(Fatman's) DIY nutrient mixing guide

Crysmatic · Oct 5, 2010

Dutch Master Advance

Dutch Master Advance
4-3-10-2-1 1% sulfur
1.06 g/L, 5 ml/L each of A and B
424-139-616-212-106 106 ppm sulfur
10L 100:1 stock solution
Fe 4.24
B 0.64
Mn 0.64
Zn 0.42
Cu 0.21
Mo 0.21

KNO3 mass = 1143 g
Ca(NO3)2_yara mass = 1714 g
FeEDDHA

MgSO4 mass = 811 g
KH2PO4 mass = 609 g
Boric acid 3.66 g
Mn sulfate 1.97 g
Zinc sulfate 1.847 g
Copper sulfate 0.83 g
Sodium Molybdate 0.53 g

actual ppm: 407/17-139-616-326-106. i let calcium go high to keep the salts simple. sulfur is at 140 ppm.

I would have taken their premium 'nutrient', but they don't display part B's label.

MeJuana · Oct 5, 2010

Cysmatic I saved the AN site all the labels I could find all 3 sites in my research, now I will keep them case they change again. Thanks for posting Dutch M Adv stuff I have used it personally and it is good.

Crysmatic · Oct 5, 2010

Dutch Master Gold One

It seems a lot of people run dutch master gold nutrient (2-part) in their under currents. it's the closest commercial fert to fatman's bloom formula (2.8-1-4.4)

i would appreciate someone listing the guaranteed analysis for DM Gold Nutrient part A and B so that i can run numbers.

Gold One
5 ml/L aggressive
2-1-3: 106-23-132 (0.0006% NH4)
Ca 0.8% 42.4
Mg 0.4% 21.2
S 0.09% 4.8
Fe 0.02% 1.06
B 0.003% 0.16
Mn 0.004% 0.21
Zn 0.003% 0.16
Cu 0.001% 0.05
Mo 0.001% 0.05

ingredients: KNO3, Ca(NO3)2, Mg(NO3)2, MAP, H3PO4, MKP, K2SO4, boric acid, copper edta, iron edta, manganese edta, zinc edta, sodium molybdate

Part A
Mg(NO3)2 mass = 223.6 g
KNO3 mass = 266.5 g
Ca(NO3)2 mass = 280.2 g
FeEDDHA mass = 17.67 g

Part B
KH2PO4 mass = 101.5 g
ZnSO4 mass = 0.704 g
MnSO4 mass = 0.65 g
CuSO4 mass = 0.2 g
H3BO3 mass = 0.92 g
Na2MoO4 mass = 0.126 g

10L 100:1 stock solution

the only difference is calcium is 53 ppm, and it doesn't use any MAP or phosphoric acid. i'd guess the super low calcium is the reason for the low micros, and extended periods before res changes.

here is a recipe with easier to get salts.

Part A
KNO3 mass = 266.5 g
Ca(NO3)2_yara mass = 448.7 g
FeEDDHA mass = 17.67 g

Part B
MgSO4 mass = 215 g
KH2PO4 mass = 101.5 g

calcium is 85 ppm. fwiw, i'd raise Mg to 42 ppm to match the higher calcium.

kuz · Oct 5, 2010

Crysmatic said:
firstly, i have been using 5-4-10. second, multiply by density which is 1.025 g/ml.

however, the AN site as of today lists connie as 5-5-10-3.2-0.81. isn't that the second change in one year? and the nute calculator hasn't changed... can anyone verify the density of new connie? 410-179-681-262-98. sulfur must be really low, because they use mag nitrate and mag phosphate instead of mag sulfate :(

How did you determine the density? I'm about to just start ignoring anything from Advanced Nutrients. Connie and Sensi come in the same size bottle and weigh the same and have the same p-k percentages, that would make ppms of p and k the same, unless i'm missing something as far as density goes.

What was the density of fatmans mix? I'm starting to see more and more why you like ratios vs ppm numbers.

kuz · Oct 5, 2010

MeJuana said:
Adv. Nute Primo GRAND DADDY MASTER "rough draft: needs q/a but should be accurate"

Stage 3 = Weeks 3 through 6,7,8 or until flush (Their calculator said so)
N Total 345.6
P 119.1
K 520.9
Mg 65.3
S 0
Ca 77.1
Si 1.99581
:D

Thanks, I've been wanting to see what that all adds up to. Thing is I dont see many growers using the line up complete, not like they do House and Gardens and Dutchmaster. Mg/Ca and Ca/N are interesting. There is some magnesium sulphate in one of those products, isnt there? They just forgot S on the guaranteed analysis.

