Ez cloner day 10 no roots

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Aqua Man

Aqua Man

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What would you say the high end of water temp you could get away with is? I dont know if I will get away with running my turbokloner over the summer. I have a on/off timer set for 30 seconds each and will probably rotate frozen bottled water out when I remember đŸ˜–
So water temp I say ideal would be 77f that means air temps much higher. The reason being is water temps is going to be a huge influence on the plant temps. I'd say 77f is pretty dam as close as it gets to speed metabolism as high as possible. This is an aeroponic cloner so you don't need to worry about higher water temps having a lower o2 level. They have access to as much o2 as they want.

Even at 80f they should be fine. With hydro I run 72-74f I find this to give the fastest growth rates and greatly faster than 68f. The difference is what you see in overall plant temps. The only drawback is while it increases plant metabolism it also increases bacteria metabolism and the reproductive rates increase immensely so you need to stay on top of it. It doesn't cause root rot like many say. I think I may make a write up on all this as there is a LOT of what I call misinformation or bioscience on it.

So warmer temp faster growth, more important to run live systems or increase the frequency of treatments for sterile (this is majorly important I can stress how much it increases reproductive rates of bacteria) sterile treatments don't stay in the water like live systems. H2o2 treatment is prob gone within hours if addition but it knock the population down very low then you treat every few days to keep knocking it back. So when the reproductive rates increase you should be doing evey 2 days at least.
 
AnimalHouse

AnimalHouse

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I use an ez cloner and your checklist looks ok other than temps. Like AM posted, let it get a little warm. I like to see mine running in the low to mid 80s and if it gets to high 80s I still leave it alone.
I've also run my cloner outside in the Summer in a shady spot on my deck. It gets into the 90s out there and still does great setting roots. I;ve even run it like that with multiple plant species in there and they all take root. Warmth is a good thing but temps in 70s stall everything out. There probably is a point where it can get too warm and make clone soup but I haven't found it yet.

I use RO water or bottled drinking water.
You don't need gel or the dome. You could mist them but I don't do that either.
When I have a mother plant, the cloner sits on the ground underneath and off to the side of the mother's canopy, 4-5' from the light and shaded by Mom's canopy. If I dont have a mother then I use a 2' two lamp t5ho about 3' above the cloner.
The only thing I use in my water is Kelp 4 Less Cloning Powder. It is microbial and I've had the same 4oz bag of the stuff for over 4 years and it's still potent. Only mixes in at like 1tsp per gallon so 4oz goes a very long way. I usually see roots at 6-7 days and ready to plant at 10 days. I don't use Clear Rez because I think it would kill the potency of the microbial powder.
I've used Clonex in the past but when I tried out the K4L powder the results were so good and so fast I never bought clonex again.
I don't think it's your main issue but I do like to work with a longer stem than what I see you have there with at least two nodes removed below the collar. Your stems look long enough but I'd slide the collars up an inch or two so most of the stem is below the collar getting drenched by the spray

Here's some pics of my cloner doing it's thing. You can see how I set the collar right below the first set of leaves. I also don't cut tips of leaves off to lessen shock and also get more natural nutes out of the lower leaves

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3 balls

3 balls

So water temp I say ideal would be 77f that means air temps much higher. The reason being is water temps is going to be a huge influence on the plant temps. I'd say 77f is pretty dam as close as it gets to speed metabolism as high as possible. This is an aeroponic cloner so you don't need to worry about higher water temps having a lower o2 level. They have access to as much o2 as they want.

Even at 80f they should be fine. With hydro I run 72-74f I find this to give the fastest growth rates and greatly faster than 68f. The difference is what you see in overall plant temps. The only drawback is while it increases plant metabolism it also increases bacteria metabolism and the reproductive rates increase immensely so you need to stay on top of it. It doesn't cause root rot like many say. I think I may make a write up on all this as there is a LOT of what I call misinformation or bioscience on it.

So warmer temp faster growth, more important to run live systems or increase the frequency of treatments for sterile (this is majorly important I can stress how much it increases reproductive rates of bacteria) sterile treatments don't stay in the water like live systems. H2o2 treatment is prob gone within hours if addition but it knock the population down very low then you treat every few days to keep knocking it back. So when the reproductive rates increase you should be doing evey 2 days at least.
You've got my vote for a write up! I know guys that will throw out their cloner after 2 runs, guys that insist bleach is the only way to go etc. etc. I have been adding physan20 as @Trustfall suggests but have read some compelling arguments for using slf100. There's just so damn many variables involved it's hard to know what specifically went right or wrong.
 
