(Fatman's) DIY nutrient mixing guide

MeJuana · Oct 11, 2010

Why is it that if I do the math using Gallon/Pound or Liter/Kilogram I get different results..

Botanicare Calmag is (1 Gallon / 9.9 Pounds 3.8L / 4.52 KG)

1 Gallon = 3785.41178 ml / 9.9 pounds = (453.59237 g * 9.9) = 4490.564463 g
4490.564463 ml / 3785.41178 g = 1.1862816316908064358588750415946 g

OR

4150 g / 3800 ml = 1.0921052631578947368421052631579g

References: Gallons to Liters, Pounds to Kilograms
1 Gallon = 3.78541178 Liters
1 Liter = 0.264172052 Gallons
1 Pound = 0.45359237 Kilograms
1 Kilogram = 2.20462262 Pounds

Crysmatic · Oct 12, 2010

first, 4 decimal places is good enough to get 99.99% accuracy.

where did you get 4150 g? it's 4.52 kg divided by 3.785L = 1.194 g/ml. why convert?! converting only introduces error and wastes energy (first law of thermodynamics ;) METRIC rocks!

in this case, i would look at the 4.52 kg and see it's more precise than 9.9lb (take half of the smallest gradation). i know 1 usgal is 3.785L, and not 3.8. the 30g difference - from 4.52kg to 9.9lb / 4.49kg - is only 0.65% error...which won't make a difference either way.

sqwirlgrl: there's been some debate against using potassium nitrate early in flower. i say a nitrate is a nitrate. assuming you use the same NPK ratio throughout flower, do you use different salts at different times?

MeJuana · Oct 12, 2010

Edit: Removed last link

My goal is to find any chemical I need and in the USA, I think I got it in case you guys wanted it too. Prices aren't the best, but one stop shop this appears to be

P.S. Cysmatic thank you again.

budboy299 · Oct 13, 2010

Gotta be farm supply companies where you guys are.

Magnesium Nitrate near me is aprox 60.00 per 50lb bag.
greenhouse grade 95-98%

Must be a ton of farming going on in Cali, isn't there?

MeJuana · Oct 13, 2010

I think there are but I suck at finding them.. My friend told me to try animal feed stores.. I am moving to Nothern California next summer and I did a search there it won't be a problem. lol

marihuanero · Oct 13, 2010

is it secure if i buy seed in this web siteee????

Crysmatic · Oct 15, 2010

Fatman Bloom

I thought I might as well post this. Fatman uses 2.81-1-4.4. I'm guessing it's NPK-CaMgS 238-37-310-205-85-112. Mg could be up to 100 ppm.

Achieved concentrations

N (NO3) 238.29 ppm
P 37.02 ppm
K 309.72 ppm
Ca 205.46 ppm
Mg 84.8 ppm
S 113.1 ppm
B 5 ppm
Fe 10 ppm
Zn 5 ppm
Mn 5 ppm
Cu 1 ppm
Mo 0.09 ppm

Concentrated A solution
Volume for solution A is 10 liters

KNO3 mass = 681.5 g
Ca(NO3)2 mass = 1213 g
FeDTPA mass = 47.57 g

Concentrated B solution
Volume for solution B is 10 liters

MgSO4 mass = 860.1 g
KH2PO4 mass = 162.5 g
ZnSO4 mass = 21.986 g
MnSO4 mass = 15.38 g
CuSO4 mass = 3.93 g
H3BO3 mass = 28.6 g
Na2MoO4 mass = 0.227 g

estimated EC 2.45 mS

MeJuana · Oct 15, 2010

Why do you think Fatman's nitrogen on Drain to Waste is higher than on Blloom Recirc? (in particular) Admittedly I am not the expert here but that seems wrong no?

http://www.invalid.com/hydroponics-aeroponics/334895-nutrient-recipes.html

P.S. In my head Nitrogen should be higher on recirc

MeJuana · Oct 15, 2010

“The Great Phosphorus Myth” by Advanced Nutrients is a little funny because this is a known thing. Phosphorus washes out of soil easily so in outdoor crops where there is no “bottom” the phosphorus can seep into the ground and away from your roots. What about Sulfur?
Sulfur also washes out of the ground, why do we add it in high levels indoors?
Sulfur pushes Calcium hard and I dunno what else.
Sulfur is one of the biggest contributors to TASTE!!

