Finding My Nutes - Nutrient report

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B

BayArea

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When I pre-mix (with-in hours of application) I'll frequently adjust pH. I only add minor amounts of EJ's pH up. It works slowly but does seem to make things climb over time if I use to much. The tea seems more stabile for me and I can get away with just adding it when ready. My pH is typically to low if anything. I'm not sure if you mentioned your medium? Adding dolomite can sometimes help stabilize things. Another important thing to do IMO w/ EJ applications is allow 15% to 20% of your nutrient fluid to flow through your substrate - this will help with some of the lock out issues and leach some of the medium. I only do this after the first few waterings however. This gives microbial life time to bind to your medium and maintain populations through the frequent leaching.

They should mention the RO issue. I read an interesting article recently about how nutrient companies typically design their programs based on three different water types: soft, hard and buffered. Each solution is designed for specific water types. I've never seen this mentioned on any companies schedule but it makes sense. Even in this test some solutions are buffered from pH swings and others need balancing one way or the other.
 
yezmar420

yezmar420

86
8
When I pre-mix (with-in hours of application) I'll frequently adjust pH. I only add minor amounts of EJ's pH up. It works slowly but does seem to make things climb over time if I use to much. The tea seems more stabile for me and I can get away with just adding it when ready. My pH is typically to low if anything. I'm not sure if you mentioned your medium? Adding dolomite can sometimes help stabilize things. Another important thing to do IMO w/ EJ applications is allow 15% to 20% of your nutrient fluid to flow through your substrate - this will help with some of the lock out issues and leach some of the medium. I only do this after the first few waterings however. This gives microbial life time to bind to your medium and maintain populations through the frequent leaching.

They should mention the RO issue. I read an interesting article recently about how nutrient companies typically design their programs based on three different water types: soft, hard and buffered. Each solution is designed for specific water types. I've never seen this mentioned on any companies schedule but it makes sense. Even in this test some solutions are buffered from pH swings and others need balancing one way or the other.

Thank you for your response..I appreciate the time you took...

I use Roots Organics soil mixed with there soilless to lighten it up...75/25..somewhere around there..

I do allow for run off but I've got a different method I found online..since I'm small time and hand water..I typically give my plants a pre-water a couple hours before giving them the actual nutrients..I've read that prevents lockup and helps the plant digest stronger formulations..

I think my issue was the PH up on top of bubbling nutes.i.e..'Operator error'..now that I am armed with the proper knowledge I anticipate my next run being much better:smiley_joint:...


P.S...here is a link to my thread with pics if you are curious to see my results...
 
justiceman

justiceman

2,718
263
Great post bayarea! Very informative. I appreciate you sharing such information with us! Have you used Roots organics in a test?

Yezmar420,
The first time I brewed a tea with roots organics nutrients it was 3.9 ph when i added all the nutes. I was like:mad0233: but then I figured I would let it bubble for 24 hours. I did that came back and the ph was 4.2:mad0233: I let it bubble for another 24 hours. I came back and the ph was 4.5:mad0233: then i realized that i didn't add any extra molasses to the tea(that helps bacteria grow) I did that and when I came back only 6 hours later the ph had risen to 6.9 hahahaha. Bacteria don't mess around. They grow fast when givin enough food.

Try adding some molasses to your earth juice tea to adjust the microbiology ratio and raise the ph instead of PH up or PH down because those affect your ppm's and can cause an imbalance in the amount of nutrients you are feeding. For instance earth juice up is potassium bicarbonate, and having to high amount of potassium locks out other nutrients. I would only use the ph adjuster for very small ph changes.

Ph is related to the microbial because fungi give off acids where bacteria give off alkaline(basic) slimes. So a higher ratio of fungi to bacteria means low ph conditions where as the opopsite means high ph conditions. I believe cannabis likes a 1:1 ratio or close to that. That is why she like a ph of 5.5 to 6.8 because the right ratio of bacteria to fungi(and the right types) can survive and do their job at those ph levels.
 
