First DWC grow- Expert advice needed please.

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genEric

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Howdy all!

All set up and ready to grow:

I've built (2) 30 gallon bubblers with (5) 5" net pots per tote. Two more clones will be grown in a soiless mix to be used as mothers for future cuttings. No worries there- it's these newfangled fancy-schmancy bubblers that have this old grower sctratching his head!

My question(s) are as follows:

1: I'll be transplanting bare-root clones into Hydroton-filled net pots. It was suggested to me that I insert my clones into the pots/Hydroton under water to minimize damage to the roots when filling the net pots. I can handle this no problem. Is this overkill? Would I be better off handling the clones as little as possible and simply putting a layer of pellets in the bottom of the net pots, prune the clones roots if needed, hold my clones in position, and gently add the Hydroton, and drop them into the bubbler? By the way I WILL have rinsed the hydroton ahead of time to remove dust, etc...

2: Fill the net pots with Hydroton right to the top? Set the clones low, down to the first set of leaves, like one would plant a tomato plant? (I was always taught to plant 'em deep)

3: How high will I want to set my water level at first? Keep the bottom of the pots in the water and then drop my level later, when roots poke through, and then run with a 1"-2" air gap?

4: I've got a 4' 6-bulb T-5 fixture that is switchable from 2, 4, or 6 bulbs. Max light or run it a little dim for, say, the first week or so, so that the clones will put their energy into root growth rather than veg growth? Never used T-5s before- how high to hang above plants?

I'll be using Fox Farms Grow Big at 1/4 strength (500-600 ppm) until well-rooted. Will I want to use an enzyme right away or wait until I have some root mass first?

My well water is at 375ppm from the tap. I've always wondered (but never found a definitive answer) as to whether my nutrient ppm is inclusive of this number or in addition to the base ppm of ones water?

Yes I've used the search engine. I've read and read and read til my eyeballs turned red ;-) and while I'm sure these questions have been answered I can't seem to pin down the definitive answers I need. Thank you for reading and your input will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,

genEric
 
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jakesterjammin

21
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Wow, a LOT of questions, but let me see if I can shed some light on them for you..
Howdy all!

All set up and ready to grow:

I've built (2) 30 gallon bubblers with (5) 5" net pots per tote. Two more clones will be grown in a soiless mix to be used as mothers for future cuttings. No worries there- it's these newfangled fancy-schmancy bubblers that have this old grower sctratching his head!

My question(s) are as follows:

1: I'll be transplanting bare-root clones into Hydroton-filled net pots. It was suggested to me that I insert my clones into the pots/Hydroton under water to minimize damage to the roots when filling the net pots. I can handle this no problem. Is this overkill? Would I be better off handling the clones as little as possible and simply putting a layer of pellets in the bottom of the net pots, prune the clones roots if needed, hold my clones in position, and gently add the Hydroton, and drop them into the bubbler? By the way I WILL have rinsed the hydroton ahead of time to remove dust, etc...
IMO, that is an over kill...
I have always taken the clones, dug a hole in the hydroton and gently covered the roots and base of the stem...

I have never noticed any shock to my clones..

2: Fill the net pots with Hydroton right to the top? Set the clones low, down to the first set of leaves, like one would plant a tomato plant? (I was always taught to plant 'em deep)
Yes, but maybe not as deep as what it sounds like you're thinking..
I leave maybe an 1" from the hydroton to the seed cracker leaves..
Remember, you can always add some if needed...

3: How high will I want to set my water level at first? Keep the bottom of the pots in the water and then drop my level later, when roots poke through, and then run with a 1"-2" air gap?
Well when they have a root system which can reach the water/nutes, yes 1-2" from the net pot...

But when they have a small root system, you want the water a little high 1-2" into the hydroton (usually for a week to 10 days depending on strain).. By doing this it will cause the hydroton to wick up th water (to a point) to the roots which have not yet reached the water/nutes...

The main thing is we do not want the upper smaller root system to dry out.. It also helps if you can use something like a turkey baster and suck up some water/nutes and feed the top once or twice a day.. Not really totally needed, but I have always suggested it if you can...

4: I've got a 4' 6-bulb T-5 fixture that is switchable from 2, 4, or 6 bulbs. Max light or run it a little dim for, say, the first week or so, so that the clones will put their energy into root growth rather than veg growth? Never used T-5s before- how high to hang above plants?
You can get T5s pretty close to the plants...
First few day to a week I would do 10-12" just to let them get used to the light, then you can bring it down to around 6-8" and they would be fine...

If you have a fan blowing across the plants, you can get a little closer, as long as the fan comes along and sweeps away the heat the bulbs are putting out..