I want to drop Sulfur big, but I dunno how far to go with it.

P.S. Almost 12/12 time!!! :D I am going with a perfect 300 100 400 ratio, just the sulfur is the last piece I need. "4 salts besides traces and -/+ 0% error i think"

Jalisco Kid · Oct 15, 2010

MeJuana said:
“The Great Phosphorus Myth” by Advanced Nutrients is a little funny because this is a known thing. Phosphorus washes out of soil easily so in outdoor crops where there is no “bottom” the phosphorus can seep into the ground and away from your roots. What about Sulfur?
Sulfur also washes out of the ground, why do we add it in high levels indoors?
Sulfur pushes Calcium hard and I dunno what else.
Sulfur is one of the biggest contributors to TASTE!!

I want to drop Sulfur big, but I dunno how far to go with it.

P.S. Almost 12/12 time!!! :D I am going with a perfect 300 100 400 ratio, just the sulfur is the last piece I need. "4 salts besides traces and -/+ 0% error i think"

You might try adding some K to a few plants since you are drain to waste. Try at least a 2.5:1 N:K. Plants need more push in flower and N just does not do it for my girls. I think you might end up with bigger,tighter bud with a better tric profile.

MeJuana · Oct 15, 2010

Thanks JK that was my other concern too was the K, I am still small tube Aero NFT "recirc" and I am moving away from that because I have had root rot 2 of 3 runs so far that I had to fight with bleach, thank god for fatman on that note too. Which does remind me

Fighting Root Rot with Bleach, by the fatman himself. "tested, works, word"
http://www.invalid.com/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/286022-killing-root-rot-2.html#post3576447

squarepusher · Oct 15, 2010

cool Mej, how much bleach do you have to put per gallon and how often ?

Crysmatic · Oct 15, 2010

Jalisco Kid said:
You might try adding some K to a few plants since you are drain to waste. Try at least a 2.5:1 N:K. Plants need more push in flower and N just does not do it for my girls. I think you might end up with bigger,tighter bud with a better tric profile.

JK, you've said you use close to 3-3.5-8 NPK. do you mean 1:2.5 Nitrogen:Potassium? are you talking %w/w or ppm-wise? fwiw, my outdoor buds were airy...

MeJuana said:
P.S. Almost 12/12 time!!! :D I am going with a perfect 300 100 400 ratio, just the sulfur is the last piece I need. "4 salts besides traces and -/+ 0% error i think"

best of luck!

MeJuana said:
Why do you think Fatman's nitrogen on Drain to Waste is higher than on Blloom Recirc? (in particular) Admittedly I am not the expert here but that seems wrong no?

http://www.invalid.com/hydroponics-aeroponics/334895-nutrient-recipes.html

P.S. In my head Nitrogen should be higher on recirc

the NPK ratios aren't too far apart. what confuses me is his dtw has low calcium. fatman has quoted 0.8-1.0 Ca:N as ideal. fatman also says, at the beginning of this thread, that he uses 2.81-1-4.4 - NOT the recipe he lists?!
recirc=1.6-1-2.3-1.4-0.5
DTW=1.75-1-2.4-0.56-0.23
as far as ppm...maybe sitting in high N will burn roots, vs feed/water/water in soiless? in both cases K:N hovers around 1.4:1.

MeJuana · Oct 15, 2010

thx Crysmatic hopefully I won't need luck, just in case I have backup plants going in.. lol

squarepusher said:
cool Mej, how much bleach do you have to put per gallon and how often ?

