Filtering botrytis affected Cannabis oil to remove spores/botrytis

[Trichs Rok]

Graywolf is an awesome member. He knows a lot about almost everything, but its important to remember he is an engineer and his chemistry knowledge is limited in that respect. If I were to hire someone to answer the question "are there toxins produced by these mold types?" it would not be an engineer, it would be a microbiologist and toxicologist.

To my knowledge you cannot find alcohol above like 160 proof in cali. I think there is some brand called kleen and supposedly they sell 100% ethanol. Expose it to air for long enough and and it goes to 95%, so not sure that its any better but they sell to the extract makers crowd and ship most places. You can also buy a chemistry set with the ability to distill your own alcohol for like $100. With it you make your own or you can buy cheap store bought alcohol and get it to the high 80's to low 90's really easily.

Thank you for the confidence in knowledge I've gleaned, but don't underestimate engineers - those guys are damn smart and very well-rounded in many disciplines of science!!! You want to know what I learned in college? Not so much to cram my head full of facts to sound smart, but I was taught how to learn, and how to teach myself. The facts - who can remember all them? Those up "look-up-able." That is invaluable....the skill of critical thinking and analysis.

Have a good night, sir!

 

[OCEAN24]

Right on, so nobody with AIDS or Cancer gets to hit my oil JUST IN CASE... Good thing I don't know anyone with AIDS or Cancer, they might be disappointed. Trichs Rock, thank you for your input always pleasurable to learn, I think you and Gray Wolf have a similar intellect and could definitely learn from one another. I didn't mean for any of my replies to come off as offended, I'm glad to be questioned, it gets me asking questions! And then my shit gets higher quality, and I end up with a more comfortable life.

 

[OCEAN24]

Graywolf is an awesome member. He knows a lot about almost everything, but its important to remember he is an engineer and his chemistry knowledge is limited in that respect. If I were to hire someone to answer the question "are there toxins produced by these mold types?" it would not be an engineer, it would be a microbiologist and toxicologist.

To my knowledge you cannot find alcohol above like 160 proof in cali. I think there is some brand called kleen and supposedly they sell 100% ethanol. Expose it to air for long enough and and it goes to 95%, so not sure that its any better but they sell to the extract makers crowd and ship most places. You can also buy a chemistry set with the ability to distill your own alcohol for like $100. With it you make your own or you can buy cheap store bought alcohol and get it to the high 80's to low 90's really easily.

Thats an excellent point about Gray Wolfs knowledge base, I'm probably naive to trust his word the way I do but what can I say the dude makes epic informative posts. I'll have to look into the 100% ethanol, but distilling my own 90% booze from popov is really tempting.. Thanks for your help dude I truly appreciate yours and all the other input.

 

[daub marley]

the 2 allergens found in Botrytis are called glucans and chitin. (Exact names simplified). These aren't unique to Botrytis but are found in many bacteria and fungi.

That's interesting. Many fertilizers, pesticides, and plant growth enhancers contain chitin and/or chitosan. How much of it would it take to cause an allergic response by inhalation in a typical case? (i.e maybe only severely moldy buds would be a concern.)
BTW great post! Your thoroughness is greatly appreciated.

Thanks for your help dude I truly appreciate yours and all the other input.

Thanks man! Anytime.

 

[Trichs Rok]

Hey great catch, my man! Indeed, chitin is found in almost all plant matter (not certain of exact % - pretty high tho) and therefore, from a medical approach - won't this allergy be discovered before the moldy weed was going to be smoked? LOL I make a joke, but it is true - allergies to chitins and glucans are not common, but they almost always are discovered during childhood. I would think a person who is allergic to chitin, would know of it long before they got to be of age to smoke weed. Therefore, public health-wise, a very small % of people would be affected.

The very real danger here is when a person does NOT know they are allergic. Again, usually when a person has allergies, they know it before they get to a severe, throat-closing response and can avoid the allergen...it's just that it is possible. When I mentioned those with poor immune systems should refrain from Botrytis-infected weed, I think (still) it is wiser and safer to find another oil. Spider bites - how many people actually die? Not many really, even from Black Widow or Brown Recluse, but it IS possible to die from a single spider bite. (FYI - almost all that do die from spider bites, are, as you may have guessed, ALSO allergic to that spider).
Geez there's no way I'd knowingly hold back the wonderful healing powers of mind and body with this plant! I think it's the top of botanical future for potential medical applications - if only all the dummies in our governments would just read and listen to the over 1,200 studies done - which is overwhelming evidence of it effects. The FDA approves drugs routinely with only 10-15 studies on drugs - did you know that? Is 10-15 studies enough? Alas, I digress again. I hope I've answered your question, sir, and if not, I'm happy to continue or extrapolate onto another subject. Have any science-based articles you'd like to read? Give me a topic, I can research and write an article (Gray Wolf and I are in contact and have been discussing a few things. He's a cool guy!) - D

 

[LittleDabbie]

*snip* Give me a topic, I can research and write an article (Gray Wolf and I are in contact and have been discussing a few things. He's a cool guy!) - D

Ask him when hes gonna finally runs some reclaim thru his fancy shamncy ms/gc and give us some data :D

 

[daub marley]

Give me a topic, I can research and write an article (Gray Wolf and I are in contact and have been discussing a few things. He's a cool guy!) - D

Is there a quick way to tell apart botrytis, aspergillus, and penicillum? GW has mentioned using a blacklight for aflatoxins, but I'm unsure of which aflatoxins would fluoresce exactly and which mold type it would correspond to. Is a microscope the only surefire solution?

