here it is.. if u were wondering why fatman is banned, well its because he i a huge fucking tool, has some knowledge but he cant convey it to others cause he is such a douche. :dull

He got off to a bad start.

After giving it a quick read i dont see why he was even banned.It just seemed like people having a dissagreement not really seeming ban worthy.What a shame cause it really seemed like a good thread info wise to people running hydro systems.Sometimes it can be quite difficult to read someone's intentions in text,misjudging translation.This is the time where soil growers are happy to be able to avoid the critisism and confrontation of all you hydro bullies lol.

but he is correct about the DO and the other technical info.

relevant links

http://allhydroponics.blogspot.com/2009/02/hoaglands-solution-for-hydroponic.html

http://allhydroponics.blogspot.com/2009/02/preparing-hydroponics-nutrient.html

http://allhydroponics.blogspot.com/2009/02/preparing-hydroponic-nutrient-solution.html

http://allhydroponics.blogspot.com/2010/05/hydroponic-nutrients-why-solid-is.html

lots of info on that site..

fatman can be a huge dickhead at times, especially if someone differs opinion with him, if u dont believe me, read some his posts at RIU,
first off he doesnt even blaze,
he copies and paste alot of stuff, then he makes a couple typo errors to make it look like his( i have caught him doing that a couple times.)
he has never posted any pics, or even draw a diagram to help others.
the whole point of these sites is to learn, and share, and some fun.
I dont understand why he comes here to share info, but if someone see's things a little different he starts calling names.. what good is he?

He is banned at almost every single site, I think the mods made the right decision, cause he obviously hasnt learnt anything./ my 2 cents

^^ I agree. A good attitude in life will get you much further than aptitude alone. I'm glad the mods, sent him packing.
.

update: I purchased some of each of the nutrients I made in my previous post to give it a first shot. They should arrive in a few days, and I'll be off the mixing my first nutrient solution from scratch.

I'm thinking of going something like 3-1-2 for veg, and 3-2-3 for flower

squarepusher said:

update: I purchased some of each of the nutrients I made in my previous post to give it a first shot. They should arrive in a few days, and I'll be off the mixing my first nutrient solution from scratch.

I'm thinking of going something like 3-1-2 for veg, and 3-2-3 for flower

Click to expand...

If you have 2 rez's I would try 2 formulas. Your flower formula could use less P(60 ppm is good for your base) and more K as that is what will be driving your growth for flowering. That could come with your bloom booster formula if you are going to use one. I use something like 120-60-280 -60 in my flower going up to 325 ppm with my K for about 10 days around week 6. I then drop my mag and micros at week 6-7 also. JK
Edit I would also tweek your veg formula for the first 10 days with less N and more P and little more K to help get your roots going.I like to use MAP for that.

ditto jalisco kid.. also might wanna check out Hoaglands solution. Read those links I posted.. It's a blog by a chemist who makes all this same stuff really easy to understand.

squarepusher said:

update: I purchased some of each of the nutrients I made in my previous post to give it a first shot. They should arrive in a few days, and I'll be off the mixing my first nutrient solution from scratch.

I'm thinking of going something like 3-1-2 for veg, and 3-2-3 for flower

Click to expand...

Hows that working out for ya?

I was thinking something like this. Ounces per gallon;
Sodium nitrate .095
Calcium Nitrate .056
MKP .015
Potassium chloride .018
Magnesium sulfate .054
180 N, 60 P, 120 K, 45 Mg, Ca 90, S 57
Its a simple formula but i'd double check my numbers for sure.

Then Jk has to come out with the k 2.5 x N, now i'll have to re-figure. I trust JK over fatman any day, 2.5 x 180 probably too much, so have to drop the N some. Not sure where Ca should be but fatman said 1/2 of N so I went with that. Not sure on optimal S either, calcium nitrate has more Ca than N so have to use something with it.

DoubleDub said:

relevant links

http://allhydroponics.blogspot.com/2009/02/hoaglands-solution-for-hydroponic.html

http://allhydroponics.blogspot.com/2009/02/preparing-hydroponics-nutrient.html

http://allhydroponics.blogspot.com/2009/02/preparing-hydroponic-nutrient-solution.html

http://allhydroponics.blogspot.com/2010/05/hydroponic-nutrients-why-solid-is.html

lots of info on that site..

Click to expand...

this is a really nice site, i just stumbled upon it by accident and definitely packed full on info. He also just released a free nutrient calculator (although im not sure how accurate it is, I've had some difference with my hand calculation) :)

kuz said:

Hows that working out for ya?

I was thinking something like this. Ounces per gallon;
Sodium nitrate .095
Calcium Nitrate .056
MKP .015
Potassium chloride .018
Magnesium sulfate .054
180 N, 60 P, 120 K, 45 Mg, Ca 90, S 57
Its a simple formula but i'd double check my numbers for sure.

Then Jk has to come out with the k 2.5 x N, now i'll have to re-figure. I trust JK over fatman any day, 2.5 x 180 probably too much, so have to drop the N some. Not sure where Ca should be but fatman said 1/2 of N so I went with that. Not sure on optimal S either, calcium nitrate has more Ca than N so have to use something with it.

Click to expand...

this looks like a 3-1-2 for veg i assume?

squarepusher said:

this looks like a 3-1-2 for veg i assume?

Click to expand...

idk, I'm not ready to start mixing my own yet. Didnt fatman use 3-1-2 all the way? Maybe
Max out around this;
Bloom;
Sodium nitrate .06
Calcium nitrate .042
Potassium choride .05
Magnesium sulfate .036
MKP .025
MAP .011

N 125, P 150, k 300, Mg 30, Ca 60, S 39

I havent found any real good info on what the ratios should be, I'll just be winging it. Not sure if there

Is any sort of order to mix everything?