MeJuana · Oct 5, 2010

Yeah they did Bud Factor and Bud Candy are both derived from Mag Sulfate I think.. They are hiding their true Sulfur value, because I think they keep it purposefully low like Chysmatic said. (secret) :)

Edit: 25 dollars shipped to me 30g .001g
(Anyone using a nice cheap accurate scale?)

budboy299 · Oct 5, 2010

MeJuana...here is another tip I use all the time.

Mix up your micros at 10 times the amounts needed in a consistant amount of water (say 1000 ml).
then divide the concentrated micros into 10 equal parts (100 ml) and freeze them in dixie cups or whatever.

that way when you are mixing up a batch of nutes you just take one out of the freezer, thaw it, and you instantly have your micros in the correct ratios for your batch of nutes.

Basically all the nute formulas use the same amounts of the micros.

Do this one time and you wont have to measure anything that accurate again for quite some time -BB

MeJuana · Oct 5, 2010

I want to have lower sulfur and Magnesium Nitrate seems unobtainable, but then I noticed Magnesium Citrate is a people supplement available at my vitamin store. Can't I just use that?

Look what AN says about Citric Acid on there Big Bud Powder page

The carbohydrate constituents in Big Bud are citric acid and ascorbic acid. These two compounds are both used in large amounts by plant cells; both are found in millimolar amounts which is 1000 times higher than the micromolar amounts typical for many metabolites or vitamins found inside cells. Citrate is essential to run respiration, and ascorbate is integral to photosynthesis and always acts as an antioxidant to protect plant cells from UV damage, pollution and free radicals.

Citric acid is a key metabolite that is used by the plants cells respiratory system called the Citric Acid Cycle. Via the Citric Acid Cycle, plants and animal cells respire .

P.S. Budboy thx for the tip

budboy299 · Oct 5, 2010

MeJuana, are there any agricultural farm stores there? I grabbed a 50lb bag here of Mag Nitrate fairly easy. I would send you some but the custom guys go nuts when they hear nitrate.
The guy at the agricultural supply place says it is a pretty common fert component here.

HydroRookie · Oct 5, 2010

I emailed Daniel about this Mg:S issue and he told me that you could also use Magnesium Chloride provided you keep the chloride below 100 ppm. Otherwise Magnesium nitrate is the best choice :)

MeJuana · Oct 5, 2010

I will check around again I think I just suck at checking lol

Crysmatic · Oct 6, 2010

that is a crazy scale! the kind you put in a box so air movement doesn't affect it :)

even with my .1g scale, i couldn't be off by 9 ppm on anything. error is accepted as 1/2 the smallest gradation. in my case error is +/-0.05g. if i need 0.39g of copper sulfate to get 1 ppm, i measure out 0.4g, +/-0.05g i.e. 0.35-0.45g. 0.05/0.4 x 100 = 12.5%. 1 ppm +/- 12.5% is 0.875-1.125 ppm. i really don't worry about it.

recently, i've cut fatman's micros to 1/3. it's still much higher than any commercial fert. i use DNF trace elements for its super high molybdenum content - 1.35g per litre of part B gives me 0.09 ppm Mo. the only thing it throws off enough for me to care is the iron - it gives me about 1 ppm.

imho close is good enough in horseshoes, hand grenades, and fertilizer. plants have evolved to thrive in a wide range of soils...and soil doesn't change NPK ratios every week.

hth

squarepusher · Oct 6, 2010

MeJuana said:
Yeah they did Bud Factor and Bud Candy are both derived from Mag Sulfate I think.. They are hiding their true Sulfur value, because I think they keep it purposefully low like Chysmatic said. (secret) :)

Edit: 25 dollars shipped to me 30g .001g
(Anyone using a nice cheap accurate scale?)

boom $7

Crysmatic · Oct 6, 2010

kuz said:
How did you determine the density? I'm about to just start ignoring anything from Advanced Nutrients. Connie and Sensi come in the same size bottle and weigh the same and have the same p-k percentages, that would make ppms of p and k the same, unless i'm missing something as far as density goes.

What was the density of fatmans mix? I'm starting to see more and more why you like ratios vs ppm numbers.

original conni is part A 4.9-0-3.6 and part B 1.8-5.1-6.4, totaling 6.7-5.1-10. the old label reads 4L / 4.1 kg = 1.025 g/ml. i swear it was 5-4-10 at one point :joint:

new sensi bloom is part A 4-0-4-3.5-0 part B 1-5-6-0-0.7. total 5-5-10-3.5-0.7. that's also assuming part a and part b are the same density.

i couldn't tell you the density of fatman's bloom recipe. my "3-1-4" was the wrong recipe, and has lots of precipitate.

