First time Cloning, used Hormex, Almost roots, wierd! Help plz..

[KersD]

So I tried cloning for my first time using Liquid Hormex for rooting compound, into 2" rockwool cubes.. I've been told this straing "SFV OG" is kinda hard to clone, and it definetely is a finicky strain to grow so I believe it. Anyway, I used about 0.4 EC G.H. FloraBloom, but I added a pinch of Mg/So4 (epsom) cuz I believed the plants were a lil deficient when I took the cuts, and just a bit of Hormex so total EC was just above 0.5 & Ph 5.6. The Grodan cubes I got say they only need a 10 sec. soak, but I soaked them for about half an hour tops. I've heard so many times they need a 24 hour soak to correct the Ph, but i checked it after the cubes had sat for 30 min and it was still 5.6 so I figured I was good. I only had 2 cuts so it was a small container with just 2 cubes soaking. I cut at a 45 degree then did a half-ass lil scoring towards the bottom then just as directions say I soaked the bottom in straight Hormex for Over 1 min. (They say 1 min). and there was even 2 nodes on the bottom of one of em! This is where I think I fucked up, I for some reason forgot what I've seen and been told 100 times and used the hole in the middle instead of poking a new hole with the cut.. I stuck em down in good and tore a lil chunk of each one to fill it in a bit, but it is very possible that some O2 was getting in there... After just a week I thought they were already rooted cuz I shook em just a bit and they were obviously anchored into the block, Kept them in a humidity dome on a heat pad, but the pad is just a regular heating pad so I wasn't able to run it all the time, I would turn it on every once in awhile and then turn it back off after cuz it would get too warm. Other than that it was about 75F-77F and I took the hood off once a day cuz there's no holes in it. So Now 3 weeks later after still seeing NO roots out the bottom I pulled em and was extremely surprised at what I saw!!
Check this out, I hope someone knows why this happened and can help me..

Obviously they tried to root, But something went wrong! Below is the other one

They never turned yellow or wilted, its like they actually were pulling in nutes from these Nubs somehow cuz even after 3 weeks the bigger lower leaves were falling but NO wilt, AND it honestly looked like there was new growth on both of them!! Although it was hard to tell.. Here's some more pics from a lil further away. If ANYONE has any advice I really need it, cuz my Mom plant is more than ready for quite a few cuts, and I need to get some of em to root...

Here's the other one from further, New growth and still plenty green and ALIVE

Any Advice Is very much appreciated Thank you in Advance..

 

[KersD]

Totally forgot to mention ANOTHER fuck up on my part.. After a week or so, cant remember exactly when, But I had my plants in the same space as the clones and changed to 18/6 photoperiod instead of 24 straight. Lighting was 4-2ft T5 bulbs staggered spectrum 6500K & 4100K, but the clones were off to the side out of the straight light in the beginning and I moved them closer with at least One bulb directly above the dome.

 

[stickyfing3rs]

id say they probably didn't root because of the .4 ec, I've never cloned using rw cubes but all I've ever done or heard of is no nutes whatsoever until they are rooted. i would just ph the straight water you soak the cubes in next time.

 

[KersD]

Ok so this is what it looks like just before the roots actually start to grow.. so what could be the reason they didnt ever actually grow? Maybe cuz I left them in the dome the whole time, possibly keeping them in an environment where they could survive the way they were as opposed to keep pushing the roots out? OR maybe its a combination of that and putting some kind of water or soaked perlite under the cubes so the roots search down for it?? anyone?

id say they probably didn't root because of the .4 ec, I've never cloned using rw cubes but all I've ever done or heard of is no nutes whatsoever until they are rooted. i would just ph the straight water you soak the cubes in next time.

I know its good to have Phosphorous in the solution for root formation, but thanks for the advice.

 

[PaperStreet]

Put it ina cup of water just enuff to cover the root bumps..
Its not at all unusual for a cut to take that long to root especially taken in flower i see lil budsites on that cut..
I feed my cuts directly from my mom res can be all the way up too 1400 ppm at times so i dont think its that at all..
U need to let ur medium dry out a bit between waterings. Makes those roots grow and search for food etc..
So many variables hope that helps..

