots would be floating in the water and a brownish build up would be around the rim on top around the water. then all the sudden my big nice plant i had going goes limp 1 day.i was like wtf? everything looked clean in that bucket.i ended up cutting her down and breaking the root ball open to find what looks to have been rotted inside with on top of that white/grey fuzz,mold maybe?it stunk really bad almost like a dead body or something to the effect. anyways i was thinking root rot?

so then i set up these 2 buckets with water and st as i was about to stick some cuttings i had rooting in them.i let them sit for 2 days with air stones in them no roots no nothing.and as you will see in the pics i post i have no clue what it is? it's not slimmy like algae i keep all rez's light proof so?? can pythium grow in buckets of water with no roots?

about my water it's a well and had no filter at all none.idk how the owner got away with this but i went and bought a sediment filter and hooked it to the 1 faucet i draw water from.my base ppm's went from 35 to 18.im thinking it's gotta be the water?what else could it be?anyways here's the pics.

 

[Cannastyle]

Looks like its time for a RO unit...

Does the water have a smell to it?

 

[Seamaiden]

Oh my God. Is that how it looks straight out of the tap?

 

[Malachi]

Looks like a bacteria infestation bro, is anyone drinking that water? If I was going to use that water I would def. use a RO filter and run a dead res. with H2o2.

 

[Boots Sugarleaf]

I wonder if being at 10,000 feet has anything to do with it? highest I ever grew was a little over 4k feet, I never tried higher though

looks like you need a good water filter though and see if that does the trick

 

[stealthfarmer]

all the water comes out somewhat clean but does smell alil from time to time.but this water here u see has been ran through a sediment filter hooked to the cold water tap in the room i am in.once ran through the filter it comes out clean with no smell at all.but after 2 to 3 days of being in a bucket with air pumped into it then this stuff here forms like you see and gets into the root system and from what it looks like it is clogging the roots up to where they can't uptake water or oxygen.

my ?? now is"because i have never ran an r.o system" is if i buy a good one that will get me to O ppm's would that get rid of this.i guess a better way to ask is if it gets the water to O ppm's is there anything like whatever this is that is so small that it would'nt be picked up on a tds meter? "below O ppm's"?

btw i was thinking last nite about it and something popped into my head.these air pumps have an air intake.what this stuff looks like reminds me of dust that is collected then pumped into the water.see it's very dry up here about 10 to 15 % on avg.the mountain dirt or whatever stays in the air and it's kindda like a clay in a way.it's so bad i have to clean my computer tower out once a week. so my ?? to that would besay it was just clay or dirt being pumped into the rez on a very tiny scale.would that clog the root zone and cause the roots to start dying? i don't see it really but thats the only other thing i can see?

im running a bucket right now with just tap water ran through the filter to see what it does.1 with air 1 without.

thanks for the help and comments.i hope it's something simple to fix cause i really don't want to have to go buy 50+ gal of clean water a week.i hope that if it is the water i can get a good ro system and that be good enough?? really would like more info on these ro systems.i see one on htg that looks good anyone with alot of exp on ro's plz jump in here ty.

 

[stealthfarmer]

Looks like a bacteria infestation bro, is anyone drinking that water? If I was going to use that water I would def. use a RO filter and run a dead res. with H2o2.

no i have a water cooler with a 5 gal jug i use to cook and drink from.what i don't understand is how someone could build a house and install a well with no filter at all...

 

[Boots Sugarleaf]

runnin co2? air pumps in the room with co2 would be bad?? no oxygen for the roots??

just a guess

the dust sounds like a good guess as well.

I find it really hard to believe it is the water but until you get the water tested you may not know.

a good water test should be $200 or less

 

[MASSES 420KING]

Looks like you got hard water try distilling it for 4-5 days before using the water

 

[thefabman]

Our county health dept will test for $10 a sample..

 

[foolsgold]

:giggle

 

[stealthfarmer]

runnin co2? Air pumps in the room with co2 would be bad?? No oxygen for the roots??

Just a guess

the dust sounds like a good guess as well.

I find it really hard to believe it is the water but until you get the water tested you may not know.

A good water test should be $200 or less

nope on co2

 

[stealthfarmer]

:giggle

? let me in on the joke?

 

[CHILKaT]

Looks like biofilm. It's not uncommon to have bacteria in well water and proper well maintenance to disinfect should be done regularly(yearly). It's also quite common to have unfiltered well water. The aquifer can be contaminated, well casings, or house pipes can harbor bacteria as well. You can usually get water testing kits from the local health dept and it runs about 20 bucks for standard. The standard water tests will test for total coliform and fecal coliform. Biological Activity Reaction Tests (BARTs) are available for testing for iron and sulfur bacteria in well water. You might check your toilet tanks too, you might see evidence of bacteria formation there as well.

