(Fatman's) DIY nutrient mixing guide

[skwirlgirl]

mixing own nutes. great idea cheep (after you get all the stuff) and easy to perfect a mix. Too bad I dont do it that way. I wish I could right away.. For one thing I'm broke so it's GH for me. I kinda took the whole summer off and surfed it away with minimal growing..no dinero but plenty of funero'
However I've gotten real close to Fatmans' NPKCMg #s using my own top sekret recipe using ONLY GH nutes so I'm not stressing the dry mix as of late. I run a mix real close to his Drain to Waste recipe. I'm on a 4 day cycle so I can go real low with the ppms and buffers

 

[Crysmatic]

his DECADES of experience with hydroponics. Together we have near 50 years playing with this water game. I'm a dope compared to him but I realize that and soak it up whenever I get a chance...humbled is the word

would you ask fatman if he recommends different bloom nutes for mediumless and soiless hydro? specifically undercurrent systems vs ebb & flow vs promix/sunshine mix.

fatman says he uses 2.8-1-4.4, while many commercial nutes are 2-2-5 (or thereabouts) or even 1-5-4. those are drastically different ratios. what do you say to someone who swears by the pk spike? or that excess nitrogen delays flowering?

 

[skwirlgirl]

I'm all about K but not so much P. P is overated imho. K on the other hand shows up more in late flowering tissues samples. All the tissue samples fatman has showed me have a definite spike in K...and only a small increase in P (still very important don't get me wrong)

N..I'm also all about N. Especially during the stretch. I don't cut back at all. I'll slowly back it down as the stretch finishes up.. just a bit as I increase K. P increases too but only slightly over veg.

If I put both my peak Veg and Flower mixes side by side they're pretty close. I could do a full run on either and probably do fine.

One big dif' is I start to slowly add Epsom salts about a month into flowering. More Mg is needed and the sulfur adds tons of flavor.

I also slowly replace my MICRO with HARDWATER MICRO to bring the Ca down. I'll start the whole deal with 50/50 Micro to Hardwater Micro ratio and in the end it will be somewhere around 80/20

Back to N.. N is always there and I won't cut it in half or anything drastic like that. I totally believe if the plant is goin bonkers/bananas (like hydro should) they need a ton of N. I only run 2 6 packs of 8 gallon UC's so I don't play the rush to flower game. I demand/need big plants.No phosphoload or B master...nope. That's playin with fire black magic wack haha. Seriously the plant will flower on it's own if you give it balanced nutes in the proper amounts. Less stress too if you don't play with the photoperiod IMHO..

 

[squarepusher]

speaking of flavor, does anyone know any supplements that could help add:

essential oils, aromatics, terpenoids, phenols and other potency factors
(such as big Bud by AN advertises).

Is it aminos or vitamins that can help this? Skwirlgirl, do you have a contact info for Fatman currently? would like to contact him for a few questions if he doesn't mind,

 

[skwirlgirl]

I'll relay any questions you have. His email is a government secret or something like that:pimp: and I'm in no position to give it out.

Think the questions out completely though and google them whatever. Be specific and I'm sure he'll play nice.

..I don't need to remind you how he can be if you ask him a 'dumb' question. It might sound reasonable to the ordinary joe but..

It's late now but I'll pose the flavor question to him tommorow

 

[PuFFnNugg]

I've been doing the same mixing 3 part to meet desired ratios. What a headache right, guessing thats why its topsecret, lol.

-Do you Spike your K anymore than Fat's 235-240 N-K ratio posted in this thread?

-Curious do you bring your N up at all when you begin bringing you P-K up.?

I would like to use AN Big Bud (only cuz I can't reach 0-1-3) and a little Kool Bloom to adjust my P-K throughout.
Two part question.

-The stress agent is just myth? I will need to use these even in Veg.

-Will all the Ammonium in Kool Bloom powder kill beneficials? It's first two ingredients.

FLAVOR ENHANCER
I'm excited to hear what Fat has to say on this subject. I have for the most part grown straight water w/ chlorine. I now have Chloramine n use RO again. But my new found interest in everything but salts, came from a friend of a friend who is breeder. I'm not going to even post thc% because I didn't believe it either, and percentages this high are just rumored. But he uses supplements and organics, and that is the only reason I want to explore again.

