Farmer in need of help, What kind of deficiency is this?

[tattoojim]

are you running r/o water? sorry if i missed it..

 

[Seamaiden]

My PH was off about 2 weeks ago, I got it calibrated so it's accurate again for now. I keep my PH between 5.5-6.2. I'm about to do a rez change on them right now hoping they stop progressing w/ the deficiencies, I don't want to guess wrong and make the problems worsen. If it's a magnesium deficiency would I need to foliar to get it back in there(is it a mobile nutrient?)? here's some more pics, any help would be greatly appreciated.

Those pix look like a N-, due to the interveinal chlorosis and reddened petioles. P could also be off (deficiency OR uptake problem, or out of balance).

Mg- often starts off as leaf margin yellowing more than interveinal yellowing. Once the yellowing takes up more of the leaf (due to Mg-) it tends to be a more advanced stage.

Mg is a mobile element (Ca is immobile), and can be foliared for a quick fix and if it does change what you're observing, then I would say it's the most likely culprit.

Now, I've never done a straight (liquid) hydro grow, only passive hydro, coco coir and perlite hempies along with my organic soils, but! If it were my grow, I'd drop that pH range and keep it solidly in the 5s.

 

[Capulator]

I don't use- and would not recommend- any coated/delay release ferts in a hydro system. That's not the right application. That stuff belongs in soil.

If that's what you're using, then straight nitro and calcium deficieny might be what you're looking at. Gotta foliar calcium, it's immobile.

I read somewhere here that you have to treat the coated shit with something before adding it to the res to break the shells off. But if you are dissolving it in hot water, it shouldnt be an issue. Hmmmm.

ARE YOU USING RO WATER?
ARE YOU USING ANY MOST or STEM?

Switch to tap water if you dont have MOST and are using RO.

 

[Capulator]

Those pix look like a N-, due to the interveinal chlorosis and reddened petioles. P could also be off (deficiency OR uptake problem, or out of balance).

Mg- often starts off as leaf margin yellowing more than interveinal yellowing. Once the yellowing takes up more of the leaf (due to Mg-) it tends to be a more advanced stage.

Mg is a mobile element (Ca is immobile), and can be foliared for a quick fix and if it does change what you're observing, then I would say it's the most likely culprit.

Now, I've never done a straight (liquid) hydro grow, only passive hydro, coco coir and perlite hempies along with my organic soils, but! If it were my grow, I'd drop that pH range and keep it solidly in the 5s.

Both the mobility of Mg and Ca is low.

 

[Aerojoe]

are you running r/o water? sorry if i missed it..

I read somewhere here that you have to treat the coated shit with something before adding it to the res to break the shells off. But if you are dissolving it in hot water, it shouldnt be an issue. Hmmmm.

ARE YOU USING RO WATER?
ARE YOU USING ANY MOST or STEM?

Switch to tap water if you dont have MOST and are using RO.

Thanks for all the help fellow farmers, I greatly appreciate it. I'm currently using RO water, I'm going to just stop using the cal nitrate w/ the coatings. I'm thinking it's possible that even though they dissolve into the water the same way as the other cal nitrate, it might still be acting as a slow release or it's bonding w/ other nutrients? I don't currently have any micro nutes added to the mix, what's STEM? I think I'll start using a 1/2 tapwater 1/2 ro for the time being. Is the jack's combo developed for tap water?

 

[nebulius]

I don't currently have any micro nutes added to the mix, what's STEM?

No micro nutes?? So you're just adding N-P-K? I'm not familiar with Jacks or Peters but if your mix doesn't have micro nutes added, you must add that.
No micro nutes will definitely cause deficiencies.

 

[Aerojoe]

No micro nutes?? So you're just adding N-P-K? I'm not familiar with Jacks or Peters but if your mix doesn't have micro nutes added, you must add that.
No micro nutes will definitely cause deficiencies.

I believe that the jack's should have some micros in the mix, but cap add's some more specifically for the iron. I could be wrong though.

