First grow, a few questions.

[sydsix]

First off, let me say that I have been lurking and reading posts for hours on end on THCFarmer for the past few weeks and I can't get over how knowledgeable and helpful you guys are...you guys/gals :rock

Background:
So here is the deal. First time grow, for personal med use only so I'm not necessarily looking for lbs, but a good yield would be nice. I have purchased a 4'x2'x5' grow tent, two 240W Blackstar LED UV (Flowering) lights, one 4" inline fan with carbon filter, and other misc items. I am making 5 DWC buckets (5 gal) with 5" net pots (using hydroton). I plan to grow from seed, probably Kali Mist and NL. Here are my questions-

1. I am told, and have read a few places, that I can grow from seed to flower with my lights. That there is no need for T5s or CFLs, or even the HO version of the Blackstar LED for that matter. I plan on running both the lights, but would it be better to run just one for the initial veg? Is there such a thing as too much (too strong) light during veg? How high (from top) do you recommend I keep them initially?

2. I have the one 4" fan for exhaust (running through a filter), but was planning on passive intake. Will this create negative pressure? Should I put an inline fan in for intake? Should the inline fan run 24/7 or just when the lights are on?

3. For such a small tent do you think CO2 is necessary?

4. Forgive my ignorance super noob question here...I plan on using the recommend veg time from the seed provider - is it best to immediately change the light schedule and nutes to force flowering or do I need to slowly change over? I guess I'm wondering if such a "hard" change over stresses the gals?

5. I live in the OR/WA area where heat is not really an issue (good for A/C bills, bad for bikinis). I plan to have the tent in my garage. Should I be concerned over the plants getting too cold? Simply, what is the temp range I should I shoot for for Veg? Flowering? I may need to use a small heater, is that ok? I plan to light at night, so that should help with the temp a bit.

See any issues with my setup? Any other recommendations?

I plan to get another smaller tent with one 240W Blackstar LED HO (the Veg one) once I can clone one of the plants. My hope is to use the tent for perpetual mother(s). Is this possible?

Thanks for all your help. Please be gentle, I'm not as dumb as I might look, just need a bit of sage advice/guidance.

[See attachment]

 

[dankworth]

Can you return the leds and get your money back?

 

[M.S.T.]

I agree, never personaly used LED's, but from what I seen they are still experimental and not really dialed in enough for the industries open acceptance. HID's all the way!

 

[FatBoy808]

Wassup Syd.

I'll be honest... I've never run an L.E.D. setup up before, so I can't lend any solid firsthand experience, but from what I've seen it's pretty hard to get a respectable yield from L.E.D.

I've only seen 1 guy on another forum that had any success with'em, with a 90w L.E.D. he would get as much as he did with his 400w HPS. So that's actually pretty decent for 90w of L.E.D., but the stretch was pretty ridiculous, and he grew indicas, like NL, which tend to be on the shorter side.
So if you grew a sativa like Kali Mist, you might just run out of room.

You mentioned running a heater, I'd be careful because I don't think your tent would tolerate it for long periods of time.

I'm pretty much agree with dankworth, I'd try to return them if I were you.
If you're willing to live with 480w of L.E.D. you might as well get a 400w HPS, which would help in the warming department.
HIDs are easier to work with, when you take into consideration they will have less stretch, are bushier, and, in my honest opinion yield better when you consider how much space is needed.

Just my $.02 I hope this helps
Peace out.
Fats

 

[phenotyper]

I cannot tell if those are your air pumps or not on the floor, but for this type of system, you should place your pumps above the water level. that way, if your power goes out, the buckets won't drain on the floor.

I notice you have LEDs. You'd honestly be better off with a 600W Lumitek, where you can dial down the power if you need to. LEDs have been proven, but I would venture to say that you'd probably have a higher success rate by getting a HID light. FYI: Ballasts should be wall mounted, or placed on shelves at or above waist level. Don't want to get water on those things.

 

[sydsix]

I can not return them. I did get a good deal on them though - around $600 for both. I know a HID would have been better for yields, but my main drivers for LEDs are power consumption, long-term ROI, and heat. Maybe I was too quick to pull the trigger? Wouldn't be the first time.

Pheno, thanks for the tip about the pumps.

Lights aside (I know this is a hot topic, no pun intended, of debate), what about my other questions? Am I on the right track?

 

[Jellybean]

but a good yield would be nice. I have purchased a 4'x2'x5' grow tent, two 240W Blackstar LED UV (Flowering) lights, one 4" inline fan with carbon filter, and other misc items. I am making 5 DWC buckets (5 gal) with 5" net pots (using hydroton). I plan to grow from seed, probably Kali Mist and NL. Here are my questions-


[See attachment]

not trying to be a dick but this is a recipe for disaster on a 1st grow, and if if you pulled it off i dont think the yield would be much to write home about.