Lucas formula is 100-100-200 which works out to 4-9-9.5 with the calculator. btw, where can i find explanations for the equations for converting chemical % to ppm?

A * 15-0-0
B * 0-52-34
C * 0-0-50

A, B, C being 0.2, 0.02, and 0.026, respectively, for your 3-1-2 NPK veg formula.
JK suggests 3-3.5-8.5 NPK in flower, and the coefficients become 0.2, 0.067, and 0.124.

JK, do you continue to use a veg formula in 12/12 until flowering starts? how do you finish the flowering cycle? do you go from 3-3.5-8.5 to flush, or a different formulation? basically, how do you tweak your feeding regimen?

Squarepusher, what do you think of Grow More's (or Haifa, et al) fully chelated trace element mix?

What about substituting about 25% nitrate with urea or ammoniacal nitrogen? What about any chemical which makes chloride ions?

Crysmatic said:

Lucas formula is 100-100-200 which works out to 4-9-9.5 with the calculator. btw, where can i find explanations for the equations for converting chemical % to ppm?

Click to expand...

oz fert per gal irrigation water
= target ppm / (75 × 100 × df)
df being the fraction amount of the chemical element
and;
ppm=ounces fert per gal irrigation water × 75 × 100 × df
link http://www.greenhouse.cornell.edu/crops/factsheets/FertilizerCalculations.pdf

what little i know about fertilizer came mostly from this link

Joined the forum to subscribe to this thread. :)

this thread rocks!!! I am so not into making big mike rich, this is for me. Granted it is going to take some time for me to figure all this out, but given some time i will b fine with it.

2b2s

I believe PPM is grams per 1000 Liters.

So,
100 grams of nitrogen in 1000 liters would give 100 ppm
50 grams of nitrogen in 1000 liters would give 50ppm

however, to get actual grams of nitrogen, it depends on your fertilizers. For example, Calicum Nitrate, which is 15.5-0-0 NPK is 15.5 % nitrogen. so to get 100 grams of nitrogen from this, you would need 100g / 15.5% = 645g of Calcium Nitrate).

So, 645 g of Calcium Nitrate with purity of 15.5-0-0 will give 100g of pure nitrogen.
Dissolving 645 g of Calcium NItrate into 1000L of water will give you 100 ppm.

Fairly sure this is how it works :)

It is a bit more complicated with P and K values, as they have normalization values
P is only 43.6% pure
K is only 83% pure, so this should be taken into considering at the beginning before caluculations.

Also, from the allhydronpics blog above, he just released a Nutrient Calculator!!

http://allhydroponics.blogspot.com/2010/07/preparing-your-own-hydroponic-nutrients.html

check it out, this makes things a lot simpler, all you need to do is plug in target PPM values, and the calculator spits out the results. Keep in mind, the Calcium Nitrate on the top of his list is actually 11.8-0-0, where as the more popular brand (the one I have) is 15.5-0-0 and is on the bottom of the list (have to scroll down) labeled as Yara brand

http://allhydroponics.blogspot.com/2010/07/preparing-your-own-hydroponic-nutrients.html

check it out!

also, I wanted to post some of Fatman's "suggested" formula's. I haven't double checked these, and am simply copying and pasting. Turns out, Lucas may work, but not be that great. Here are some recommended formulas for using RDWC type systems, or I'm sure would work in any system recirculating

The below formulations are for recirculation reservoir systems. They are low ammonium nitrogen fertilizations so they have lower phosphorus as typically phosphoric acid is being added quite often due to pH rises during high nitrate uptake. If you like I can make up formualtions more desirable to your growing method. Your method is more like a soil grow but with out the humus to buffer against pH rises. Your system would likely do better with lower calcium, and magnesium but higher phosphorus as one would use with a drain to waster hydro like a high pressure aero system.

fatman's Veg Formulation
ppm

Nitrogen 267
Phosphorus 82
Potassium 291
Magnesium 93
Calcium 261
Sulfur 123
Iron 10.00
Manganese 5.00
Boron 5.00
Zinc 5.00
Copper 1.00
Molybdenum .09

Ounces

Part A

Calcium Nitrate 91.5
Potassium Nitrate 17.4
Iron Chelate 7.14
Part B
Potassium Nitrate 17.4
MonoPotassium Phosphate 27.3
Magnesium Sulfate 66.4
Manganese Sulfate 1.423
Boric Acid / Solubor 1.944
Zinc Sulfate 1.542
Copper Sulfate .311
Ammonium Molybdate .013
Volume of Stock Solutions
5.3 gallons
Dilution Rate 100
EC 2.75
pH 5.8
TDS 1925

fatman's Bloom Formula
ppm
Nitrogen 240
Phosphorus 74
Potassium 261
Magnesium 84
Calcium 235
Sulfur 111
Iron 10.00
Manganese 5.00
Boron 5.00
Zinc 5.00
Copper 1.00
Molybdenum .09

Ounces

Part A

Calcium Nitrate 82.2
Potassium Nitrate 15.6
Iron Chelate 7.14

Part B

Potassium Nitrate 15.6
MonoPotassium Phosphate 24.6
Magnesium Sulfate 59.7
Manganese Sulfate 1.423
Boric Acid / Solubor 1.944
Zinc Sulfate 1.542
Copper Sulfate .311
Ammonium Molybdate .013
Volume of Stock Solutions 5.3
Dilution Rate 100
EC 2.47
TDS 1729
pH 5.8

Yes the formulations can be made in smaller batchs. Say for a 1.06 gallon batch divide each ingrediant by 5. A batch of say 5.3 gallons of concentrate means 2.65 gallons of Part A and 2.65 gallons of Part B. Not 5.3 gallons of each. The formulations should cost about $5 per each gallon of 100 to 1 concentrate.