 

[Capulator]

Thanks for all the help fellow farmers, I greatly appreciate it. I'm currently using RO water, I'm going to just stop using the cal nitrate w/ the coatings. I'm thinking it's possible that even though they dissolve into the water the same way as the other cal nitrate, it might still be acting as a slow release or it's bonding w/ other nutrients? I don't currently have any micro nutes added to the mix, what's STEM? I think I'll start using a 1/2 tapwater 1/2 ro for the time being. Is the jack's combo developed for tap water?

jacks is developed for tap. If using RO they recommend MOST. Jacks has micros, but not enough IMHO.

No micro nutes?? So you're just adding N-P-K? I'm not familiar with Jacks or Peters but if your mix doesn't have micro nutes added, you must add that.
No micro nutes will definitely cause deficiencies.

No cal mag needed if using Calcium nitrate and epsom salt.

 

[tattoojim]

Thanks for all the help fellow farmers, I greatly appreciate it. I'm currently using RO water, I'm going to just stop using the cal nitrate w/ the coatings. I'm thinking it's possible that even though they dissolve into the water the same way as the other cal nitrate, it might still be acting as a slow release or it's bonding w/ other nutrients? I don't currently have any micro nutes added to the mix, what's STEM? I think I'll start using a 1/2 tapwater 1/2 ro for the time being. Is the jack's combo developed for tap water?

r/o did nothing but cause me problems bro,,,i been told thats where its at tho...but i can do better with tap

 

[Aerojoe]

r/o did nothing but cause me problems bro,,,i been told thats where its at tho...but i can do better with tap

Hey TJ, I'm definitely going to try it, what ec is your tap water? do you bubble it ahead of time or just mix nutes in it off the bat?

 

[jyip]

Since you're about to flush and refill anyway, maybe now is the time to re-examine how you mix your nutes into the water you're using. Do you premix these nutrients separately? Do you add them to yoursystem gradually? If not, you could be looking at a nutrient lockout situation- which can really end up being a tail-chaser.

Make sure you keep high concentrations of any nute containing calcium apart from any high concnetrations of sulphur or magnesium.

What I do is dissolve my Jacks and epsom in one 5 gallon pail, with a gallon of warm water first. Once it's dissolved, I fill the bucket up with cold water. I do the same in a separate bucket with my calcium nitrate. I then add these, slowly, one at a time, to my reservoir or system, mixing thoroughly at all times during the process.

Be sure you also have your other environmental conditions under control, such as rh and temps. I think 70 is a bit cool for good growth. Your current rh is okay for the low temps, but if you raise temps to 75-80 to encourage faster growth, you will want to raise rh to around 60-65%.

You never mentioned how much light you're under? Are you in flower or still in veg?

ttstik,
every thread i peek has ya givin topnotch advice, you hava very well-rounded grow platform of knowledge brother,,,,


aeroJOE.....i hava thread in infirmary too "what do ya think it is" or something like that,,,i tellin ya cuz im at day 11 of 12/12 w/a 1k hps ,but ebb n flo w/rez not topdrip, and hydroton,,, very similiar stuff i went thru, i dont hav pics, but worth the read, end result,,, i think i was stretching between rez changes too long, i genrally try to change once i top off w/20 gal tapwater, prolly 10-14 days, but think plts suffer alittle till new rez each time,,, i was running nutes aliil less than you .8-.10EC , 75 f, 45-65rh, rez 72f,canna aqua nutes,

what i did to correct mine....rez change bumpin nutes upto 1.-1.2EC, foliar fed with bills excelent fertilizer spray n gro 3 way mix 2 nites ina row, and shortly after they perked up and a week later took off....

question for ya aerojoe, howmare they doin drinking water?? when mine slowed down they stopped drinking pretty much, they went from a high of 20 gallons added in 30 hour period to jus jus 6 gal in a few days,,but now are sucking water down again, about a 1 or 1 1/2 gal per plt daily,,, my thoughts r ur on target , but need to change ur rez a lil sooner and wont see this happen,, IMO,,,, and been wrong too many times,,,but all ur other stuff seems on n correct

good luck, but read my thread in infirmary, it wil prolly help ya cuz we have very similiar setip, my room is semi sealed too, drawing fresh air in n thru n out light hood an out room
and same hps n ebb n flo too

 

[jyip]

jus hang in there and make adjust one thing at a time and watch, ur prolly close to where ya need to be, i am asuming u got exp and keep a peek on ur grow closely and all,,,, i went to the simpliest shit IMO to use and have been pretty good since, not fimiliar w/jacks, been using canna for a few years,and use a foliar to supplement/fix def's and shit

*************capulator, *****************************

cap,
every time i see apost from ya i gotta say hasselhoff,and the finger up goin shheeesh cracks me the fuck up man!

