Fogponics. As good or better than Hydro?

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Aqua Man

Aqua Man

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Just a few thoughts to this that somehow just spontaneously occurred to me - no idea why just now, have read this over half a day ago 😌


From a botanical point of view, I would not suspect any influence.
When topping, the auxin distribution changes and the plant is deprived of the highest shoot, which would grow the strongest with normal auxin distribution.
If you shorten the roots, it has no effect on the hormones that I know of. If there are any, I strongly suspect that they are very different from the above reaction.
All you are doing is reducing the amount of water, nutrients and oxygen that the plant can take up/utilize.
One gardening tip I know is that when transplanting plants, you should compensate for the resulting root loss by cutting back above the roots so that the root mass returns to match the leaf mass and transpiration area.
My guess would be that you're just putting the plant under unnecessary stress and thereby limiting its growth in the short term.
There are studies that show it does effect the auxins and growth, water and nutrient usage and stress can be beneficial depending on the type and time. Crop steering is a real thing.
 
beluga

beluga

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Just a few thoughts to this that somehow just spontaneously occurred to me - no idea why just now, have read this over half a day ago 😌


From a botanical point of view, I would not suspect any influence.
When topping, the auxin distribution changes and the plant is deprived of the highest shoot, which would grow the strongest with normal auxin distribution.
If you shorten the roots, it has no effect on the hormones that I know of. If there are any, I strongly suspect that they are very different from the above reaction.
All you are doing is reducing the amount of water, nutrients and oxygen that the plant can take up/utilize.
One gardening tip I know is that when transplanting plants, you should compensate for the resulting root loss by cutting back above the roots so that the root mass returns to match the leaf mass and transpiration area.
My guess would be that you're just putting the plant under unnecessary stress and thereby limiting its growth in the short term.
In the studies I've just been reading, there was no significant loss to yield of fruits whose trees received a moderate early root pruning. The fruit did result in more sugars and vitamin levels and reduced pesticide levels. There is a lot to unfold in the practice of root pruning and, while I don't think it's something people need to be playing with just yet, I do think it's something that can benefit people. Reduced plant size with the same yield sounds pretty spectacular to me. Also if your water-and-nutrient-use efficiency is up, you're saving lots of money if you put it on a large scale.
 
Aqua Man

Aqua Man

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In the studies I've just been reading, there was no significant loss to yield of fruits whose trees received a moderate early root pruning. The fruit did result in more sugars and vitamin levels and reduced pesticide levels. There is a lot to unfold in the practice of root pruning and, while I don't think it's something people need to be playing with just yet, I do think it's something that can benefit people. Reduced plant size with the same yield sounds pretty spectacular to me. Also if your water-and-nutrient-use efficiency is up, you're saving lots of money if you put it on a large scale.
Yeah id say its one of those things like topping…. Not always beneficial but it CAN be for the right reasons and circumstances
 
Moe.Red

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So if there ever is a geek like me that tries to do some form of fogponics, here is some pertinent info:

Timers:

const int FogInterval = 30000; // number of millisecs between fog cycles
const int ResFanInterval = 10000; // number of millisecs between Res Fan cycles
const int PowerHeadInterval = 10000; // number of millisecs between PowerHead cycles

const int FogDuration = 20000;
const int ResFanDuration = 30000;
const int PowerHeadDuration = 10000;

This results in 80.1*F in the res, holding about 10 gallons, and using a 5 disk ultrasonic fogger.
I have upped the res fan and lowered fog on and fog duration to accomplish a 20*F drop in res temps.

Here is the result:

1D774D80 952C 4496 9217 D4069878C4FC

F832B754 BB49 455D 8B85 9545DC3A3889

0E9FF0D6 0EE8 4EBE AB4E 9449094C27AD


The seed went into this pot on September 13. So this is day 8 from germination.\

The 2 most vital parts to making this possible is the res fan and the software timing control. You would never find an appropriate off the shelf device to control to this level. I even looked into smart switches and stuff, the shear amount of on / off kills any of those options.
 
beluga

beluga

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I have upped the res fan and lowered fog on and fog duration to accomplish a 20*F drop in res temps.

Do you think you'd see similar results with fewer atomizer disks, longer on intervals? I imagine your way is better for the life of those disks even if so.
 
Moe.Red

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Do you think you'd see similar results with fewer atomizer disks, longer on intervals? I imagine your way is better for the life of those disks even if so.
I have a 1 disk version here that does not adequately cover when on 100%.
I have a 3 disk that I think I could make work by adjusting these timings more. I probably will do that after these seedlings get moved.