 

[jump]

What happens to the aflatoxins when heated, broken up or not?

 

[Trichs Rok]

Ask him when hes gonna finally runs some reclaim thru his fancy shamncy ms/gc and give us some data :D

Well, I suppose I could ask him that. Since I know GC/MS, maybe I'll stroll on over and "help" him with that analysis - eh?

 

[Trichs Rok]

Is there a quick way to tell apart botrytis, aspergillus, and penicillum? GW has mentioned using a blacklight for aflatoxins, but I'm unsure of which aflatoxins would fluoresce exactly and which mold type it would correspond to. Is a microscope the only surefire solution?

I'm not sure what you've been told, but as an experienced mycologist with 20+ years of experience, YES, I can tell who is who just by looking. Rarely, I'm wrong when I mount the sample and examine with microscope (which I do with ALL cultures). I admit I can research auto-flourescing with a black-light (wavelength 365nm) to determine who is who - this I don't know at the moment and nothing in the scientific literature describes reliable (repeatable) analysis. So I shall do some research on this topic and get back to you - give me a week? The best and plain simple answer is: YES, it must be analyzed with a microscope. Only way to know for sure, and that's how medical and industrial microbiologists approach this topic. Hope this helps,

Thanks, D-Rok

 

[Trichs Rok]

What happens to the aflatoxins when heated, broken up or not?

Yes, heat breaks up aflatoxins (proteins). Heat denatures proteins which means the di-sulfide bridge present in every protein is broken, leading to a configuration (toxin) that isn't what it once was.

Having said that, however, aflatoxins have an amazing ability to cause disease and/or allergies EVEN after broken up by heat or chemical methods. Many studies have shown this.

If it were me, I would NOT ingest weed with known aflatoxin components. But, I am very "safe than sorry", so take my advice as you will. (Trust me, you should throw away aflatoxin-tainted weed. Common sense approach, not as a scientist). If your immune system is perfect, you have a chance (to not get sick). Anything less, is asking for problems.

Holler at me with any questions - I used to be a college professor so I love questions!! :)

-D-Rok

 

[Trichs Rok]

Ok yeah I didn't read that, don't have that long to invest in this reply. Can you please state in plain simple English, toxic or non-toxic? I also noticed you said "the spores can still germinate" - that's wrong the filters are small enough to filter out ALL spore material. The spores are gone, the botrytis virus is still there, but botrytis affects plants not mammals.. So no chance of it trying to colonize skin/lungs..

Dude, you should carefully read my reply here. It is very helpful (in my opinion). Thanks! - D-Rok

 

[chickchack]

Dude, you should carefully read my reply here. It is very helpful (in my opinion). Thanks! - D-Rok

Hi, I am a new victim of the mould and I hope you can give me some advice.

I have been drying cannabis in an environment that was too damp and cold. The result is that the buds look perfectly normal but some have a tiny bit of spider web-like threads on them, which is an onset of mould. These spider web-like threads can barely be noticed with the bear eye and I used a jeweller’s loupe to identify them. However when inspecting the buds under 60X magnified jeweller’s loupe, I saw just a few white spores on long shafts on some buds and this sounds like Aspergillum mould, but I'm not even sure that it’s possible to distinguish Aspergillum mould from Botrytis mould under a 60x jewel’s loop.

Question 1) If the buds look perfectly normal and only with the help of a jeweller’s loop I was able to spot a tiny bit of spider web-like onset of mould and just a tiny bit of the spores on long shafts then my weed can't possibly have much aflatoxins, right?

Any other person would probably not even have noticed the onset of mould on my buds. If I make rick simpson oil with190 proof grain alcohol and then heat it to 250 F for 25 minutes to decarb it, then it would eliminate all the mould and allergens from the oil, but the tiny bit of the aflatoxins will still be present even if I use a filtering method with a 0.2 micron syringe filter.

Question 2) If I only use the heat and 190 proof grain alcohol, without the 0.2 micron filtration, then I will destroy the proteins and therefore kill all the spores but could it still cause an allergic reaction for sensitive people?


Question 3) Do you think that the 0.2 filter will remove all the mould residue and therefore prevent any allergic reactions even in people allergic and sensitive to mould?


P.S. I know that the filter does not remove any aflatoxins that have already developed by the mould.

Sorry, really did not want to make that long of a post, but can't find any answer to my questions anywhere else and hope you can enlighten me.



Many thanks in advance!

 

[Graywolf]

Is there a quick way to tell apart botrytis, aspergillus, and penicillum? GW has mentioned using a blacklight for aflatoxins, but I'm unsure of which aflatoxins would fluoresce exactly and which mold type it would correspond to. Is a microscope the only surefire solution?

Morning ya'll. The only way I know to identify the different molds, is using a microscope, though a black light will cause aflatoxins to fluoresce green.