 

[TrichromeFan]

So, I noticed that you are recirculating your nutes. I tried that with the same mix of Jack's that I normally use, and had crappy, deficient results. Just my experience. I also make sure that I mix the calcium nitrate very last into my rez. First ingredient is Zone at 1-1.5ml per gal. I do use RO. I feed at 1.5EC for veg and up to 1.9 in flower. PH 5.7-6.4 Hope that helps.

-TF

 

[tattoojim]

Hey TJ, I'm definitely going to try it, what ec is your tap water? do you bubble it ahead of time or just mix nutes in it off the bat?

aj...hey bro i do bubble my water,and holds at about 250 ppms...
i seemed to loose ph stability with r/o...1 day and ph was fine next day it would clime

 

[ttystikk]

aj...hey bro i do bubble my water,and holds at about 250 ppms...
i seemed to loose ph stability with r/o...1 day and ph was fine next day it would clime

The pH climbing from one day to the next is how you know your girls are liking the food you gave 'em. Just add a touch of pH down once the climb takes them out of your target pH zone, say higher than 6.2. Tapwater has calcium in it which helps buffer pH. When you use RO and add cal-mag or epsom salts, you're esentially doing the same thing. The difference is that with RO, you walways know exactly what's in your nutrient mix. For those whose water changes seasonally or after heavy rainfall (and there are plenty of us out there!), RO makes more sense for consistent results.

 

[Capulator]

update?

 

[Aerojoe]

update?

Hey cap/farmers, thanks for all the help. I think things are looking better atm, at least as far as the new growth goes. The leaves that looked deficient in nitro/phos and mgso4 don't seem to be progressing w/ the deficiencies, but haven't gone away either. I know CaMg isn't supposed to fix what's already deficient. Which deficiencies visually fix themselves when corrected?(mobile ones? which? to what degree?) The new growth is coming out healthier again, leaves have more fingers and aren't gnarled so much. Some nugs are starting to form, hope they show that they like my new regimen. I'll post some pics later when I get the chance.

 

[Aerojoe]

So, I noticed that you are recirculating your nutes. I tried that with the same mix of Jack's that I normally use, and had crappy, deficient results. Just my experience. I also make sure that I mix the calcium nitrate very last into my rez. First ingredient is Zone at 1-1.5ml per gal. I do use RO. I feed at 1.5EC for veg and up to 1.9 in flower. PH 5.7-6.4 Hope that helps.

-TF

I wonder if the deficiencies showed up due to EC, as I've been running at around 1-1.4 ec. I'm used to running most nutes that I'm not familiar with at lower ec's. I think the normal mix ratio for jack's isn't made for recirculating systems, we need to come up w/ a different nute ratio for recirculating systems.

 

[ttystikk]

I wonder if the deficiencies showed up due to EC, as I've been running at around 1-1.4 ec. I'm used to running most nutes that I'm not familiar with at lower ec's. I think the normal mix ratio for jack's isn't made for recirculating systems, we need to come up w/ a different nute ratio for recirculating systems.

I ran Jacks in RDWC and I wasn't happy with my results. In my case, I kept having too many problems of all different sorts, things just never settled down- therefore, I'm not certain Jacks is to blame, either. That said, I think Jacks is made more for DTW approaches and that Cap is right about needing to add micros in recirc. systems.

 

[Aerojoe]

I ran Jacks in RDWC and I wasn't happy with my results. In my case, I kept having too many problems of all different sorts, things just never settled down- therefore, I'm not certain Jacks is to blame, either. That said, I think Jacks is made more for DTW approaches and that Cap is right about needing to add micros in recirc. systems.

Did you finish up that run w/ jacks ttystikk? just bunch of deficiency problems similar to mine? are you still running RDWC? w/ jacks? I'm not positive it's the micros causing the probs but I think I should definitely get some micros to make sure, I just wish I could find it locally rather than order and pay shipping. I want to change my numbers to be closer to HG aquaflakes to see if it will work out better in a RDWC.