I posted that comment in wrong forum, way out of context. I was actually defending Fat's position. Just because someone in Rockwool has success with Bene's doesn't mean Fat's is wrong because he doesn't need them. Someone had said something about no Myco cuz it clogged sprayers...whoops

 

[MeJuana]

I had suggested to Daniel Fernandez by email to add a "donate" button for people like me who feel compelled to donate. It is there now if you look to the upper left (right under the Download for Hydrobuddy) if anyone else ever was looking for that.

P.S. I have no idea if he added that button from the email I sent or his response, cuz I lost that email address password.. (Stoner)

 

[Crysmatic]

house & garden

i checked out the h&g line up today. for my curiosity i will run numbers soon. they don't have a guaranteed analysis, and only give NPK. it's expensive shit! i'll post recipes if anyone requests it.

can somebody please list roots excelurator's guaranteed analysis and ingredients?

 

[skwirlgirl]

i checked out the h&g line up today. for my curiosity i will run numbers soon. they don't have a guaranteed analysis, and only give NPK. it's expensive shit! i'll post recipes if anyone requests it.

can somebody please list roots excelurator's guaranteed analysis and ingredients?

Fatmans' take on Roots Excellerator>


Contains:Micro nutrients, hydro bacteria, proteins, Amino acids, Hyminic acids 9% and 100% natural ingredients. IE composted cow manure extracts. It is Canna Cannazym without the vitamins as added by Canna. H&G Roots Excelurator .25L - NUTRIENT & PH - NU-MEHG-RE

Canna Cannazym:

"Cellulase is an enzyme complex which breaks down cellulose to beta-glucose. It is produced mainly by symbiotic bacteria in the ruminating chambers of herbivores."

The enzymmes are called cellulase and a full explanation of them are given at this link.
AE - Enzymes - Catalase

The cellulase enzymes are presently being widely tested for turning twitch grass into ethanol so as to replace the use of corn for producing etahnol. The use of a food product to produce a partial replacement for gasoline has raised the cost of feed corn which hasj ust raised the cost of food that is fed corn, ie. pork, beef, chicken and raised the cost of cereals etc. made with corn.

Hate to burst any bubbles but it is just bovine manure compost extract. The new "in thing." Bovines (cows) are ruminant aninals have multiple stomachs, In one of those stomach live anaerobic bacteria and the enzymes they create. These enzymes allow for efficienct conversion of cellulose fibers to sugars. IE grass to sugars, roots to sugars.

Like I have said before, they would sell mj growers donkey urine as a special mj supplement if they could get a steady large source of the urine.

No it has no place in inert hydro using chemical nutrients. With chemical nutes you run a disinfected system or as near as possible to sterile environment. You kill the bacteria and protozoa with chlorine or hydrogen peroxide. You do not supply bacteria and enzymes to the system. These are used in organic systems where bacteria and enzymes are need to convert organic nutes into usable forms (mainly ammonia to nitrate). As you can not kill off those bacteria and enzymes you can not prevent root rot by killing the bacteria so you use bacteria to convert the dead roots to sugar rather than rotting and then having bacteria slowly convert them to ammonia, then mitrite and then nitrate.

 

[ehole]

crysmatic go to oregon california or washington fertilizer website... they have to disclose to be able to be sold out there

 

[skwirlgirl]

Fatmans response to the question:

Does the Ammonium in Kool Bloom kill Beneficials?>

"Ammonium in excess can create gaseous ammonia which kills beneficials as well as roots. Consider Nitrogen has 5 valence electrons. Gaseous Nitrogen is NH4 which is unstable. Ammonnium in water is (NH4OH) is a stable compound of ammonia in water. Ammonium in soil and water logged conditions tend to form gaseous ammonia (NH3) which kills beneficials and burns roots."

 

[PuFFnNugg]

I could be wrong but I think they only have to disclose the hazardous ingredients. I know I clicked a link for the washington fertilizer deal and it didn't have everything listed. At least not for what I looked up.

Good stuff, thanks for the info Skwirl, I'm still interested to see what he says bout flavor enhancement.

 

[squarepusher]

NPK aren't really hazardous, or calcium/sulphpur etc... idk

 

[skwirlgirl]

I could be wrong but I think they only have to disclose the hazardous ingredients. I know I clicked a link for the washington fertilizer deal and it didn't have everything listed. At least not for what I looked up.

Good stuff, thanks for the info Skwirl, I'm still interested to see what he says bout flavor enhancement.