 

[sydsix]

Dang...now I'm discouraged. Ah well, I guess I'll have to make due.

At this point I think I'm going to roll with it and depending upon how much I suck, I might need to go back to the drawing board.

Based upon the tent config, if I were to scrap the LEDs, what else would I need? Bigger fan? AC? HID and T5?

 

[hiboy]

Rock those led's. Encouragement.
Read a couple grow logs on them here, and that might help u out
hb

 

[Jellybean]

Dang...now I'm discouraged. Ah well, I guess I'll have to make due.

At this point I think I'm going to roll with it and depending upon how much I suck, I might need to go back to the drawing board.

Based upon the tent config, if I were to scrap the LEDs, what else would I need? Bigger fan? AC? HID and T5?

:talking

sorry man, not trying to discourage you at all...and my comment wasnt based on the LEDs (actually the yield part was lol)....but mainly on the rather big DWC buckets you want to put in that small space (tell you right now HUMIDITY will be a huge issue). i have seen growers with 5 years experience of hydro/soil go down messing with DWC runs, losing time and wasting energy. if you had your heart set on DWC, just rock one or two 3 gals in there for the first time - but also experiment with maybe coco or soil for the other two or three plants, on my first run i did 3 coco 3 soil - Lucas formula - real simple and its basically idiot proof. :winking0067:

but youre right best thing you can do is roll with it, pop those first seeds or grab those first clones and force your self to take care of them. :banana1sv6:

 

[sydsix]

JB,

I thought DWC was the easy route?! Color me stupid. I really like your advice - I think I'll try 1 or 2 DWC and 1 or 2 Coco.


hiboy,

Thanks for the encouragement. At this point I'll give it a go with LEDs. Maybe next round I'll try HPS. I have read quite a few grow journals and overall it appears there are two camps and not many in between. Those who like LED and those who don't. I do realize that HPS have many pros, but to me LED has more pros for the size grow I am looking to do.

What are your thoughts about augmenting the LEDs with a CFL or two?

 

[sydsix]

:talking

sorry man, not trying to discourage you at all...and my comment wasnt based on the LEDs (actually the yield part was lol)....but mainly on the rather big DWC buckets you want to put in that small space (tell you right now HUMIDITY will be a huge issue). i have seen growers with 5 years experience of hydro/soil go down messing with DWC runs, losing time and wasting energy. if you had your heart set on DWC, just rock one or two 3 gals in there for the first time - but also experiment with maybe coco or soil for the other two or three plants, on my first run i did 3 coco 3 soil - Lucas formula - real simple and its basically idiot proof. :winking0067:

but youre right best thing you can do is roll with it, pop those first seeds or grab those first clones and force your self to take care of them. :banana1sv6:

Do you recommend smaller buckets, or to stay away from DWC altogether? I was under the impression that controlling ph and nutes is easier in 5 gal buckets; it's a little more forgiving.

I haven't made all my buckets DWC yet, can I use them for soil or coco, or again, do I need something smaller/better?

 

[Jellybean]

JB,

I thought DWC was the easy route?! Color me stupid. I really like your advice - I think I'll try 1 or 2 DWC and 1 or 2 Coco.

yeah man. just play with different mediums on your first run - i would even throw a little 3 gal of soil up in there / 2 dwc / 2 cocos in smarites / and 1 soil gal in maybe even a 2 gal - hand feeding the pot based mediums lets you tweak feeding ratios and find out what works for that strain and your style and COCO is TRUE PLUG and PLAY, you will see the results of your feed within a day...dwc is technically easy in a way i guess - but if youre playing with a semi big res tank things can go wrong REAL QUICK if you fuck ur fert ratios BASICALLY YOU GOT TO HAVE UR STRAIN DIALED IN before you go DWC...

 

[Jellybean]

on air flo i realized half way through the grow well past veg that there was NO airflow in my grow space...HAHAHAHA......i was running air from outside of the room through my lights back outside of my room, i was basically cooling my lights and pumping dust over the glass, and the plants were sitting in stale air LOL. i adjusted while i learned and still pulled major dank tho (genetics man)! :cool0019:

 

[sydsix]

i was running air from outside of the room through my lights back outside of my room, i was basically cooling my lights and pumping dust over the glass, and the plants were sitting in stale air LOL.

HA. I'm crackin' up. That shit is so funny. I could see my self doing something just like that.

 

[Jellybean]

HA. I'm crackin' up. That shit is so funny. I could see my self doing something just like that.

hahaha for real, i was to proud to ask my veteran friends to help out and ended up cooking some phenos that took a half a year to find in in recycled air....LOLOLOL oh man. :fighting0085::fighting0085::fighting0085::fighting0085:

 

[FatBoy808]

I know a HID would have been better for yields, but my main drivers for LEDs are power consumption, long-term ROI, and heat.