 

[KersD]

Put it ina cup of water just enuff to cover the root bumps..
Its not at all unusual for a cut to take that long to root especially taken in flower

First of all I would probably NEVER take a cut from a flowering plant, unless circumstances demanded it.

i see lil budsites on that cut..

I was like WTF?!?! really?? so I looked at the pics and I see how it looks like budsites, what you're seeing is a few small tops trying to grow, and she's fully mature so she's prolly throwin pre-flowers..

I feed my cuts directly from my mom res can be all the way up too 1400 ppm at times so i dont think its that at all.. U need to let ur medium dry out a bit between waterings. Makes those roots grow and search for food etc.. So many variables hope that helps..

I explain how I prepared my solution for the rockwool in the beginning, after that I did NO waterings except for opening the dome about once a day and foliar spraying clean water.I think my problem was leaving the dome on for the entire 3 weeks with no holes in it.. I'm thinking that I should start taking the dome off for decent periods of time each day after the first week so the cubes dry a bit, Maybe run either 1/4" water in the bottom so the roots will search down, or I think it might be easier and cleaner to just put down a layer of wet perlite under the cubes. Thanks for the reply tho PaperStreet, I really appreciate you trying to help me thru my "issues" LOL.. What do you think about that tho??

 

[PaperStreet]

Yea i seen it wasnt a flowering cut after i made the post in one of the pix it does look like lil budsites tho..

Honestly idk why its brown on the stem is that mold or something where the root bumps are?

That cut looks healthy nevertheless i still say since u have root bumps the roots should grow, its really not at all out of the ordinary for a cut to take 3 weeks to root.

Do u think maybe your being a little impatient? Try takeing new cuts and see if they root faster?

Im on your side KersD i think u care enough to be a very successful grower i think maybe overcareing just a bit much, something i can also be blamed for at times.
What ive noticed with clones tho is these plants will pretty much root themselves given enuff time and just bare minimal oppurtunity. Your cut looks fine i think u would have seen roots in a few more days..
Perhaps stick it back in your medium and wait another week since u been messing with it.

 

[PaperStreet]

Also i clone in a dome and leave my vents cracked.... Yes sufficient air movement is neccesary or your air will stagnate.

And yes maybe overwater is your issue.. When i used wool with bigger cubes just one good soak or drench and then a quick shake to get the excess water out was usually sufficient enuff water to root a clone entirety. I guess u could water around the base of the cut with 5-10 ml a day if u have to or it dries out before the cut roots..

U def do not want your cuts sitting in water in medium. The medium will stagnate becuz of insufficient air movement. It needs to dry and be refreshed with new water when dries..

Have u tried rapid rooters? They are much easier to root with.

 

[Mr.Sputnik]

For rockwool the best thing I have found is the Bontone rooting powder at Home Depot, it has a purple top. Works like a champ, is cheap, you can avoid the grow store, and you probably have something laying around the house you can return and get it for free.

My best results from Hormex come from the 2nd technique on the bottle. Don't dip the clones directly into the hormone solution, that's why you get that weird bumping and swelling. Mix about 5ml of Hormex into a pint glass or party cup and fill it up about an inch or two with water. Take your cuttings and let them soak in the water/hormex mix for at least an hour or up to overnight. Water with about 2ml per gallon of hormex or mix the hormex left in the cup into your watering solution like I do, I just throw what's left into my clone machine. You can then place your cuttings into whatever medium you desire. I like to use a very weak grow and humate solution for best results, about 1/8 strength of what you would normally use on a vegging plant.

 

[Aligee]

I would say you let them soak in hormex a tad too long, that stuff is super potent! but it works like a mofo!

 

[Greenjean]

Your on the right path, and I think your clones will root out just fine.

I always pour some Hormex into a shot glass and let the cuttings sit for about 15 min. I then just dunk my RW cube in a bowl of water and a drop or 2 of Hormex. I always turn the cube over and only stick into solid RW. Ya gotta be careful not to break then clone. Just insert nice and easy, take it slow :) I never use the pre-made hole. It seems as though the clone always flops around. I believe the security of it being tight in the RW helps the new roots take hold.