I'll be using Fox Farms Grow Big at 1/4 strength (500-600 ppm) until well-rooted. Will I want to use an enzyme right away or wait until I have some root mass first?
This is kind of a big debate, some ease into the full strength, some people go from 1/4-1/2 strength first week, to full strength...

Personally I do just that, I will run 400-600 the first week, then second week right to 1000ppm... BUT, this also depends on strain too...

You really want to watch the plants, mostly the serrated part of the leaves for any signs of discoloring, because nute burn will appear there first... We want to try to give the plants the most nutes they can handle, but there is a fine line there from feeding the max and over feeding...

You cannot get away with running a high ppm in a DWC as you could with say a flood and drain, because the roots set in the nutrient mix all the time.. Usually first timers, I suggest 1000-1100ppm until you get the feel for the DWC system and the strain...

My well water is at 375ppm from the tap. I've always wondered (but never found a definitive answer) as to whether my nutrient ppm is inclusive of this number or in addition to the base ppm of ones water?

Yes I've used the search engine. I've read and read and read til my eyeballs turned red ;-) and while I'm sure these questions have been answered I can't seem to pin down the definitive answers I need. Thank you for reading and your input will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,

genEric
First off, 375 is REALLY high, and I would suggest getting an RO system, your plants will be MUCH happier...

But if you can't, then yes that 375 is part of the total ppm..
So if you want to run say 1000ppm, you do not set the the res to 1375ppm.. You set it to 1000ppm and again the 375 is part of the total ppm of your soup mix...

But again, anything over 100-150, I suggest a RO system...

Hope that helps... :hi
 
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genEric

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Hope that helps??? It helps a LOT!!!

Thanks, Jakester, for taking the time to post. you answered every one of my questions and I appreciate it very much!

Yes my water is high but all the wells in this area are high. At our flowering location he's up around 420 and we've managed so in that regard I guess I'm in a little better shape oon this end. RO is in the future when budget allows. Been quite a hot spell around here and I'm bummed to see my res temp hanging around 72F. Gonna have to plumb in some cooler air from the other end os the basement to hopefully cool it down a bit. If not I'll be playing "bobbing for icepacks" for a while... Once the heatwave breaks I'll be sitting in the mid-60s down there so all will be well.

Thanks again for your great informative post. Just what the doctor ordered!

genEric
 
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jakesterjammin

21
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Hope that helps??? It helps a LOT!!!

Thanks, Jakester, for taking the time to post. you answered every one of my questions and I appreciate it very much!

Yes my water is high but all the wells in this area are high. At our flowering location he's up around 420 and we've managed so in that regard I guess I'm in a little better shape oon this end. RO is in the future when budget allows. Been quite a hot spell around here and I'm bummed to see my res temp hanging around 72F. Gonna have to plumb in some cooler air from the other end os the basement to hopefully cool it down a bit. If not I'll be playing "bobbing for icepacks" for a while... Once the heatwave breaks I'll be sitting in the mid-60s down there so all will be well.

Thanks again for your great informative post. Just what the doctor ordered!

genEric
Well I have used frozen water bottles in the res and works great for a few degrees on the hot days...

Not sure about using then freeze packs...

I always thought that if the water bottle broke the worst could happen with the water bottles, you get a little top off...

But 72 is not too bad..
Also, when I use the water bottle trick, I add a spare pump to the res, just to keep things mixed up...
It's a cheap $15 pump I keep for a backup...
 
lollipopman

lollipopman

1,211
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I wouldn't do dwc if you can't keep your water temp some what stable, just keep a close eye on your ph , also get some hydrogen peroxide near by just incase of root rot , also you will have better results if u did 1-2 plants per tote versus 5, good luck keep us posted on how it's going
 
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genEric

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I wouldn't do dwc if you can't keep your water temp some what stable, just keep a close eye on your ph , also get some hydrogen peroxide near by just incase of root rot , also you will have better results if u did 1-2 plants per tote versus 5, good luck keep us posted on how it's going

The warm temp is an anomaly- it's usually quite a bit cooler but we've had record high temps as of late. In fact my res temp has dropped one degree as of today so lets keep our fingers crossed, eh?

I've got about a week until I put the clones in so hopefully by then temps will have dropped back down to normal. If I need to babysit them for a couple weeks so be it- I'll live down there if i have to!

I hoped that using the larger totes would help keep ph stable; Easier to stabilize two larger resevoirs than ten smaller ones.

H2O2 already on hand...

The five plants per tote will only be in there for about 4 weeks. Once they've set good root, been topped once (or twice if they are thriving), bushed out and trained low and flat, they go over to my grow partner's flowering SCROG tables, and another set of cutting goes into the cloner, then into the bubblers. I'll be maintaining two mothers and vegging out ten lil bushes every half-cycle. That way I stay 100% legal and my partner does too. I'm good for 12 plants; he and his wife are good for 24, so I'll pump him ten every 30 days and he'll be running (4) 5-plant scrogs tables with two tables (10 plants) finishing roughly every 30 days.