For the larger totes tho - I think a 5 is better. My plan is to wet them hard at startup or whenever I exit maintenance mode. Then drop down to these lower timings to abate heat. It's my feeling that just keeping everything with a film of water in an O2 rich environment is enough. Constantly drenching them is not needed. If they need a higher nute ratio because I'm fogging less, I'll quickly see that and adjust.

So 5 allows me the power to flood the whole res, and then back off. 1900ml/hr on the 5 disk. 1500ml/hr on the 3 disk. With a smaller res you could probably do 3.


That's what I am using, essentially 2x4' and 55 gals. 4 fit nicely in a 4x8 tent. The gemination res is only 27 Gal.
 
Anthem

Anthem

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So I'm at an impasse. I have a res temp of 90.1*F. That is because of the ultrasonic fogger. They put out a fair amount of wasted heat. The thing is, the plants look great and a couple are already showing roots out the bottom.

Trying to come up with a clever design to run the chiller in the res, not because the plants say they need it but because I'm worried that if I cannot control this better, I am asking for trouble down the road.

anybody ever try a wort chiller in a res?


View attachment 1282799
Moe I once worked at a restaurant that could not get cold water to a soda machine I believe. The soda company basically provide a wort chiller under the bed of ice used for the soda. Thing worked like a champ so yes you can do this. Better for the chiller as well because no salts running thru the chiller.
 
Moe.Red

Moe.Red

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Moe I once worked at a restaurant that could not get cold water to a soda machine I believe. The soda company basically provide a wort chiller under the bed of ice used for the soda. Thing worked like a champ so yes you can do this. Better for the chiller as well because no salts running thru the chiller.
So I ended up with (2) 120MM radiators made for PCs and a wort chiller. I'll run one res with nothing to see if there is a difference. I think I would be OK with no cooling with the high O2 now that the temps are way down. When I first started I was over 100*F.
 
N1ghtL1ght

N1ghtL1ght

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@Moe.Red
something like this maybe?
Spectrum Emerson

so I can see the ratios, monochromatics used etc of the full SPD (all chs at 100%)
 
N1ghtL1ght

N1ghtL1ght

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1. the distribution between 400 and 700nm has no influence on cannabinoids in their studies.
There's multiple research by Fluence in their studies of LED vs HPS spec that the LED had a few percentages higher cannabinoid levels.
The spectral power breakdown and comparison reveils that HPS is heavily lacking the blue colour, with LED having 300% of it.
Physiologically the blue wavelengths are sensed by cryptochrome & phototropins, and these bluelight-receptors also absorb strongly UVA light. The stimulation of these also show strong photomorphogenic effects - down to the root tips.

One could argue that the blue-light effect also stems from an inverse-dilution effect when the whole photomorphology grows rather stocky, and dense.
 
Moe.Red

Moe.Red

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So this is what supercharging beneficial organisms looks like at my place. I feel that this process of working with nature rather than killing everything (H2O2) results in a superior grow.

The setup (RO water)

D1CB88FC 4380 4B28 A548 068AF81A1B60


E8744A7C 6716 44FA B7EC ACD38FA51781

3D65F5E5 6364 4FA5 A37F 4D0CBFAAB504


Then top dress

E302EACA BF6A 4FAA 8DE1 D10CD27610E6


And the rest goes in the res

CD0AA914 D64F 4454 AFE9 1E4A00885BE8
 
Aqua Man

Aqua Man

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Jay13.aka.DutchStuff

Jay13.aka.DutchStuff

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Hi guys, just a little hint: Avoid such liquid products when it comes to bennies.
Dried products are clearly superior in quality and more robust when it comes to bacteria and fungi.
In many cases a few years ago, one has bought only water from the well-known manufacturers.

Avoid


I would also suspect that the many of the AM fungi are of no benefit. However, I am currently working on my benni sheet and will soon be able to give you more detailed information.
 
Moe.Red

Moe.Red

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Hi guys, just a little hint: Avoid such liquid products when it comes to bennies.
Dried products are clearly superior in quality and more robust when it comes to bacteria and fungi.
In many cases a few years ago, one has bought only water from the well-known manufacturers.

View attachment 1285069

I would also suspect that the many of the AM fungi are of no benefit. However, I am currently working on my benni sheet and will soon be able to give you more detailed information.
I wish I could show it to you but I can see significant life under my microscope. My digital scope is not powerful enough to see them.
 
Jay13.aka.DutchStuff

Jay13.aka.DutchStuff

22
13
I'd really like to see that - not because I don't believe you - but rather because I'd like to look at the stuff under the microscope myself now - just to know what all that stuff there looks like ☺️

As I said, I can get a lots of inspiration from you - I need a much better microscope 🙂
 

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