Quick and dirty

Flairform Pythoff mimic
100ml of Clorox Regular bleach per 1 gallon of water

(Adding the water/bleach dilute from above)
5ml per gallon of nutrient solution the first day
2.5ml per gallon of nutrient solution each following day.

P.S. I had the faintest tint of root rot only in both cases and you can literally see it disappear, noticeable change of appearance within 24 hours.

squarepusher · Oct 15, 2010

so Pythoff is just Bleach + water? :)
great man thanks! hydro growers rejoice

MeJuana · Oct 16, 2010

Yeah just bleach <laugh>

I need help deciding and it is time, I am waiting to decide at this point b4 12/12.. Either want to run Fatman's Bloom Recirc OR his Drain to Waste but in recirc.. Final answer, sorry to flip flop!! What do you guys think, recirc formula or drain to waste?? look at this

Average of Hash Plant leaf analysis in bloom matches his drain to waste..

fatman's Bloom Drain to Waste

Nitrogen 400
Phosphorus 100
Potassium 449
Magnesium 50
Calcium 125
Sulfur 66

AN "Great Phosphorus Myth tissue analysis" HB Bloom averaged

Nitrogen 416
Phosphorus 106
Potassium 457
Magnesium 57
Calcium 121
Sulfur 40

Side by side Fatman on left

N 400/416
P 100/106
K 449/457
Mg 50/57
Ca 125/121
S 66/40

Edit Note:
Hey guys I decided to do recirc anyway in the end I just wanna try his way first.

Puffntuff · Oct 18, 2010

i think heath said he used ionic in his aero. only the a+b no boosters

Jalisco Kid · Oct 22, 2010

Crysmatic said:
JK, you've said you use close to 3-3.5-8 NPK. do you mean 1:2.5 Nitrogen:Potassium? are you talking %w/w or ppm-wise? fwiw, my outdoor buds were airy.

I was referring to ppm. The other post was in ppm. K for me is the fuel for pushing my flowers. I like to grow large plants so it is different then say SOG. There are certain weeks I need to preload my girls where with a 2 oz plant it is not that necessary. JK

skwirlgirl · Oct 23, 2010

I've had the bloom recirc' vs. D2W bloom recipe debate a few times with Fatman. I run UC's and was told by the fat one that if I want to run his (High N/Low P/High K) D2W recipe I should change the water fairly often...like every 4 days...sometimes 3 days amazingly as to aviod degrading the mix...something about lower P and less buffering

I don't mix my own so he set me up with this recipe>

GH 4 part:

2 parts Grow

2 parts Bloom

1 part Micro

1 part Hard Water Micro

*Epsoms salts at 3 weeks> 1 gram/gallon mixed in hot water

mix at 600 ppm

PH is never higher than 6.2 or lower than 5.6

I forgot what it comes out to on a spreadsheet but I believe it's close enuf' to his recipe. Maybe someone could refresh my mem' and break it down

Note> I use that basic recipe from start 'till later in flowering (say after stretch) I start backing off on Micro and use more Hardwater Micro (less Calcium) + 20 % less Micros ie 100 ppm less and add 100/150 ppm more of the Bloom/Grow (that's right more Grow which is high in K)

MeJuana · Oct 23, 2010

skwirlgirl you are awesome thank you for asking him.. That makes perfect sense now and nah I aint changing my rez every 4 days.. :D Thanks to all of your help on this thread too while I am thanking people.

I am running fatman recirc May 2010 with Great White Bacteria and nothing else, plus I don't foliage feed either. Only day 2 of 12/12 but shit they look nice.

P.S. Does anyone know if fatman has a CoCo Coir recipe? I am filling the rest of my room with CoCo Coir plants in a matter of weeks now it will start.

(Fatman's) DIY nutrient mixing guide

(Fatman's) DIY nutrient mixing guide

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