Wassup Syd
I'm a little confused by this statement, because you say "my main drivers for LEDs are power consumption", so correct me if I misread your first post, but you say you're going to be running 2-240w LEDs???

That's 480w, so why is an HPS not practical??? Sorry dude, I'm just confused.

I think JB mentioned running a dimmable 600w?
EDIT:^ It was Pheno that mentioned it.
That's actually a great idea, a 600w @75%= 450w, that's awesome.
Not to mention 600s have the best lumen per watt, compared to other lights.

Dang...now I'm discouraged. Ah well, I guess I'll have to make due.

At this point I think I'm going to roll with it and depending upon how much I suck, I might need to go back to the drawing board.

Based upon the tent config, if I were to scrap the LEDs, what else would I need? Bigger fan? AC? HID and T5?

I don't think you'd need a bigger fan or AC for a grow of this size. But proper plumbing & controls would be important.

I'd recommend getting a day/night plug-in thermostat and plug your exhaust fan into it, attach a carbon filter to one end of your hood, and then attach your exhaust fan to the other end of the hood, and you would also have to make a passive intake for the cool air to enter into the tent.
So you'll have fresh air whenever the room gets warm, as well as an effective cooling system.

I hope this helps.
Aloha, Fats

 

[sydsix]

Fats,

The lights are "rated" at 240w but actually only draw about 130-160w each. So I'm looking at 260-320w. Plus no need for A/C, extra fans, etc. Plus I like the idea of having two just in case one goes bad, my girls won't be completely in the dark until I can replace/fix it. I also like the idea of being a little more "green". Having to replace bulbs all the time seems like an eco-nightmare. Maybe I'm just a bit of a hippie :winking0067:

Could I use the dimmable HPS for veg and flower, or would I need something for vegging?

I'm definitely not against going for an HPS grow, but since I can't return the lights I'm going to "give it the old college try" this time and try HPS next time around...once the sticker shock from everything wears off ;)

Thanks for the day/night plug-in thermostat recommendation. That seems like a great idea.

I will be keeping and sharing a grow journal for you kind folks to see/laugh at/evaluate.

 

[sydsix]

Fats,

Off topic. I saw the pic of your Halawa Hash where you are holding up the coke can...holy shit that thing is friggin christmas tree! Nice work.

 

[FatBoy808]

Fats,

The lights are "rated" at 240w but actually only draw about 130-160w each. So I'm looking at 260-320w. Plus no need for A/C, extra fans, etc. Plus I like the idea of having two just in case one goes bad, my girls won't be completely in the dark until I can replace/fix it. I also like the idea of being a little more "green". Having to replace bulbs all the time seems like an eco-nightmare. Maybe I'm just a bit of a hippie :winking0067:

Nothin wrong with be'in green bro
I think LEDs have a lot of potential, but it just seems a little impractical.
I know it's rare for an LED to go bad, but imagine a few of those little guys went out, good luck changing those.
By the way, I think your idea for side lighting with a T5 is a good idea...
From the LED grows that I've seen, it seems as though the lights induce a lot of stretch, and I don't know if the LEDs will penetrate that far below the canopy, so some side lighting may be helpful.
Also be careful with the Kali.
I'd recommend leaving enough room beside the plant to tie her down just in case.
Or super-crop as needed, but she'll still bush out.
Just my $.02

Could I use the dimmable HPS for veg and flower, or would I need something for vegging?

I've heard of guys using the HPS for veg, but I personally don't, nor am I against it, but I'm very happy with my T5 fixture. I feel it's just as good as my 400w MH. Less heat, more energy efficient, less complicated, cheaper...

I'm definitely not against going for an HPS grow, but since I can't return the lights I'm going to "give it the old college try" this time and try HPS next time around...once the sticker shock from everything wears off ;)

I don't think the sticker shock wears off, it just gets worse.

Thanks for the day/night plug-in thermostat recommendation. That seems like a great idea.

I will be keeping and sharing a grow journal for you kind folks to see/laugh at/evaluate.

I'm subbed

Fats,

Off topic. I saw the pic of your Halawa Hash where you are holding up the coke can...holy shit that thing is friggin christmas tree! Nice work.

Mahalo for the compliments, that was in soil, that's what I'm into. But I'm gonna give hydro a try some time this year. I wouldn't be too concerned about using the bubble buckets, but 5 of them on your first go around may be a daunting task. Just make sure you get a good ppm/pH meter. And I'd hook them all together, and run one separate bucket outside of the tent to top off & measure, you may need a small pump just to circulate the solution.
Aloha, Fats