MeJuana · Oct 6, 2010

Crysmatic Re: weighing stuff Thanks bro I was thinking about just that stuff today and I get it a little better now.

This is funny too I was thinking how many atoms are in a gallon of water so how many parts of that would be Mo for instance.. So if I used a quick Google search there are 379,800,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 atoms in a gallon of water. So if there are 1 ppm of Mo would it be
379,800,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 / 1,000,000 = 379,800,000,000,000,000,000 ions of Mo

P.S. Thx for that scale link square pusher

kuz · Oct 6, 2010

Crysmatic said:
original conni is part A 4.9-0-3.6 and part B 1.8-5.1-6.4, totaling 6.7-5.1-10. the old label reads 4L / 4.1 kg = 1.025 g/ml. i swear it was 5-4-10 at one point :joint:

new sensi bloom is part A 4-0-4-3.5-0 part B 1-5-6-0-0.7. total 5-5-10-3.5-0.7. that's also assuming part a and part b are the same density.

i couldn't tell you the density of fatman's bloom recipe. my "3-1-4" was the wrong recipe, and has lots of precipitate.

I was looking at 1L/1.1K = 1.1, Mejuana used 1.113981 on his AN spreadsheet.

connie should be; 4-0-4, and 2-4-10 or 3-2-7?
According to ca. ag site;

Maybe this will be next months version. lol. I was on that site looking for a more precise density measurement, funny they dont seem to list one.

Crysmatic · Oct 7, 2010

i got excited for a second, then realised that AN still shows old connie A/B 6.6-5.1-9.2. at 1.1 g/ml (hint: calculate the density for 1L, 4L, 10L, and 23L)

MeJuana · Oct 7, 2010

That is a good catch thanks!! Damn I was using Liters to Pounds conversion in the Nute O Rama calculator but the weights aren't like that on the label.. 1.1Kg isn't 2.5lbs, because 1L isn't 1 quart.. It is amazing how little it changed the numbers. Also it is extremely stupid because now that you said 1.1kg / 1L I see it in my head now..

This is using Liter / Kilogram
Week1
N Total 294.8
P 106.6
K 405.0
Mg 68.0
S 0.0
Ca 99.8
Fe 13.00000
Si 2.00000

Week2
N Total 294.8
P 115.3
K 454.8
Mg 68
S 0
Ca 99.8
Fe 13
Si 2

Week 3 - Flush
N Total 334.8
P 115.3
K 504.6
Mg 63
S 0
Ca 74.8
Si 2

P.S. Updated them only changed all the weights.

MeJuana · Oct 7, 2010

There's no way that formula will be ok for my plants.. Too little Ca Mg.. Right?

Donkdbz · Oct 7, 2010

Dutch Master Gold Flower A
1.06 g/ml
4 N, 4 K, 0.5 MG, 1.5 Ca, 0.003 Fe, 0.0001 Mn, 0.001 Zn, 0.001 Cu

Flower B
1.06g/ml
3 P, 5 K, 0.5 Mg, 1.2 S, 0.001 B, 0.001 Mo

10ml gallon
112N, 37P, 209N, 28Mg, 34S, 42 Ca

Cannot read derived from.

With AN's Overdrive even though you can copy it the NPK profile what hormones are in it?
from website
They discovered a never-before-used combination of vitamins, organic materials, nutrients and other ingredients that make Overdrive a powerhouse harvest-boosting formula used by thousands of growers worldwide.

For example, Overdrive contains special forms of folic acid that work on a genetic level to reprogram blooming plants so they produce larger flowers late in bloom phase.

Overdrive also contains plant-friendly forms of Vitamin C. These special vitamins increase photosynthesis efficiency and makes plants better able to deal with heat, high intensity lighting and stress.

All of Overdrive’s ingredients are matched so they work together to give your plants exactly what they need for late-season bloom building.

Used to say special hormones on Overdrive and Bud Igniter but they took it out that sentance. Overdrive works good but all the special crap sounds is just normal vitamin C and folic acid.

(Fatman's) DIY nutrient mixing guide

(Fatman's) DIY nutrient mixing guide

Crysmatic

MeJuana

Crysmatic

kuz

kuz

MeJuana

budboy299

MeJuana

budboy299

HydroRookie

MeJuana

Crysmatic

squarepusher

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