Buttercup726

Buttercup726

I use an ez cloner and your checklist looks ok other than temps. Like AM posted, let it get a little warm. I like to see mine running in the low to mid 80s and if it gets to high 80s I still leave it alone.
I've also run my cloner outside in the Summer in a shady spot on my deck. It gets into the 90s out there and still does great setting roots. I;ve even run it like that with multiple plant species in there and they all take root. Warmth is a good thing but temps in 70s stall everything out. There probably is a point where it can get too warm and make clone soup but I haven't found it yet.

I use RO water or bottled drinking water.
You don't need gel or the dome. You could mist them but I don't do that either.
When I have a mother plant, the cloner sits on the ground underneath and off to the side of the mother's canopy, 4-5' from the light and shaded by Mom's canopy. If I dont have a mother then I use a 2' two lamp t5ho about 3' above the cloner.
The only thing I use in my water is Kelp 4 Less Cloning Powder. It is microbial and I've had the same 4oz bag of the stuff for over 4 years and it's still potent. Only mixes in at like 1tsp per gallon so 4oz goes a very long way. I usually see roots at 6-7 days and ready to plant at 10 days. I don't use Clear Rez because I think it would kill the potency of the microbial powder.
I've used Clonex in the past but when I tried out the K4L powder the results were so good and so fast I never bought clonex again.
I don't think it's your main issue but I do like to work with a longer stem than what I see you have there with at least two nodes/removed below the collar. Your stems look long enough but I'd slide the collars up an inch or two so most of the stem is below the collar

Here's some pics of my cloner doing it's thing. You can see how I set the collar right below the first set of leaves. I also don't cut tips of leaves off to lessen shock and also get more natural nutes out of the lower leaves

View attachment 1130859

View attachment 1130860

View attachment 1130861

View attachment 1130862
Looks dope. Any experience using distilled water? I think that’s what leading to a delayed response. Ten days and not even a nub.
 
Aqua Man

Aqua Man

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You've got my vote for a write up! I know guys that will throw out their cloner after 2 runs, guys that insist bleach is the only way to go etc. etc. I have been adding physan20 as @Trustfall suggests but have read some compelling arguments for using slf100. There's just so damn many variables involved it's hard to know what specifically went right or wrong.
That's the thing bro... no wrong or right just different. Cooler temps you need less h2o2 less often etc... its all based on variables so there really isn't only 1 answer it all depends on the specific grow conditions.
 
Ponky

Ponky

I have had roots between 11 and 21 days. On various strains. It's normal. Minimal light. Tap water. Power heads and air stones. 77 + Temps. Never sooner. If I wanted earlier roots. Rapid rooters saved me a couple days I feel.
 
AnimalHouse

AnimalHouse

Supporter
Looks dope. Any experience using distilled water? I think that’s what leading to a delayed response. Ten days and not even a nub.

In the past yes I've used distilled water with no issues but these days I have a fairly baddass RO system so I use it. Before that I would flip flop between distilled, spring, and drinking water depending on what the store had and what was the least expensive.
Looking over your pics, if your castle was my castle, I would seat the cuttings down lower in the collars, put a seedling heat mat underneath the machine to raise it's temps, and since I don't have any clue about your LED lights, I would use an old school, reliable cloning floro light like t5ho or a daylight spectrum CFL. Even a t12 shoplight does very well for cloning. If that 6.1 is pH I may be inclined to raise it up between 6.5 and 7 if all the previous things have been addressed and they're still slow to take root.
 
Backyard_Boogie

Backyard_Boogie

No dome. I was advised with the ez cloner not use one. Humidity seems good.

just perplexed. All green. Standing up. Ten days no roots
I would not recommend using a dome. This EZ Cloner system does not need a dome and it is not recommended to spray the plants either. I just recently purchased this system because I got sick and tired of constantly having to spray my cuts. I get busy and if I forget they dry out which totally sucks. I just finished my first full cycle of cuts and I gotta say it worked out great! I filled the system with the water from my fresh water aquarium and then added the PH solution. I dipped the cuts in the hormone gel as instructed and let it run. After a week I opened up the system and there was nothing. The pics looked like yours no roots and I was very disappointed. I thought maybe I messed up by using the aquarium water instead of distilled water. I let the system run and honestly was so frustrated I just forgot about it. Well about 10 days later I opened up my small tent and the cuts were starting to yellow a bit. I opened up the top and Jesus!!! This is what I had waiting for me under the hood. So I guess the moral of the story is apparently the roots can really pack it on late in the game. It went from zero at day 7 to hero at the end. I think in your situation you just need some more time. Raise up your light like they said and wait it out. Some strains just take longer than others to push roots its possible you have a slower one. Don't give up on that EZcloner its actually insanely awesome. Once you get it dialed in your gonna LOVE it!