The iron and sulfur bacteria are not known to be harmful to health but are a nuisance causing red, orange, brown, or black slimy stains; musty, or sulfur odors (“rotten egg”),; and red or orange coloration of the water. Iron bacteria can have a smell that may resemble fuel oil, cucumber or sewage and often gives the water a slight metallic taste. These bacteria are quite resistant to chlorination. They grow on small amounts of iron, manganese, and sulfur dissolved in natural groundwater and rock. They occur naturally in aquifers.

These bacteria need only a small amount of air to grow and flourish. The agitation, aeration, and induced flow of water by pumping can provide an environment with the small amounts of air, iron, manganese, and sulfur which allows them to flourish. These can cause nutrient lock out.

Some types of bacteria also feed on polymers in plastic, so anyway...You should do a water test regardless of what's going on with your plants. If you're on well water it's likely you also have a septic tank, these can and do sometimes leach contaminates into the aquifer. Along with the bacterial tests, you should also test for nitrates. Pretty sure it's your water source and nothing to do with altitude. I had no problems at 7500ft, except with the quality of well water, usually hard and mineral heavy too. Our well water tested positive for bacteria, we treated(chlorine) it 6 times and it kept coming back. Half the household and the dog suffered from a intestinal bacterial infection from the water, the other half had no ill effects. Eventually we had to have the well dismantled, and cleaned, thankfully that worked so we didn't have to redrill. High altitude does affect humidity levels though, but I'm sure you know that already.

You really need a RO system! If gives you pure, clean water. Even if you chlorine dose your well, if it's highly mineralized water a large proportion of that chlorine, up to 70% in some cases, synthesizes into chlorides. Chlorides do not kill bacteria but they do cause a lot of reaction problems with other elements in the water. So if you don't go with RO, you can run your water through a uv-c light treatment to kill bacteria (if your water tests are positive for bacteria and this is the cause) they sell these at pond supplies. Good luck, hope this was helpful.

 

[stealthfarmer]

Looks like biofilm. It's not uncommon to have bacteria in well water and proper well maintenance to disinfect should be done regularly(yearly). It's also quite common to have unfiltered well water. The aquifer can be contaminated, well casings, or house pipes can harbor bacteria as well. The standard water tests will test for total coliform and fecal coliform. Biological Activity Reaction Tests (BARTs) are available for testing for iron and sulfur bacteria in well water. You might check your toilet tanks too, you might see evidence of bacteria formation there as well.

The iron and sulfur bacteria are not known to be harmful to health but are a nuisance causing red, orange, brown, or black slimy stains; musty, or sulfur odors (“rotten egg”),; and red or orange coloration of the water. Iron bacteria can have a smell that may resemble fuel oil, cucumber or sewage and often gives the water a slight metallic taste. These bacteria are quite resistant to chlorination. They grow on small amounts of iron, manganese, and sulfur dissolved in natural groundwater and rock. They occur naturally in aquifers.

These bacteria need only a small amount of air to grow and flourish. The agitation, aeration, and induced flow of water by pumping can provide an environment with the small amounts of air, iron, manganese, and sulfur which allows them to flourish. These can cause nutrient lock out.

Some types of bacteria also feed on polymers in plastic, so anyway...You should do a water test regardless of what's going on with your plants. If your on well water it's likely you also have a septic tank, these can and do sometimes leach contaminates into the aquifer. Along with the bacterial tests, you should also test for nitrates. Pretty sure it's your water source and nothing to do with altitude. I had no problems at 7500ft, except with the quality of well water, usually hard and mineral heavy too. High altitude does effect humidity levels, but I'm sure you know that already.

You really need a RO system!

thanks so much for the post,im glad you siad to look in the toilet tank.it is very brown "iron"? also around the top where the water sits it has a very thin film that sits on top of the water.also on top of that it has what looks to be mold growing on top of those spots. it also has this light brown slit looking stuff on all the drain/tank parts.the light brown stuff looks just like the stuff in the buckets. so what could it be?i looked at the water tests the county does and for a basic test it is 35.but for a full test it's 155.but there are many diffrent tests.based on these findings what test would be best?

also found some diy tests online.

http://www.h2okits.com/site/1286521/product/QC PRO-II Well Water Test Kit

would this suffice?

last minute i fig'd i would just take pics not that you want to see my toilet but this will show you what it looks like.

 

[Boots Sugarleaf]

? let me in on the joke?

he made a smart ass comment about expert or experienced, then obviously removed the unnecessary comment. People forget this is The Farm and not RIU!
People typically show respect here.

thanks so much for the post,im glad you siad to look in the toilet tank.it is very brown "iron"? also around the top where the water sits it has a very thin film that sits on top of the water.also on top of that it has what looks to be mold growing on top of those spots. it also has this light brown slit looking stuff on all the drain/tank parts.the light brown stuff looks just like the stuff in the buckets. so what could it be?i looked at the water tests the county does and for a basic test it is 35.but for a full test it's 155.but there are many diffrent tests.based on these findings what test would be best?

also found some diy tests online.

http://www.h2okits.com/site/1286521/product/QC PRO-II Well Water Test Kit

would this suffice?

last minute i fig'd i would just take pics not that you want to see my toilet but this will show you what it looks like.

lookin like hard water/contamination....I bet you get the issue solved now!

