Fan leaves, do I leave?

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cabinetmaker74

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Im still relatively new at this and learning every day, so I would like to know if it is better to remove the large fan leaves on the upper (top) part of the plant to allow for better light absorption to the bud sights or to leave them and let them do what nature intended. It's in week 2 of flowering cycle btw.
 
Fan leaves do i leave
Trash_2002

Trash_2002

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At day 21 flower remove the ones that are shading too much the lower bud sites, don't need to be too agressive, but a little defoliation is beneficial for sure.

Do it after watering/feeding them, they "recover/heal" faster that way.
 
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cabinetmaker74

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At day 21 flower remove the ones that are shading too much the lower bud sites, don't need to be too agressive, but a little defoliation is beneficial for sure.

Do it after watering/feeding them, they "recover/heal" faster that way.
Why day 21?
 
Mothman

Mothman

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Im still relatively new at this and learning every day, so I would like to know if it is better to remove the large fan leaves on the upper (top) part of the plant to allow for better light absorption to the bud sights or to leave them and let them do what nature intended. It's in week 2 of flowering cycle btw.
I’m told the younger fan leaves tend to be more photosynthetically efficient than older lower leaves. On my most recent grow I started taking big fans when the benefits of removing a solar panel (i.e., more light on two or more shaded buds and their respective supporting leaves) outweighed the loss of a photosynthesis engine. It was a judgment call and I had to sometimes remind myself that I was clipping the plants’ energy sources. When in doubt, wait a day or two and reconsider.

Clipping some lower fans is less limiting to the plant and tends to improve airflow within the canopy. Generally you’ll find that buds below the top two-thirds of the plant yield less desirable results than those nearer the top. I wouldn’t waste much plant energy on them.
 
Trash_2002

Trash_2002

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Why day 21?
Because usually is when the flower stretch is approaching its end and also when you are sure what to remove to make it right for the lower buds.

Some sativa's you could do week 4 too, but sativa's usually requires much less or even no defoliation.

You can also remove branches that are too low at day 21, known as lollipoping, to focus more energy for the branches closer to the lights.
 
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cabinetmaker74

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Because usually is when the flower stretch is approaching its end and also when you are sure what to remove to make it right for the lower buds.

Some sativa's you could do week 4 too, but sativa's usually requires much less or even no defoliation.

You can also remove branches that are too low at day 21, known as lollipoping, to focus more energy for the branches closer to the lights.
I have done the lollipoping and defoilation on most of my grows but never knew about the proper timing. Thank you, great stuff!
 
Harpua88

Harpua88

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For the most part......no. Don't remove any leaves unless you can come up with a darn good reason to. And "to let more light hit the plant" doesn't really qualify. Especially when you're talking new, upper growth. These leaves are more the production sites of the plant than they are "blocking the bud sites". Bottom, old fan leaves, sure. I'm looking at your plants, which look like they're mostly Indica......and they're very leafy, with tight nodes.....in your case, you've got a lot of leaves on top of each other. They look very healthy, and it looks like you have a good light. So each case being different, in this case you may want to trim the very lowest, oldest fan leaves, even the very lowest branches themselves, which may never get enough light to actually produce good buds. This will also increase air flow at the soil level and base of the stem........

It's a trade-off. And over time you'll get a feel for things and have good judgement about all of this. You need to ask yourself.......is this particular leaf more of a production site? Or is this leaf blocked and MORE in the way than it is a producer? If I cut this leaf, is it going to expose a good amount of new branch leaves? Or is it just "creating space"?. That's a judgement call. And if you're on the fence about the answer........don't cut. You can always come back to it another day and cut, but you can't glue it back.

One more little trick I like to use........instead of cutting a particular fan leaf.......cut only the long middle leaf blade. That's a happy medium, where you get to open up some space, but leave the rest of the leaf to keep producing.

You also need to ask yourself where you are in the life cycle. Are you looking to veg for another 2 weeks before you flip to flowering? If so, you have time for new leaves to grow and fill in, more time for the plant to keep filling out. If you're looking to flower over the next few days.......you don't have that kind of revovery time and you should be very stingy about saving leaves.
 
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Harpua88

Harpua88

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Also, is this 1 plant or 2? You say you're 2 weeks into flowering so you're definitely at the "stingy" stage. These are the leaves that will produce and carry you through to harvest. For the most part, the time for pruning fan leaves for new leaf growth has passed.
 
Bilber

Bilber

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Lollipop and defoliation reduces very marginally the yield tho, BUT you "gain" that back n quality!!!
I agree with pretty much everything that has been mentioned above......

I'm no expert in any sense, even common......Ha........

My veg area is kinda small, so I've gotta control them.........my flowering area, ( veg area till flower )

Defoliating is a great experimental way to learn......but usually, just gently opening up the canopy by lightly tying the branches outward.....

Anything dead, or dying.......gone......

I personally like heavy defoliating 1ish week before flip......heavy.....

There may be a lower yield, but I see larger gains......it definitely depends on veg time, and all growing aspects......

For sure, your on the last of the time-frame for defoliating.......

Tie it back a touch to open the canopy........looks like your light will cover what you open.............gently.........

