Fogponics. As good or better than Hydro?

Observationist · Sep 12, 2022

Moe.Red said:
So what I am trying to accomplish here is to maximize growth rates and plant vigor. It's my feeling that Fogponics done correctly may just be the best possible system.

The theory is that you have an atomized mist of water, nutrients, beneficial bacteria, enzymes, and beneficial fungi along with a near O2 saturation root zone, the plants have everything they need at all times. As long as I get the nutes right that is.

There is a positive pressure in the res, which pushes the nute / O2 laden air up thru the coco coir.

Other grow setpoints are maintained with typical methods - temp, RH, light - etc.

I'll be tracking things like Dissolved O2 and atmospheric O2 along with all the other normal setpoints. I should be able to set a VPD and the system maintains it.

I'll also be measuring cannabinoids and other important stuff, reporting back as well.

Should be an interesting grow. If you are a geek like me anyhow.

I’ve been waiting for someone on here to do all this as it’s my end game idea, combined with electroculture.

ritoMox · Sep 12, 2022

Aqua Man said:
Ever run a humidifier with tap water? It will cover everything in minerals once dried

My swamp cooler pads speak your language

ritoMox · Sep 12, 2022

Moe.Red said:
The theory is that you have an atomized mist of water, nutrients, beneficial bacteria, enzymes, and beneficial fungi along with a near O2 saturation root zone, the plants have everything they need at all times. As long as I get the nutes right that is.

So would this be considered ORGANIC Fogponics?

Observationist · Sep 12, 2022

Aqua Man said:
Ever run a humidifier with tap water? It will cover everything in minerals once dried

Don’t let it dry up lol

Observationist · Sep 12, 2022

ritoMox said:
So would this be considered organic Fogponics?

I think organic would be microbes breaking down the food, strictly (?)

ritoMox · Sep 12, 2022

Observationist said:
I think organic would be microbes breaking down the food, strictly (?)

Beats me. Definitely following along! Open sourcing this kind of tech is def a game-changer

Moe.Red · Sep 12, 2022

Madmax said:
How big is the flower tent.how many plants you running and how long a veg so i can compare to similar basic grows and watts used..

I have 2 4x8x8s. Both CO2 injected. One has 8 plant sites, the other 2. I'll try to tabulate the data in a way that makes sense at the end.

Moe.Red · Sep 12, 2022

ritoMox said:
So would this be considered ORGANIC Fogponics?

No, not in my definition. To me, organics means naturally derived nutrients that require other organisms to break down further so the plant can use them.

The nutes I am using are directly available for uptake without any help.

It will be a live system tho.

Moe.Red · Sep 13, 2022

Cumon babies, you can do it!

Madmax · Sep 13, 2022

When they do that to me i will just plant them and 99% of the time they will come up..

Moe.Red · Sep 13, 2022

Madmax said:
When they do that to me i will just plant them and 99% of the time they will come up..

Yup Yup. I have 4 of them in coco this morning. Will wait for the others to pop to plant. Crossing fingers, I really want to hang on to these genetics. It would be my luck that the ones that pop are all male.

beluga · Sep 13, 2022

Moe.Red said:
Yup Yup. I have 4 of them in coco this morning. Will wait for the others to pop to plant. Crossing fingers, I really want to hang on to these genetics. It would be my luck that the ones that pop are all male.

Hey, sperm is genetics, too

On board for this one.
Fog has always been at the back of my mind.
For my purpose, it seems like the medium/method that could really maximize space efficiency with tailor-made delivery systems etc. I'd assume with an ideal air/water/nutrient saturation, you could probably get away with much smaller/more effective rootzones, too.

Moe.Red · Sep 13, 2022

I have seen tons of failure posts out there in different places, people who tried and got sub par results. But I don't think they put as much thought or controls into it, and just tried to run it like standard hydro.