Also I sometimes get clones to root out in 10 days, and in the past it has taken about 3 weeks. Its all about your environmental conditions.

 

[KersD]

For rockwool the best thing I have found is the Bontone rooting powder at Home Depot, it has a purple top. Works like a champ, is cheap, you can avoid the grow store, and you probably have something laying around the house you can return and get it for free.

My best results from Hormex come from the 2nd technique on the bottle. Don't dip the clones directly into the hormone solution, that's why you get that weird bumping and swelling. Mix about 5ml of Hormex into a pint glass or party cup and fill it up about an inch or two with water. Take your cuttings and let them soak in the water/hormex mix for at least an hour or up to overnight. Water with about 2ml per gallon of hormex or mix the hormex left in the cup into your watering solution like I do, I just throw what's left into my clone machine. You can then place your cuttings into whatever medium you desire. I like to use a very weak grow and humate solution for best results, about 1/8 strength of what you would normally use on a vegging plant.

Thanks alot for the info man, i put this up a long time ago and I knew there was something to it.. Im sure you're right cuz of what "AliGee" said too right afterwards, I soaked em for over a min probably almost 2 min in straight Hormex. I didnt realize it worked that well since everyone is on Clonex Gel. But Im definetely gonna grab a bottle of that Bontone Powder and compare next time when I do some, then I'll know I dont have to spend the $ on hormex again if it works just as well. Its funny you say I probably have somethin laying around i can return and get it for "free", cuz I have 2 bags full of shit thats waiting to get returned for only store credit anyway! LOL. Thanks again tho I really appreciate this cuz Im sure you're correct.

 

[Mr.Sputnik]

Oh don't use the hole in the cube like Greeenjean said, flip it over and use the bottom or put it next to the hole (offset) so it's nice and tight. I also like to use 2 trays, one with holes and one without so you can soak the cubes and then lift the tray with the holes out and drain the remaining solution the cubes don't soak up from the tray without the holes in it. that way the cubes don't get too wet.

 

[Urbngrnthmb]

Looks like the cubes were too wet. I've had that issue before and what I've found is less is more when it comes to cloning. First off dont ever let your mother get stressed. Ever. It seems to show up in her cuts from what ive seen. And take cuts a day after watering with food. Thos will give the cuts nourishment during the 2-3 weeks of no food. I ph ro water to 5.8 and place the cubes in the tray. Then pour about a half gallon of that water evenly over the top of all the cubes. Then take the cuts with a sterilized razor blade and place them straight into a large bowl of that ro water. The faster the better. Over 5 seconds of air exposure most likely will kill the cut due to air in the stem. I then make a 45 degree cut just below a node(make this cut in the bowl under the water) and give one side of the cut a light scrape with the blade to thin the skin and place straight into your rooting hormone. I use dip n grow measured for hard woods and it's the only hormone I've seen 100% success. Runner up to that is clonex with very high success rate. Give em about 5 min to soak in the dip n grow. If you use clonex no need to let it sit since its a gel. After the hormone they gently go into the rockwool. Never use the hole that is in the center. Make a new hole just to the side of it with the cut and push it about 3/4 of the way down. After you've taken all your babies cut any large leaves in half. Then mist your dome and the cuts with ro water and close any vents. I use a heating may for faster results and a 2 foot t-5 single bulb about 6 inches from the top of the dome and on 24 hrs. Open daily for about 10 min to let them breathe. I only mist them once. The moisture in the cubes create enough humidity to keep them happy. Too much foliar spraying will actually keep the cuts from rooting. If they are getting enough water through the leaves the roots won't search for it. After a week I open the vents and leave the dome off for about 20 min a day. This is when you need to start feeling the weight of the tray. It will start to get lighter as days go by. Mod way through week 2 you should need to give em about a quart of ro water with half strength cal mag. At the 2 week mark check a couple cubes for roots at the bottom. When you see roots showing pull the dome and lower the light a lil at a time over a couple days and bam! 2.5 weeks from cut to planting with sfv and larry for me and I lose no more than 2 cuts if any since discovering this method. And my pre 98 bubs has been 100% success for over a year and is ready to plant in 1.5-2 weeks tops. Still fine tuning for faster rooting time but hey that's what this is about. Always trying to better ourselves. Good luck!