P.S. if your bored -

1. Are you growing from seed or clones?
2. How old are your plants?
3. How tall are your plants?
4. What type of hydro system are you using?
5. What brand/type of nutrients are you using?
6. What is the Ph of your nutrient solution?
7. What is the PPM/EC of your tap water?
8. What is the PPM/EC of your nutrient solution?
9. What is the temperature of your nutrient solution?
10. Does your PPM/EC show a rise or fall when you do your daily PPM check?
11. Does your pH show a rise or fall when you do your daily check?
12. Do you foliar feed or spray your plants with anything?
13. What kind of lights do you use and how many watts combined? (HPS, MH, fluorescent, halogen, incandescent "plant lights")
14. How close are your lights to the plants?
15. What size is your grow space in square feet?
16. What is the temperature and humidity in your grow space?
17. Have you noticed any insect activity in your grow space?
18. How much experience do you have growing?

Hope this helps.....I'm watching.....
 
Harpua88

Harpua88

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I definitely agree with Bilber about tying down, so that the tops are horizontal. There are plant bending clips too but the stems need to be very malleable.......tying the tops down lets the side branches get more light, without having to take leaves off. It also brings the top canopy down, which prevents light burn, or maybe allows you to turn the light to more power without having to raise it. Finally, tying plants down/horizontal gives a fresh perspective for any defoliating.......even though I very much lean away from cutting, especially into flowering, tying down allows you to see things in a new light, no pun intended.......now you can really see which old, bottom leaves and tiny bottom branches can be trimmed off, or how cutting only the middle blade of a fan leaf can open things up to more, fresh growth.

The more veg time is left on the clock, the more these techniques pay off. It's one thing to bend/tie down, and prune a little. It's another to train plants to grow into the kind of shapes, with more branching, that truly allows them to fill in, and maximize space with a bunch of nice size buds.
 
Mikedin

Mikedin

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I strip the inner part of each stem on bushy plants, only leave the top 6-8” of foliage on each branch protruding out, everything inside will be shaded and hinder airflow through the plant, the plant should look near identical outside but should be near empty inside, I’ll take some pics later too dirty form the garden to go in the tent,

I leave pretty much all healthy fan leaves, try tucking them u til the node is taller than the leaf and it won’t be an issue and you’ll still have those leaves to feed the plant later down the road

Good clone opportunities on some of those inside nodes if they are strong enough 😝
 
Mothman

Mothman

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I strip the inner part of each stem on bushy plants, only leave the top 6-8” of foliage on each branch protruding out, everything inside will be shaded and hinder airflow through the plant, the plant should look near identical outside but should be near empty inside, I’ll take some pics later too dirty form the garden to go in the tent,

I leave pretty much all healthy fan leaves, try tucking them u til the node is taller than the leaf and it won’t be an issue and you’ll still have those leaves to feed the plant later down the road

Good clone opportunities on some of those inside nodes if they are strong enough 😝
Agree with @Mikedin on tucking instead of snipping when practical.

Also, I found that with tightly placed nodes, my leaves were laminating against each other, which meant water vapor condensed and collected between both leaves. In that situation, no question, somebody’s gettin cut today!
 
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Chalice5279

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I'm a beginner and posed the exact question a couple weeks ago. I prune / defoliate my 2 plants every few days. Nothing crazy, but I definitely remove some leaves. These two photos were taken 15 days apart. Maybe if I didn't remove any leaves they'd be doing better, hard to know.
 
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Harpua88

Harpua88

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I'm a beginner and posed the exact question a couple weeks ago. I prune / defoliate my 2 plants every few days. Nothing crazy, but I definitely remove some leaves. These two photos were taken 15 days apart. Maybe if I didn't remove any leaves they'd be doing better, hard to know.
They look good. You might lean more towards pruning, but you're making good cutting decisions. I would decrease cutting into flowering because new leaf growth is decreasing.......but your plants look good.
 
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cabinetmaker74

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Also, is this 1 plant or 2? You say you're 2 weeks into flowering so you're definitely at the "stingy" stage. These are the leaves that will produce and carry you through to harvest. For the most part, the time for pruning fan leaves for new leaf growth has passed.
It is one plant and today I removed a huge fan leaf on the top part of the plant because it was laying right on top of about 5 buds and I thought that the buds really needed it to be gone. Now I'm not sure that I did the right thing and the buds have got this far being shaded. I think that I'll just leave it be from here on out and let nature do it's thing.
 
C

cabinetmaker74

28
13
It is one plant and today I removed a huge fan leaf on the top part of the plant because it was laying right on top of about 5 buds and I thought that the buds really needed it to be gone. Now I'm not sure that I did the right thing and the buds have got this far being shaded. I think that I'll just leave it be from here on out and let nature do it's thing.
Leave it be as far as removing leaves that is. I'll definitely try opening it up some by tying down a little.
 
Harpua88

Harpua88

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It is one plant and today I removed a huge fan leaf on the top part of the plant because it was laying right on top of about 5 buds and I thought that the buds really needed it to be gone. Now I'm not sure that I did the right thing and the buds have got this far being shaded. I think that I'll just leave it be from here on out and let nature do it's thing.
Maybe, maybe not. Over many grows you'll get that feel for what's better........it's not about comparing a cut to 2 weeks later, of course buds are going to develop, time has passed. It's about comparing cutting to not cutting (a certain leaf). Would the development have been better if you didn't cut? Tucking is great, it's another little trick that's like cheating. You want to open up branches/buds to more light? Tuck the fan leaves down/in/under a branch and expose that branch........and you've taken nothing away from the plant's energy factories. All you've done is moved it. Most of the time they find a way to pop back up anyway. But you can get a few days of free non-pruning pruning.
 
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