First Time Indoor Grow 3k Sq Ft

WestsideCali · Jul 4, 2016

Okay so I took some photos of 3 different plants. I will also post this to the infirmiry section but wanted to post on here also for support. We adjusted the temperate in the room, however unfortunately the from of the room To the back have a 5 degree diffference. So the front of the room is set to 83 degrees and the back is around89. The c02 is set to stay within 1200-1500 during light hours and is off during the night. The humidity of the room is around 45% (does it need to be higher?) Spider mites are reduced however stil visible. I will hit the plants again with nukem tomorrow which will be 3 days after the pyrethrum fogged was set off. The leaves are droopy and new growth looks good but existing leaves are yellowish. Today we gave them only RO mixed with h202, sls100 and cal mag. If someone has a simplified feeding schedule we would love to hear it.

WestsideCali · Jul 4, 2016

MSH said:
https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/forums/cannabis-infirmary.57/

This is the infirmary, post pictures there including environment description etc and you will most likely get help fixing your problem.

Take pictures while lights are off or take a plant outside the room and take pictures of it there so it's not under the HPS lights.

https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/plants-look-droopy-and-yellowish.82726/

Spectre · Jul 4, 2016

I know you don't want to hear it and it's a tough decision but you may want to scrap this batch and start fresh. It's gonna be a disappointing harvest otherwise. This strain is already a low yielder, even in good conditions. You've passed the initial budding stage and it's gonna take weeks for them to bounce back, plus you still have mites. Sometimes you just have to accept the loss and start over. I know the feeling trust me.

WestsideCali · Jul 4, 2016

Spectre said:
I know you don't want to hear it and it's a tough decision but you may want to scrap this batch and start fresh. It's gonna be a disappointing harvest otherwise. This strain is already a low yielder, even in good conditions. You've passed the initial budding stage and it's gonna take weeks for them to bounce back, plus you still have mites. Sometimes you just have to accept the loss and start over. I know the feeling trust me.

We're gonna try to finish this yield. I underatand what your saying but the mites are drastically reduced. With than in mind does it look like we've been over watering? The coco is always dry on top inch and then moist from that point down in the pots. How dry do we want the coco before are watering them again? Do you water daily or every other day? We see good roots in the pots.

Herb Forester · Jul 4, 2016

Spectre said:
I know you don't want to hear it and it's a tough decision but you may want to scrap this batch and start fresh. It's gonna be a disappointing harvest otherwise. This strain is already a low yielder, even in good conditions. You've passed the initial budding stage and it's gonna take weeks for them to bounce back, plus you still have mites. Sometimes you just have to accept the loss and start over. I know the feeling trust me.

I'm [not?] surprised it took 43 posts for someone to say this??? I would have scrapped the room after seeing the first closeup pic. You are chasing bad money with good, extending your suffering and making it worse. With something of this scale you cannot afford to spin wheels and waste all your energy on remedial work, things will fall apart quickly (already have). Those plants are way too sick to produce anything worthwhile for the rest of their life, and all the attention in the world won't get them on track. Hell I cull weaker clones just for lack of vigor compared to the pack - yours are almost dead. And if the mites are only 'reduced' then be ready for complete annihilation at the end (if those plants can even grow flowers at this point). You guys fucked up big time, and now you have the option to make it worse or reset. If I was interviewing this place for consultation, my requirement to help would be start over with new cuts or no deal.

Spectre · Jul 4, 2016

Herb is being blunt about it but he's right. Don't be offended either we're here to help. This is the best advice. You probably won't even cover the costs of this cycle with the harvest you'll get from those plants, not to mention the pain in the ass to even get rid of it. You're only a couple weeks in so it's not a total loss. You must start with clean healthy clones or you won't get far. At that point we can help you with every step and you're pretty much guaranteed a good harvest if you follow good advice.

WestsideCali · Jul 4, 2016

Spectre said:
Herb is being blunt about it but he's right. Don't be offended either we're here to help. This is the best advice. You probably won't even cover the costs of this cycle with the harvest you'll get from those plants, not to mention the pain in the ass to even get rid of it. You're only a couple weeks in so it's not a total loss. You must start with clean healthy clones or you won't get far. At that point we can help you with every step and you're pretty much guaranteed a good harvest if you follow good advice.

