EZ Cloner Collars - is there a re-usable option?

PermaClone · Jan 29, 2017

FooDoo, post:

Another follow up email from HTH

"Calcium hydorxide is a by-product when granular chlorine is added to water and raises the pH of the water over time. The range of pH of Calcium Hypochlorite in 1% solution is 8.5 to 11...At a pH of 8.5 there is only a 9% presence of the HOCI, with a 91% presence of the weak OCI-."

Your alleged PhD from HTH mirroring what I said.

UC roots and other products are at pH 6.

Pools are also pH buffered, are they not?

DrMcSkunkins · Jan 30, 2017

You could get some silicone and put it in a dish soap bath until it is firm enough to handle and wrap it around a clone collar and wait for it to cure. Cut it in half and you have a clone collar mold, lube it and fill with silicone and tape together and wait to cure.
Reusable silicone collars

Option 2
Use flex seal in same process

PermaClone · Jan 30, 2017

http://www.watereducationalliance.org/keyinfo.asp

This is a good article about water treatment for plants.

PermaClone · Jan 30, 2017

DrMcSkunkins said:
You could get some silicone and put it in a dish soap bath until it is firm enough to handle and wrap it around a clone collar and wait for it to cure. Cut it in half and you have a clone collar mold, lube it and fill with silicone and tape together and wait to cure.
Reusable silicone collars

Option 2
Use flex seal in same process

Silicone is a good polymer. Def respectable Choice!

You'll need additives to give it more tensile strength AND microwave sensing molecules to ensure it can be microwave sterilizable. I'd also recommend a GAP w/ elliptical outer shape to ensure it sterilizes quickly with a quick dunk for those who prefer dunk-based sterilization but closes slightly upon insertion in the cloner.

squiggly · Feb 2, 2017

There are many side reactions that will take place owing mostly to the agressiveness of the O-Cl moiety.

From the wiki (my annotations in braces [ ] ):

Calcium hypochlorite reacts with carbon dioxide to form calcium carbonate and release dichlorine monoxide:

[This reaction will occur]
Ca(ClO)2 + CO2 → CaCO3 + Cl2O↑
A calcium hypochlorite solution is basic. This basicity is due to the hydrolysis performed by the hypochlorite ion, as hypochlorous acid is weak, but calcium hydroxide is a strong base. As a result, the hypochlorite ion is a strong conjugate base, and the calcium ion is a weak conjugate acid:

ClO- + H2O → HClO + OH−
Similarly, calcium hypochlorite reacts with hydrochloric acid to form calcium chloride, water and chlorine:
Ca(OCl)2 + 4 HCl → CaCl2 + 2 H2O + 2Cl2

[This is essentially the reverse process for how the hypochlorites are produced, which is an equilibrium reaction:

Cl2 + H2O ⇌ HClO + HCl
Cl2 + 4 OH− ⇌ 2 ClO− + 2 H2O +2e
Cl2 + 2 e− ⇌ 2 Cl− ]

End Wiki quote-----------

The answer is essentially that all of this crap will be around.

The primary interplay here is as follows:
The hypochlorite salt will not be entirely soluble. So you have an equilibrium dependency there, it will prefer harder water to go into solution. Once dissolved, there is a second equilibrium that is established relative to the pH of the solution.

At 7.53 pH (pKa of hypochlorous acid) there will be 50% ClO and 50% HClO in the solution.

Now, both species are very reactive along their own pathways--and depending on what else is around that they can scavenge the equilibrium will be pushed in one direction or the other. So if the HClO is able to perform more side reactions the end result is that the equilibrium will favor that side and vice versa.

The resulting species will then go on to affect pH. When you're done you end up with a chemical soup of chlorinated species depending on exactly where you started and what was in your water in the first place.

It should be getting clearer and clearer why this stuff is bad for microorganisms and molecules that stain. It literally rips them apart via oxidative and reductive processes.

DrMcSkunkins · Feb 2, 2017

squiggly said:
There are many side reactions that will take place owing mostly to the agressiveness of the O-Cl moiety.

From the wiki (my annotations in braces [ ] ):

Calcium hypochlorite reacts with carbon dioxide to form calcium carbonate and release dichlorine monoxide:

[This reaction will occur]
Ca(ClO)2 + CO2 → CaCO3 + Cl2O↑
A calcium hypochlorite solution is basic. This basicity is due to the hydrolysis performed by the hypochlorite ion, as hypochlorous acid is weak, but calcium hydroxide is a strong base. As a result, the hypochlorite ion is a strong conjugate base, and the calcium ion is a weak conjugate acid:

ClO- + H2O → HClO + OH−
Similarly, calcium hypochlorite reacts with hydrochloric acid to form calcium chloride, water and chlorine:
Ca(OCl)2 + 4 HCl → CaCl2 + 2 H2O + 2Cl2

[This is essentially the reverse process for how the hypochlorites are produced, which is an equilibrium reaction:

Cl2 + H2O ⇌ HClO + HCl
Cl2 + 4 OH− ⇌ 2 ClO− + 2 H2O +2e
Cl2 + 2 e− ⇌ 2 Cl− ]

End Wiki quote-----------

The answer is essentially that all of this crap will be around.