Looks good on paper. First batch will going into the bubblers later this week. We'll see how it goes.

Thank you so much for your help!


genEric
 
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genEric

28
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Well I have used frozen water bottles in the res and works great for a few degrees on the hot days...

Not sure about using then freeze packs...

I always thought that if the water bottle broke the worst could happen with the water bottles, you get a little top off...


But 72 is not too bad..
Also, when I use the water bottle trick, I add a spare pump to the res, just to keep things mixed up...
It's a cheap $15 pump I keep for a backup...

Yeah hard telling what that blue crap is in the ice-packs. Soda bottles will be making their way into my freezer as of today.

I've got a small spare pump as well- thanks for the tip!

Greatly appreciate your help!

genEric
 
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genEric

28
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Just a follow-up regarding my high res temp:

I was using a crap thermometer. A cheap digital job. While accurate regarding air temps the wet probe is off by about 12 degrees!

I knew something was amiss when I saw my res temp climb 5 degrees above ambient room temp. I could see a VERY hot airpump slowly raising the res temp by maybe one degree but when I saw it shoot up to 76 degrees and I was standing on the same floor with bare feet and my feet were freezing I KNEW something wasn't right.

I grabbed my sling psychrometer (old-school wet and dry thremometers to measure RH. VERY accurate. ) and dunked it into my res. The result? Sitting at a cool and comfy 65 degrees.

Lesson learned: Don't trust a $14 thermometer!

And speaking of cheap thermometers. I happened to see some big glass thermometers in the dollar store. I thought that perhaps it might be good to hang one in each res. There were a dozen hanging there on the wall. EVERY one of them read differently with a High-Low difference of 15 degrees!

Lesson doubly learned: Don't even LOOK at cheap thermometers!


genEric
 
N

NoReason

50
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1: I'll be transplanting bare-root clones into Hydroton-filled net pots. It was suggested to me that I insert my clones into the pots/Hydroton under water to minimize damage to the roots when filling the net pots. I can handle this no problem. Is this overkill? Would I be better off handling the clones as little as possible and simply putting a layer of pellets in the bottom of the net pots, prune the clones roots if needed, hold my clones in position, and gently add the Hydroton, and drop them into the bubbler? By the way I WILL have rinsed the hydroton ahead of time to remove dust, etc...

I use to put a layer of hydroton, put the clone in the pot, and fill the empty space with other hydroton.Quick and easy.
However I don't like to use hydroton anymore, rockwool works great for me.


2: Fill the net pots with Hydroton right to the top? Set the clones low, down to the first set of leaves, like one would plant a tomato plant? (I was always taught to plant 'em deep)

Do what you want.Plants don't care at all, they grow in both cases

3: How high will I want to set my water level at first? Keep the bottom of the pots in the water and then drop my level later, when roots poke through, and then run with a 1"-2" air gap?

I use to not let the water touch the roots or the pots till they're well developed.A lot of air stimulate the roots to search for water.
The important thing is to not let them dry, or the plant will die.
For the first days you can add water manually from the top several times at day, or use a little water pump doing this for you.
When the roots are developed I raise the water level to the maximum height .

4: I've got a 4' 6-bulb T-5 fixture that is switchable from 2, 4, or 6 bulbs. Max light or run it a little dim for, say, the first week or so, so that the clones will put their energy into root growth rather than veg growth? Never used T-5s before- how high to hang above plants?

You can start with two and than increase, just be sure the plants get enough light.Roots grow with plenty light as well.
To know what distance from the plants the lamp should be, just use the back of the hand.If you feel hot, raise the lamp.If you feel a pleasant warmth, it's ok.

I'll be using Fox Farms Grow Big at 1/4 strength (500-600 ppm) until well-rooted. Will I want to use an enzyme right away or wait until I have some root mass first?

Use enzyme from the start, don't worry about.
Don't use them if you're using some rooting stimulator.

My well water is at 375ppm from the tap. I've always wondered (but never found a definitive answer) as to whether my nutrient ppm is inclusive of this number or in addition to the base ppm of ones water?

I didn't

Yes I've used the search engine. I've read and read and read til my eyeballs turned red ;-) and while I'm sure these questions have been answered I can't seem to pin down the definitive answers I need. Thank you for reading and your input will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,

genEric[/QUOTE]

What conversion do your meter has?
The meters usually read the value in mS\cm (EC value) and then apply a conversion, brand by brand.You should know this to know the exact value in ppm.
However tds meters are not really tds meter, as said they are ec meter with a conversion engine.Real tds meters are very expensive stuff for what I know.

Hope it helps anyhow :hi
 
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