B

BayArea

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Thanks for the input justiceman. I have Molasses in my schedule these day's and my tea always stabilizes real nice.
 
hotRod

hotRod

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BayArea > THANKS
Just wondering
Are the Rhizotonic and Cannazym part of the BioCanna product line or
did you just add them to the Biocanna test ??
(their website doesn't list them)
 
yezmar420

yezmar420

86
8
Would you consider Hygrozyme, Cannazyme, or sensisyme to be essential in any soil, soilles, or hydro grow?

He talks in depth about that here actually...




I personally have always used Hygrozyme and did notice a difference when I was doing my proof of concept on it in the beginning to see if it was worth it..the ones that got it just seemed healthier and more robust..
 
B

BayArea

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Hey guys, thanks for all the interested. I was reading through my results section regarding Eartjuice and realized the pH section should be better explained. I did mentioned pH should be balanced before application but I think that was probably the wrong thing to say without fully explaining how I do things with EJ applications and pH balancing.

Firstly, applications of EJ are perfectly fine either "pre-mixing" right before applying or developing a microbial tea and applying. The pre-mixing will result in microbial life also - just not as quickly or effeciently. I have a room that's fed with naturally pH 7 well water - and another that uses non-filtered dechlorinated tap water. This is were much of the confusion is developed and many of us end up scratching our heads.

The well water mixes good and I rarely struggle developing a healthy tea. The pH rises predictably and I rarely even need to check it. The well is spring fed, it's ideal.

The tap is another story. Years ago, I made the mistake many Earth Juicers make and used a reverse osmosis filter on the plant water. Athlough this seems logical it removes some vital ingrediants such as calcium and magnesium for example. These componants alone are important to healthy microbiology in the medium. Without a filter unfortuneatly, many times this means our ppm and ec can rise without much warning. We kind of get stuck between a rock and a hard place. RO your water and the "hard water" loving EJ will simply not blend properly. Don't RO your water and suffer from salt build up and pH swings. Adding Mg and Ca to the RO water can be done but I've found those two items are not the only minerals in typical water that the solution is designed to blend well with.

When I "pre-mix" the well water or take the time to make a tea I add no pH balancing at all. I trust the solution will balance itself out. If things remain to low I'll add some mollasses as mentioned above. pH will start to climb after that.

The tap water always sits out for at least 24 hours and preferably has air bubbled through it to eliminate any chlorine. My "pre-mix" feedings get pH balanced the majority of veg feedings and for the first part of flowering only. Infact I pH balance less and less with each application in flowering. I essentially allow the sloution to be more acidic later in flowering. Frequently under later flowering conditions plants exudates can raise soil pH substaincially. The microbial life is typically so prolific at this point you can rely on it to control the pH swings sometimes created with tap water. My schedule also calls for larger amounts of Molasses at the later stages that could also have an impact.

Making a tea with tap water - I dechlorinate in the same way. pH is controlled through additional applications of Molasses and only once in a blue moon, under severe conditions will I add any pH adjustment to the tea. I usually use EJ's pH adjusters.

During mid and late flowering it's very important, specifically using dechlorinated tap water to allow drain to waste with at least a 15% run-off off of solution. This will help incredibly by leaching any salt or mineral build up created from the water supply. Don't leach to early however, you want to give microbial life time to bind to your medium. I'll also mention adding Dolomite again - it's a good idea. I know I repeated a few details but I hope that cleared it up a little. Thanks
 
Z

zombywolf

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BayArea,

Excellent work on your part providing info on some well known products in action. I agree with your assessments on organics-best route to take. However, I am an ex-EJ user for the reason you state in your analysis-variable
composition of nutrients from batch to batch of EJ. That
lack of consistancy made me search for something more stable. Metanaturals was the solution (RIP) and was a much more consistant product. When it went away, I had to look for something else. Tried some of the others in your report-agree with your assessment on them.