 

[foolsgold]

boots is correct. i did make a smart ass remark, but decided to just keep my mouth shut. he is right tho...usually people are very helpful and respectful on this site, and i was just being a dick. the comment was up for about 20mins before i removed it.

 

[CHILKaT]

I'd say that your best investment would be to buy an RO system instead of wasting money on complete testing of the water, which may only indicate you need an RO system. The deposits are from the high minerals in well water, and it does look like iron, and iron bacteria. Aerating it in the bucket it will reproduce quickly. You certainly can't be sure without a water test, but a good RO system should filter out bacteria and you can add a uv to most RO systems later if you think you need to, you might not.

RO systems should also remove
Sodium 85 - 94%
Sulfate 96 - 98%
Calcium 94 - 98%
Potassium 85 - 95%
Nitrate 60 –75%
Iron 94 – 98%
Zinc 95 – 98%
Mercury 95 – 98%
Selenium 94 – 96%
Phosphate 96 – 98%
Lead 95 – 98%
Arsenic 92 – 96%
Magnesium 94 – 98%
Nickel 96 – 98%
Fluoride 85 - 92%
Manganese 94 – 98%
Cadmium 95 – 98%
Barium 95 – 98%
Cyanide 84 – 92%
Chloride 85 – 92%

I don't use hydro, it's too exacting for me. Soil is far more forgiving. But with Hydro, I think the best way is start with an RO system which pretty much gets you at 0ppm. Well water is not like municipal tap water, it is extremely variable and differs with each aquifer. There are a lot of minerals/metals in well water, not always a bad thing, but they can be...if you can afford an RO system, it should greatly improve your growing conditions.

Oh, not sure about the diy test kit. Not sure how the test is performed or where, but when you gather well samples of water, it is usually done separately at the well and from the house. There are certain precautions you have to take not to contaminate the sample, and it needs to be kept on ice and testing within X hours, I believe it's 4 or 6 hours, don't recall. So I can see inaccurate results with diy, but use your best judgment.

 

[stealthfarmer]

I'd say that your best investment would be to buy an RO system instead of wasting money on complete testing of the water, which may only indicate you need an RO system. The deposits are from the high minerals in well water, and it does look like iron, and iron bacteria. Aerating it in the bucket it will reproduce quickly. You certainly can't be sure without a water test, but a good RO system should filter out bacteria and you can add a uv to most RO systems later if you think you need to, you might not.

RO systems should also remove
Sodium 85 - 94%
Sulfate 96 - 98%
Calcium 94 - 98%
Potassium 85 - 95%
Nitrate 60 –75%
Iron 94 – 98%
Zinc 95 – 98%
Mercury 95 – 98%
Selenium 94 – 96%
Phosphate 96 – 98%
Lead 95 – 98%
Arsenic 92 – 96%
Magnesium 94 – 98%
Nickel 96 – 98%
Fluoride 85 - 92%
Manganese 94 – 98%
Cadmium 95 – 98%
Barium 95 – 98%
Cyanide 84 – 92%
Chloride 85 – 92%

I don't use hydro, it's too exacting for me. Soil is far more forgiving. But with Hydro, I think the best way is start with an RO system which pretty much gets you at 0ppm. Well water is not like municipal tap water, it is extremely variable and differs with each aquifer. There are a lot of minerals/metals in well water, not always a bad thing, but they can be...if you can afford an RO system, it should greatly improve your growing conditions.

Oh, not sure about the diy test kit. Not sure how the test is performed or where, but when you gather well samples of water, it is usually done separately at the well and from the house. There are certain precautions you have to take not to contaminate the sample, and it needs to be kept on ice and testing within X hours, I believe it's 4 or 6 hours, don't recall. So I can see inaccurate results with diy, but use your best judgment.

thanks for the info.yea i fig'd i needed an ro,and even found a nice one for 350 that does 50gpd with uv and a 5 gal tank. reason i asked ?? here is it's the best and quickest way to learn something.i knew i needed an ro but what i did'nt know was if it was worth it as in would it get everything out of the water.say you get the water to o ppm's is there something that can be so small that could get past the ro and not be picked up on a tds meter?

 

[stealthfarmer]

he made a smart ass comment about expert or experienced, then obviously removed the unnecessary comment. People forget this is The Farm and not RIU!
People typically show respect here.




lookin like hard water/contamination....I bet you get the issue solved now!

i see,no i never said i was an expert anything,and i really don't see how anyone could call themselfs an expert on anything cause just when you think you have everything fig'd out bam here comes a fly ball outta left field.

besides the ?? was'nt a growing ?? it was a water ??. the saying exp is the best teacher is true.you don't really know anything about a subject until you encounter it first hand.sure i have read many books but never encountered this and it could be so many diffrent things.so if it make someone feel good or superior to laugh or make fun of or whatever then so be it.i was'nt taught to do such things.

besides that thanks to all for the input and thanks chillkat for all the indepth info ty.