I don't get offended I have a thick skin. I never take for granted the knowledge that others have to share. I should be more clear and maybe that's my fault. We started treating the mites again last week and they've been reduced by about 75%. Isn't that to be expected since the eggs won't die with nukem? No webs or anything crazy just a few stragglers. Hopefully a couple more hits and they will be eradicated. In regards to the enviornment what do you recommend is best and easiest to maintain in regards to temp, rh and c02. We don't pay electric directly. My agreement is a set amount with landlord so i don't save by not having lights on. Even if I buy teens they wouldn't be ready for weeks to turn back. But what I'm gonna do is go with blue dream for the next couple rounds. It was a major mistake I made in the first place but you live and learn. I see nice buds developing now so I would be shocked if you think we won't yield at all? Even like a pound a light? Do you have any advice to atleast get us to that number? Hopefully that's not out of reach.

noone88 · Jul 5, 2016

I would recommend that you take it to harvest; it is the best way to learn. However, when you are selling the product, there are some moral & ethical issues which I don't want to touch hah.

Your plants are calmag deficient, but it might be from stress. The stress is from the mites, the temperature, and possibly root rot. It is hard to isolate the problem since you have multiple things going on at once. The temperature is too high for OGs (in my experience, if you're growing OGs, room temp should be about 78 degrees).

Your humidity is low, but that would not cause the leaf problems that you have. Higher humidity is something you should strive for in optimal grow room conditions and you're far from that.

I would continue to spray your room with azamax. Spray every 3-5 days. Even if you don't see eggs or webs, they are still there. I don't have experience with Nuke'em.

Feed with 150% strength calmag and see if it clears up your issues. You should be using 20% more A and B since you are using DE fixtures. I would feed like this: Full strength, full strength, flush, repeat.

WestsideCali · Jul 5, 2016

noone88 said:
I would recommend that you take it to harvest; it is the best way to learn. However, when you are selling the product, there are some moral & ethical issues which I don't want to touch hah.

Your plants are calmag deficient, but it might be from stress. The stress is from the mites, the temperature, and possibly root rot. It is hard to isolate the problem since you have multiple things going on at once. The temperature is too high for OGs (in my experience, if you're growing OGs, room temp should be about 78 degrees).

Your humidity is low, but that would not cause the leaf problems that you have. Higher humidity is something you should strive for in optimal grow room conditions and you're far from that.

I would continue to spray your room with azamax. Spray every 3-5 days. Even if you don't see eggs or webs, they are still there. I don't have experience with Nuke'em.

Feed with 150% strength calmag and see if it clears up your issues. You should be using 20% more A and B since you are using DE fixtures. I would feed like this: Full strength, full strength, flush, repeat.

Someone else said it was a calmag def also so we upped that in our last feeding. We saw some immediate positive response the following days. The shop I use said nukem can be used all the way until about the last week or so unlike azamax. is that valid? We can see a lot of healthy white roots all over the bottom, side and even top of pot. We don't see any discolored or slimy roots and we checked many of them however we did not actually pull one completely out to look. Would you recommend it? Feed. Feed. RO. Feed. Feed. RO. I like that.

Because we have high c02 we were advised higher temperatures (85) so they would absorb faster. But We've heard humidity is very low so should we just throw like a humidifier or two in the room? What do we want to get it to in regards to RH?

In regards to unloading I'm less concerned about that and more concerned about learning. And when I say less concerned hopefully that hints at the end of the road for these without needing too many details about the end result.

Thank you!

Spectre · Jul 5, 2016

Is your room sealed? This chart shows the ideal ranges you should be shooting for. The orange is where you want to be.

Also you need to stop overfeeding and stick to a basic feeding schedule (maybe just calmag, bud a&b) and learn how to correctly measure EC and ppm. Don't ever feed just RO either. You should be feeding with every watering.

WestsideCali · Jul 6, 2016

Spectre said:
Is your room sealed? This chart shows the ideal ranges you should be shooting for. The orange is where you want to be.

View attachment 613802

Also you need to stop overfeeding and stick to a basic feeding schedule (maybe just calmag, bud a&b) and learn how to correctly measure EC and ppm. Don't ever feed just RO either. You should be feeding with every watering.

Looks like I'll pick up a humidifier tomorrow. Any other techniques you use to raise RH? Buckets, wet floors etc?

Herb Forester · Jul 6, 2016

Thick skin will be useful, mine is like plate armor at this point. For now I'd focus more on environment, and less on chasing mysterious nutritional problems. Fog that room to at least 70-75% and keep the air temperature below 80F until you know how healthier plants react. Those VPD charts need to be applied to leaf temperature and not just the air (learn at what points your pants respire, note the dif between leafs and air). Also get your watering dialed so the roots aren't starved for oxygen or too dry (one of the hardest things to get perfect for soil, little easier with coco).