I have recently been working with Technaflora Pura Vida. Looks like a very consistant products and have had excellent results-similar to Metanaturals and EJ. Interested in doing a similar test with Pura?
 
JayBee

JayBee

International Toker
Supporter
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great post. thanks for sharing this info with us.

JB
 
yezmar420

yezmar420

86
8
hey bay area...was curious...why do you cut the catalyst out after week 9? I was looking over the feed schedule and you mention that for flower extension to use week 10 again, which doesn't have catalyst, I always thought the catalyst provided the fuel for the plant and cutting it out after week 9 confuses me, maybe I don't understand it correctly???...


-------------Catalyst--------Micro---------Grow---------Bloom-------Meta K

week1 veg-----5ml----------5ml-----------5ml
week2 veg----10ml----------5ml-----------5ml
week3 veg----10ml----------5ml-----------10ml
week4 veg----10ml----------5ml-----------10ml
week5 flower--10ml----------5ml-----------10ml-----------5ml---------2.5ml
week6 flower--10ml----------5ml-----------10ml---------10ml----------2.5ml
week7 flower--10ml----------5ml-----------10ml---------10ml---------2.5ml
week8 flower--5ml-----------5ml-----------15ml---------15ml---------2.5ml
week9 flower--5ml-----------5ml-----------15ml--------20ml---------2.5ml
week10flwer----------------5ml-----------10ml-------- 25ml---------2.5ml
week11flwr-----------------5ml------------------------20ml
week12 FLUSH

Repeat week 3 for veg or 10 for flower extension
 
B

BayArea

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Hey Yezmar420, thanks for checking out the thread. You'll notice in my final schedule of EJ, the one I base my primary program on today, I use later Mollasses applications even after the Cat applications stop. Cat is full of Mollasses, plant appropriate acids and growth hormones. In the final stages of maturity I find feeding the microbial life with-out the additional Cat ingrediants helps in the absorption of late flowering nutreints.

I would recommend extending Cat use with-out added Mollasses.
 
BOSSMAN88188

BOSSMAN88188

894
48
Just an amazing thread.
I usually skip over long post's. (Migrain issues).
But I could not stop reading.
Thank you for taking the time to put together such a perfect report.
 
JACKMAYOFFER

JACKMAYOFFER

Playing with Fire Son...
Supporter
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Thanks for taking the time to do this. Everyone should read this Great info...Thanks
 
BOSSMAN88188

BOSSMAN88188

894
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Hey bayarea.
I just reread a bunch of you're post.
And I have a ?.
On the An you said you followed the manufacter's feeding.
Is that the feeding on the bottle or the nutrient calculater?
 
B

BayArea

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Thanks for checking out the thread guys,

BOSSMAN - I purchased all my AN nutes in Canada at the time and the store included a pamphlet with multiple schedules. The 2-part schedule matches the online calculator almost exactly (at medium strength). I really like AN - I see you've used it already. I've played around with AN a few times since and find the schedule should be altered a little from strain to strain. Like most cycles I suppose. Thanks again.......
 
BOSSMAN88188

BOSSMAN88188

894
48
I am actually testing it right now. against Fox farm witch I have used for 5 year's. and also against Cutting edge solutoin's.
The attentoin to detail and pure scientific way you went about you're test's.
Have shown me how my next round of test's will go.
Some time's I spend a weak on the forum's not learning anything new just cruisin.
Then I found you're post. and will reread it a few times.
 
K

kushpheen

299
0
Hey bay incredible thread, thanks for sharing all your hard work. Have you tested these results in a hydro system? Im considering using the AN line with DD's mpb system. His nutrient schedule doesn't include piranha, bud candy or carboload. Im wondering what products you think wouldn't be necessary in that kind of setup. Also, I recommend trying the cutting edge and house&garden lines if you haven't already. Drip clean, roots excelarator and algen are some of my fav products. Thanks again for taking the time to educate us all..
 

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