 

[capegrower]

too much water...plants are lazy and will only make long roots if they are forced to reach for water. let the cubes become almost dry before rewatering.

 

[KersD]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the info and I know you guys are correct too. I've had to stop all operations until further notice that Its safe, but Im still studying daily.. Really wished I could have gotten thru at least one flowering at least or get one clone to root at least, but yeah I was misting them daily and the cubes just stayed saturated the whole time so Obviously without a squeeze they had more than enough water in them. Had I only misted the first day and took the dome off for longer everyday a week in or so I bet they would have dried out and those little nubs would have turned into some roots and gone looking for more water. Makes perfect sense. So whenever I get shit crackin' again Im gonna get it done for sure cuz I was on the right track just one of those things you kinda gotta learn with experience. Thanks again Everyone for your help.

 

[Hormex]

KersD... I sent you a private message. If you are getting back into things please let us know.

 

[CocoCola]

I've had that same problem and it took me almost a year to realize why my cutting were taking so long to root, while producing un precedented amounts of calluses. My research and testing proved it was my hormone.

NAA (the main ingredient in hormex solution and few other products) causes callus formation in cannabis. It doesn't do this in all plants. For ex roses respond well to NAA as a rooting hormone. Cannabis, on the oherhand, responds best to IBA.

I got this information from a couple sources, but most important soruce was micropropagation studies of cannabis done by the Univ or Mississippi.

Anyhow, w/o getting too long winded, research shows cannabis forms callouses best with NAA and root formation is best initiated with IBA. Cannabis is also does what's called "direct organogenesis", meaning they product root directly from cambian, rather than indirect where the tissue must differentiate to callus first, then differentiate from callus to roots. This latter process is called indirect organogenesis.

Anyhow, hormex isn't a bad company, but you'd want to stick with their rooting hormones. Some say their No. 8 (which is 0.8% iba) is best.

I've converted to Clonex packets b/c they're convenient and I know I'm using fresh hormonee each time. Rootech is the strongest IBA gel I've found on the market, at 0.55% IBA. Clonex is 0.3%.

Moral of the story: ensure your hormone has IBA and NO NAA! :)

 

[Canalchemist]

I had cuttings root in my worm bin by accident, worms ate everything but the new roots, I opened the lid and saw a couple small plants growing out of pure ewc, with only a few air holes for light.

This kind of accidental cloning says one thing to me, IMHO all this extra shit we do to clone cannabis isn't really required. I have 100% success all the time using peat pellets soaked in water straight out of my tap with the cheap roots rooting hormone from the reno store. with in 2 weeks I have clones, I know this is not ideal for some that want clones faster. But some handy scheduling will eliminate the need for clones fast.

 

[CocoCola]

C.Alchemy, I agree, simplicity works great.

I just wanted to point out that if you're adding NAA to your cuttings, the plant will focus on making callouses and not roots. The guy who started this thread AND myself would have been better off using nothing; instead when we grabbed the average hormone off of our stores' shelf, we were the (un)lucky ones who landed the NAA-based hormones and that caused callouses instead of roots...and until that NAA was removed by changing my cloner (or in his case changing his rockwool w/ IBA or nothing) we were not going to see prolific root development.

That's the whole dialogue in this thread, and no one seems to have answered the problem. I AM: NAA causes callouses! ...not roots. (PERIOD)

Canalchemist, YES, doing NO hormones would have been better in this situation b/c NAA has been shown to produce PROLIFIC callouses for up to 30 days....that's over 4 weeks w/o root formation....then when transferred to IBA they'll begin root formation (per studies and my experience).

Still, using a proper hormone at the proper concentration for Cannabis is the best way to go.

Luckily, most rooting hormones are IBA. Like the "Roots" hormone you're talking about. It's 0.1% IBA. But there are stronger hormones, like I said before. Powders go up to 0.8% IBA, Rootech is 0.55%, Clonex 0.3% etc.