64323315823__415E9E3A-FEC6-4F9C-83E8-DE328E3DF67E.JPG
 
Buttercup726

Buttercup726

That’s dope. And encouraging. No sign of roots just yet. But still green and standing tall. Gonna wait it out another week
 
Metrix

Metrix

In my opinion aerophonic are the best way for cloners, i have 2 aerophonic station with each 94 cloners, you should always keep eye on pH, EC and Humidity thats the 3 important daily factors.

Organize for you second pH meter, never trust one unit and calibrate both all 14 days to be accurate as possible.

Humidity meter is a MUST.

How i keep my 188 cloners:
pH 5.7 till 5.9 max
EC 200 (0.2) / ppm 100
Humidity 85% no Dom
Light Samsung LM301H 4000K but only on 20% of the power and around 1m from the canopy.
The water pump should not run all the time and sprinkle the plants, my settings are 15min off 30sec on, there is enough humidity inside that when the first roots coming i change the timing to 3 hours off and 1 min on till i see bigger roots and the plants told me they are hungry than i switch to nonstop running.

I don't use the cloner system as you, its my own made but the technique are the same.

Be patient and don't disturb the plants all the time by checking if something is there, u will see on the leaves if the plants are fine or not

Once again
BE PATIENT
 
Bongholio

Bongholio

The best cloner in my opinion. And the best water(base water to be amended for other bubble buckets)
20201229_233018.jpg

And just regular fish tank florescent tubes are the best lights.
It also depends on how large and green the limb is. Holder more barkier brown, the longer it takes.
 
Metrix

Metrix

Forgot to mention water temperature by 21c till 23c and ofcourse air stone all the time running.

To H2O2 (Hydrogen Peroxide) be careful with that in best case work very clean with clean reservoir and low water temperature to avoid all the dangerous pathogens. Just adding with out any knowledge about H2O2 could be contra productive and in worst case kill your cloners. H2O2 will sure kill most of the pathogens and your beneficial bacteria's as well. Learn first how to use it before u add to water and after you need to refill with new beneficial bacteria's, but there is another products on the market that will help you more as HP on long run.
 
Aqua Man

Aqua Man

Staff member
Supporter
Forgot to mention water temperature by 21c till 23c and ofcourse air stone all the time running.

To H2O2 (Hydrogen Peroxide) be careful with that in best case work very clean with clean reservoir and low water temperature to avoid all the dangerous pathogens. Just adding with out any knowledge about H2O2 could be contra productive and in worst case kill your cloners. H2O2 will sure kill most of the pathogens and your beneficial bacteria's as well. Learn first how to use it before u add to water and after you need to refill with new beneficial bacteria's, but there is another products on the market that will help you more as HP on long run.
Never mix beneficial bacteria and sterilizing products. One or the other agree 100% Imo 21-23c is far to cold and water temp preventing infection is a myth that's been passed around far to long but many still think this is the case.
 
Metrix

Metrix

Never mix beneficial bacteria and sterilizing products. One or the other agree 100% Imo 21-23c is far to cold and water temp preventing infection is a myth that's been passed around far to long but many still think this is the case.
Yes you are right, that what i was trying to explain about HP, water temperature and bad pathogens are not directly coming by water temperature, in my area where is daily temperature over 30c for all year long the water temperature for hydro should be keep down, and the second reason is the oxygenation of water, under 25c more oxygen can be hold, over 25c less oxygen, but in fact i did some trials with water temp by 29c and all was fine. For beginners its better i think to keep the temp lower and get less chances of failure.

The trial was with outdoor NFT, 790 lettuce and basill, i run in same system just for fun some cannabis plants, they are absolutely fine and the temperature.

What water temperature are you suggesting?
 
Aqua Man

Aqua Man

Staff member
Supporter
Yes you are right, that what i was trying to explain about HP, water temperature and bad pathogens are not directly coming by water temperature, in my area where is daily temperature over 30c for all year long the water temperature for hydro should be keep down, and the second reason is the oxygenation of water, under 25c more oxygen can be hold, over 25c less oxygen, but in fact i did some trials with water temp by 29c and all was fine. For beginners its better i think to keep the temp lower and get less chances of failure.

The trial was with outdoor NFT, 790 lettuce and basill, i run in same system just for fun some cannabis plants, they are absolutely fine and the temperature.

What water temperature are you suggesting?
Aeroponics 75-77f ish

Aqua cloner and rdwc/dwc 72-74f ish

But as you said you really need to stay on top of pathogens in those temps because reproductive rates are much faster but so I'd plant growth.
 