If you end up keeping these plants a while for academic purposes, foliar nutrition will likely be more effective than trying to feed through the roots (until the root system can start recovering, if that's even possible now). In their current state, they probably can't take much either way prior to a period of stress relief (lower light intensity, more downtime). I'll also second the earlier recommendation to get yourself some solid mothers vegging, for a perpetual supply of cuts and no bullshit from other farmers with bad IPM. Make 3-4 times as many as you need in the beginning and select only the best performers for flowering or mom duty. Throw away more starts than you grow and get it to where your cloning method is second nature (hydro cloners are good for this and save work).

Also fyi 'Cal-mag' is mostly calcium nitrate with a little mag nitrate, so better to think of it as N-Cal if you need a hyphenated name. When stores tell you to use this they are really just saying "feed the plant more salt, because we don't really understand what's in these bottles anyway". If you're stuck using these type of products, at least know they're like half of a 'base nute' mix - just extra N, Ca, and some Mg, without the P and K.

noone88 · Jul 7, 2016

I don't want to add conflicting advice, but personally, I would skip adjusting the humidity. I consider it one of the last factors and depending on your area, it is hard to keep humidity at the right levels. Your relative humidity isn't *bad*, but it isn't ideal either.

You have a lot of other things you need to focus on first. Controlling your mites and IPM is priority. Your rooms are too hot. Lastly, getting familiar with how to water your plants is something farmers develop by feel. It takes years to master. You have to find out how dry the pot/medium can get without the plant wilting and also how heavy the pot is when it is saturated with water. Then you want to be between those 2 points at all times. The plants will drink more or less depending on what week of flower you are in. Slowly in the first 2 weeks, drinks heavy week 4-6, and slows down again at the end. Again, this is all by feel and experience. No book or internet forum can teach you how to water correctly.

Herb Forester · Jul 7, 2016

Agreed that high-humidity isn't the end all, but it sure makes life easier when battling stress and mites. Also I find applying high intensity light during veg is much more forgiving in a jungle type climate. When it's time to turn the foggers off, lights get dimmed too. Another hint that could be very useful, my daytime air temps are usually around 75 yet the leaves are at 82-84 (walls even hotter).

WestsideCali · Jul 8, 2016

noone88 said:
I don't want to add conflicting advice, but personally, I would skip adjusting the humidity. I consider it one of the last factors and depending on your area, it is hard to keep humidity at the right levels. Your relative humidity isn't *bad*, but it isn't ideal either.

You have a lot of other things you need to focus on first. Controlling your mites and IPM is priority. Your rooms are too hot. Lastly, getting familiar with how to water your plants is something farmers develop by feel. It takes years to master. You have to find out how dry the pot/medium can get without the plant wilting and also how heavy the pot is when it is saturated with water. Then you want to be between those 2 points at all times. The plants will drink more or less depending on what week of flower you are in. Slowly in the first 2 weeks, drinks heavy week 4-6, and slows down again at the end. Again, this is all by feel and experience. No book or internet forum can teach you how to water correctly.

I'm glad to report that the mites are gone! The two heavy hits of nukem and pyrethrum tr digger seemed to do the trick. I will continue to apply nukem light dosage weekly as a precaution. My AC units are great in that room so I can adjust if required. I set them to 78 recently down from the 82 they were at. Is that a good number? Watering and nutes and reading the plants....it's tough. Yellow leaves can be from hundreds of things so hopefully they will get stronger as my education builds.

noone88 · Jul 8, 2016

There is conflicting advice when it comes to CO2 temps.

To be safe safe safe (and you don't have the VPD anyways), keep the leaf temp at 76-78F. You need to read the leaf temp with a temp gun.

Good to read that you have the mites under control. They are never gone. Always spray. During summer, we spray every 5 days. Winter time you can get by with every 7 days. Rotate products; azamax is safe.

Herb Forester · Jul 15, 2016

I agree, lower temps for stress relief (to be clear my last post refers to beast mode with ~1200ppm CO2). Leafs are almost always hotter than you'd think. And 88 is also right about those eggs, always just waiting to hatch unless you keep up good IPM and break the cycle over time. Learning how they reproduce and their life stages will help you be more effective with your treatments.

ink · Jul 15, 2016

dont give up, good luck

ink · Jul 15, 2016

i do think you can get away with a simpler feeding chart.

you can buy a straight macro salt
calcium nitrate
peter bloom
and so on

lot less cost as well

Mike Hancho · Jul 19, 2016

Someone suggested it earlier, dunking the plants in a mild neem oil and soap mixture. As long as your not to far into flower. And I agrer for stress relief temps would need to be lowered. It's my opinion but I would cut way back on the feeding.

First Time Indoor Grow 3k Sq Ft

First Time Indoor Grow 3k Sq Ft

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