I asked him about that and mentioned the AN products. That was it...He snapped and went into an AN tirade and I can't repeat what he said...so I'm pretty sure he thinks it's bs

 

[Crysmatic]

House & Garden

h&g is NOT on the washington site :( according to h&g's feed chart, running a full regimen in a 50 usgal res for 8 weeks, it will cost $643 with shooting powder, $450 without. so that's basically per 1000w light, 4x4 table.

like skwirlgirl said, roots excelurator isn't suitable for hydro. drip clean and bud xl are so weak they can be combined with aqua flakes, or even ignored imo. i don't even need top booster's density. between 1.1 and a generous 1.2 g/ml, it only changes 5 ppm (nothing i'd worry about).

the base fertilizer through the entire duration is 4.6-4.1-10.1 (159-59-283 week 6), becoming 4.7-7.4-12.9 (159-109-362) in week 5. it's basically 2-2-5, plus some MKP in week 5.

shooting powder is just 65 g of 0-39-25, or about 75% pure MKP. it adds 0-111-139 ppm!! total ppm in week 6-8 with shooting powder is ~82-145-280, or 4.8-19.7-20 (lucas with 40% less N, close to running overdrive or botanicare ripe alone).

 

[PuFFnNugg]

Could someone please run AN Big Bud powder through the Fert Calculator for me, I don't have excel. Ingredients in order Potassium Sulphate, Potassium Nitrate, Monopotassium Phosphate.

Guaranteed Analysis- 1-17-38 10S

I didn't realize how expensive it is, what a crock. If you can run that through the copy nutes option for me, that would be awesome

Is anyone else here trying to use store bought to achieve custom ratios like Skwirl was saying? I have a lot of data on GH and Botanicare lines that I could post. Good visual aid. Also have some ratios that are good starting points I could post.

 

[MeJuana]

At work so can't load that in the calculator for you either..

I use commercial nutrients and by adding some additional salts I get close the the bloom ratios I want. Like this, not exactly.. Dyna-Gro Grow = 15ml per gallons, CNS17 bloom, 10 ml per gallons, 35 grams of Cal Nitrate, some MG and PK.. Little Humbuldt Snow Storm and Honey.. etc

P.S. I am just trying to use all this junk I bought up, it was a lot of cash..

 

[PuFFnNugg]

Nice I'm gonna do a CNS hydro Grow base n use GH micro n hardwater micro to adjust my N-CA. Then looking like gonna mix something similar to Big Bud to adjust P-K. Mag sulfate n done. I figured out some forumals for GH and PB pro before settled on this. If anyone is looking to do something similare let me know I'll send you that info.

Same here on using it up, plus I'm out o time and don't wanna be stressed trying to perfect mix.

I found this place looking for salts, they seem to have a good selection of products and sizes

 

[kuz]

I have enough floranova and pureblendpro to last a while, so I finally found a bag of muriate of potash at the garden center to get potassium up. I would have used potassium sulphate if I could have found it, not sure why or when one would be preferable.

 

[REGISTRD]

Could someone please run AN Big Bud powder through the Fert Calculator for me, I don't have excel. Ingredients in order Potassium Sulphate, Potassium Nitrate, Monopotassium Phosphate.

Guaranteed Analysis- 1-17-38 10S

I didn't realize how expensive it is, what a crock. If you can run that through the copy nutes option for me, that would be awesome

Is anyone else here trying to use store bought to achieve custom ratios like Skwirl was saying? I have a lot of data on GH and Botanicare lines that I could post. Good visual aid. Also have some ratios that are good starting points I could post.

Wow. this post has me thrown..lol..Maybe im taking it the wrong way so please just answer me...
Im going to really try not to be a Dick but....
1. this question been answered right here in this thread so shows you didnt read the whole thread.. have you red it?
2. why do you need excel to run the calc? its a window app.
3. Reviewing alot of your posts you sound like you Kind of know what your talking about then you throw out this post..
............ what skwyrgrl is talking about is running your own secret formulation of ppm values that are related to the ratios given here.. I could take all AN connsiour and run the same schedule with GH.. do u understand that...
you do know what the PH spreadsheet is right?

CRYS...
Thats awesome work...Thanks for the taking the time to input it all and get us those numbers we all seem to see shit blowing up with. lol...
Just downloaded the new .95 hydrobuddy probably going to use the new salt tab/function add in all my commercial stuff try to completly get away from the spreadsheet.. Have you done somethign similiar or you still going back/forth?