Metrix

Metrix

Aeroponics 75-77f ish

Aqua cloner and rdwc/dwc 72-74f ish

But as you said you really need to stay on top of pathogens in those temps because reproductive rates are much faster but so I'd plant growth.
Well 75 till 77f are close to mine temp, i will try next time by 77f, i keep my temperature a bit lower because i live in Asia with extreme outside temperature all year long and all kinds of bacterias we have here, anything what you wisch is here hehe.

21c - 23c i mean in Celsius not Fahrenheit 69F till 73.4F and all the cloners doing fine with that
 
3 balls

3 balls

So water temp I say ideal would be 77f that means air temps much higher. The reason being is water temps is going to be a huge influence on the plant temps. I'd say 77f is pretty dam as close as it gets to speed metabolism as high as possible. This is an aeroponic cloner so you don't need to worry about higher water temps having a lower o2 level. They have access to as much o2 as they want.

Even at 80f they should be fine. With hydro I run 72-74f I find this to give the fastest growth rates and greatly faster than 68f. The difference is what you see in overall plant temps. The only drawback is while it increases plant metabolism it also increases bacteria metabolism and the reproductive rates increase immensely so you need to stay on top of it. It doesn't cause root rot like many say. I think I may make a write up on all this as there is a LOT of what I call misinformation or bioscience on it.

So warmer temp faster growth, more important to run live systems or increase the frequency of treatments for sterile (this is majorly important I can stress how much it increases reproductive rates of bacteria) sterile treatments don't stay in the water like live systems. H2o2 treatment is prob gone within hours if addition but it knock the population down very low then you treat every few days to keep knocking it back. So when the reproductive rates increase you should be doing evey 2 days at least.
What beneficials do you use/ recommend? Recharge is my go to but is not recommended in aeroponic, I think it would likely gum everything up.
 
Flexnerb

Flexnerb

You've got my vote for a write up! I know guys that will throw out their cloner after 2 runs, guys that insist bleach is the only way to go etc. etc. I have been adding physan20 as @Trustfall suggests but have read some compelling arguments for using slf100. There's just so damn many variables involved it's hard to know what specifically went right or wrong.
Thymol and citric acid kill viruses so maybe theres a mode of action there can be exploited by growers too....ki. l l. s "c..ov... i. d" in 1 minute or something like that.
 
Metrix

Metrix

I can recommend this page to all pro guys and beginners, from my opinion its one of the best explanation that i found in net


To Citric Acid, i will not recommend this too to someone that dosen't have any experience with pure Acids, Citric Acid in first case depends how strong it is in % 36% will drop the pH immediately down by just adding we say 2ml by 30L of water from pH 6.5 to pH 5 or less, by adding more goes down to pH and stay there for are while, luckily Citric Acid alone its not well stable in Hydro and in couple of hours goes up, the risk by beginners is more to harm themselves as fight the pathogens.

The best way against Pathogens (Bacteria, Viruses) keep your reservoir clean and the growing space, change reservoir on schedule 7 days, maintain the temperature, add living helpful bacteria's that eat the bad bacteria's.

I myself never use the commercial fancy nutrients and beneficial things, first i don't have access to them and second they are massively overhype and overpriced. It works for me since years.
 
Aqua Man

Aqua Man

Staff member
Supporter
I can recommend this page to all pro guys and beginners, from my opinion its one of the best explanation that i found in net


To Citric Acid, i will not recommend this too to someone that dosen't have any experience with pure Acids, Citric Acid in first case depends how strong it is in % 36% will drop the pH immediately down by just adding we say 2ml by 30L of water from pH 6.5 to pH 5 or less, by adding more goes down to pH and stay there for are while, luckily Citric Acid alone its not well stable in Hydro and in couple of hours goes up, the risk by beginners is more to harm themselves as fight the pathogens.

The best way against Pathogens (Bacteria, Viruses) keep your reservoir clean and the growing space, change reservoir on schedule 7 days, maintain the temperature, add living helpful bacteria's that eat the bad bacteria's.

I myself never use the commercial fancy nutrients and beneficial things, first i don't have access to them and second they are massively overhype and overpriced. It works for me since years.
Any acid depends on concentration AFTER dilution in the system. The concentration used does not matter but should be diluted before adding of over 5-10% to prevent burning the roots before it had a chance to fully dilute.

Citric acid is a very bad choice for hydroponics because of its chemical reaction with bicarbonate to produce co2. This makes it very poor for stability.

Any acid will lower PH some are more stable than others. It's not the type of acids that makes them damaging its the PH they created that burn you. Hydrochloric acid sounds dangerous and ppl think oh it's worse for plants and microbes but that's false... its all dependent in the concentration of any acid.

To add you don't know how much it drops the PH there is absolutely no way to calculate this without knowing the alkalinity of the water.... 1 drop of 5% Citric acid in a gal of RO will drop it drastically. In an alkaline water like very hard well water it won't do anything
 

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