The primary interplay here is as follows:
The hypochlorite salt will not be entirely soluble. So you have an equilibrium dependency there, it will prefer harder water to go into solution. Once dissolved, there is a second equilibrium that is established relative to the pH of the solution.

At 7.53 pH (pKa of hypochlorous acid) there will be 50% ClO and 50% HClO in the solution.

Now, both species are very reactive along their own pathways--and depending on what else is around that they can scavenge the equilibrium will be pushed in one direction or the other. So if the HClO is able to perform more side reactions the end result is that the equilibrium will favor that side and vice versa.

The resulting species will then go on to affect pH. When you're done you end up with a chemical soup of chlorinated species depending on exactly where you started and what was in your water in the first place.

It should be getting clearer and clearer why this stuff is bad for microorganisms and molecules that stain. It literally rips them apart via oxidative and reductive processes.

With your intelligence and your avatar you remind me of Hamilton Morris

zimbogro · Mar 5, 2019

FooDoo said:
Hypochlorite is hypochlorous acid by just adding water. PH of that water only effects the concentration of that hypochlorous acid.

However, I can see you want do go down with your ship. Maybe A website like maxiumyield will find this thread more useful

I read a thread where you and the permaclone guy were in a heated discussion, lol.

I only recently learned about ORP, as I had used H2O2 in my RDWC systems in an effort to replace UC Roots (It has become increasing impossible to import it to where I am in Southern Africa).

I used the widespread ratio of 3ml/Gal and it worked nicely for a while, until I put too much and that just sent the rest of my grow in a tail spin of repetitive nute locks all the way into the rest of my grow. Im sure others factors also stressed my plants but I suspect that the main culprit was over use of H2O2.

Anyway, i then learned about ORP and ORP meters. I got a meter from Ohaus, thinking theymade kick ass scales and that they are Swiss nerds, lol.

I couldnt wait to get started with taking readings of various H2O2 doses so i could compare and chose the right ratio. WRONG! WRONG! WRONG!

I found out that H2O2 has no effect on ORP readings so the meter is basically useless. It was only later that a grower I follow on IG told me I should use HOCL, but he said nothing more and has not replied my various attempts at getting an answer.

I stared researching then I found myself in a 3 dimensional mind F^&k. Aparently, Ph has an effect as well and if im not mistaken, my ppm readings for the nutes may vary (still havent confirmed that).

Is there anyway you can explain to a dumb ass, what it is I can do myself? Lets say I found HOCL where I live, what concentration would i need? OR, If I attempted to make my own, HOW? HTH is available here so do I have a chance or do I just keep buying the very expensive UC Roots solution?

Thanks

Latvian · Feb 5, 2021

PermaClone said:
It's hard to recommend a method for making hypochlorous acid from unknown water. I wouldn't recommend tap.

I'll put it in jargon, and if you're a chemist, you can map it out.

Buffer RO water to a pH such that upon the addition of alkaline hypochlorite salts the pH lands around 6.0. Further, I'd recommend buffereing you cloner rez to pH 6.0.

Even as a chemist I'm like, fuck that! ...just use hypochlorite at their effective strengths.
0.5 - 2 ppm when exposed to roots

OR

4 ppm for water treatment (particularly if you're on a well)

Man, I hate feeling like an antagonistic, but my manual stays the same.

I got a good, simple recipe with hypochlorite salts and it works well and it's standard dosages. Tested over-and-over again by me and TONS of customers.

-Michael@PermaClone

Hi, thanks for topic, how much need to dilute if I have 10-12% Sodium hypochlorite NaOCL 10,8% active chlorine ? Thank you

Ebbflo · Nov 14, 2025

Less than 30 minutes roots showing using perma clones recipe on his site, but I use hth pool shock 56% at 1 gram per gallon then out of that gallon I use 30ml per gallon in my cloner. Gives me 2.35 ppm Free Chlroine, tested using Hanna checker. I know this is old but just in case anyone is still wondering.

EZ Cloner Collars - is there a re-usable option?

EZ Cloner Collars - is there a re-usable option?

PermaClone

DrMcSkunkins

Dabbling in Oil

PermaClone

PermaClone

squiggly

DrMcSkunkins

Dabbling in Oil

zimbogro

Latvian

Ebbflo

Attachments

EZ Cloner Collars - is there a re-usable option?

EZ Cloner Collars - is there a re-usable option?

PermaClone

DrMcSkunkins

Dabbling in Oil

PermaClone

PermaClone

squiggly

DrMcSkunkins

Dabbling in Oil

zimbogro

Latvian

Ebbflo

Attachments

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