One of the big things is figuring out the nutes. It is not the same. So in my flower tent, I have 4 separate res'es with 4 separate feed systems. This way I can test different nute mixtures on clones where all other parameters are the same. Hoping to get this nailed down and figured out on the first grow, but that may be optimistic. Anyhow, I'll post the failures with the successes and you decide.

Bluebuddha · Sep 13, 2022

If you could measure time to absorbtion/root saturation in realtime, you could lower tds/ppm. Then your input would reach equilibrium with the other env variables.

That would be something.

Moe.Red · Sep 13, 2022

Bluebuddha said:
If you could measure time to absorbtion/root saturation in realtime, you could lower tds/ppm. Then your input would reach equilibrium with the other env variables.

That would be something.

Not sure I am understanding

time to absorbtion/root saturation in realtime

Are you saying measure how fast a water molecule moves thru the roots? I believe the roots will be approaching 100% saturation continually with this system. Better than typical hydro because the micron range droplets move thru the media as well. I can actually see the fog coming up thru the coco.

EDIT: Welcome to the farm too.

Bluebuddha · Sep 13, 2022

Moe.Red said:
Not sure I am understanding

time to absorbtion/root saturation in realtime

Are you saying measure how fast a water molecule moves thru the roots? I believe the roots will be approaching 100% saturation continually with this system. Better than typical hydro because the micron range droplets move thru the media as well. I can actually see the fog coming up thru the coco.

EDIT: Welcome to the farm too.

Thanks. I was thinking more of being able to monitor internal nutrient uptake. Thinking ec between micron sized probes at various points along the plant.

"Better than typical hydro because the micron range droplets move thru the media as well. I can actually see the fog coming up thru the coco."

I would bet that you're right. With the right temp and if possible pressure, the amount of nutrients and water could be turned into a supersaturated, oxygen fused solution.

Like an artificial womb..

beluga · Sep 13, 2022

Wouldn't nutrient uptake rate be indicated by some simple ppm/tds/ec monitoring of the nutrient solution?
I imagine the hard part is going to be getting all the systems to a baseline more so than responding to the uptake.

Bluebuddha · Sep 13, 2022

beluga said:
Wouldn't nutrient uptake rate be indicated by some simple ppm/tds/ec monitoring of the nutrient solution?
I imagine the hard part is going to be getting all the systems to a baseline more so than responding to the uptake.

Great point. Also, I knew it was too good of an idea to not have been thought of before.

(PDF) Real-Time Monitoring of Electroconductivity in Plants

Real-Time Monitoring of Electroconductivity in Plants With Microscale Needle Probes by Eunyong JEON, Sangwoong BAEK, Seungyul CHOI, Kyoung Sub PARK,

research.amanote.com

I went down a rabbit hole...

Moe.Red · Sep 13, 2022

I love the ideas here.

My thought is this - With Fogponics, you are blasting water with nutes into the air. That water needs to hit the roots at the proper TDS / ratios. So the water that the fogger is in needs to be correct.

Unlike a RDWC who's roots are constantly in a shared water supply, all of them slowly dropping PPM, fogponics is more of a direct route - the water around the fogger is what is put on the roots. From that perspective, I should not be able to measure PPMs falling. This constantly correct nute mixture is a feature of this system, and should eliminate PH issues as well.

The only way I would see PPM falling as measured in the res with the fogger is if the water collects on the roots, the roots use some of the nutes, then droplets of lower PPM water fall back into the res from the roots. To counter this, I am using a small tub inside the res that holds just enough water and nutes to supply the fogger. This will be in the center of the big black totes, not directly under the roots.

I'm thinking that theoretically I should be able to change my nute ratios in the 10G glass aquariums you see there which feed these smaller tubs thru a float valve, and the new nute ratio will be at the fogger within a couple hours. This should allow me very precise control over nute delivery.

I may end up with drips from the roots and internal surfaces collecting in the big black totes, and I'll deal with that when I see how much. Could be run directly to the drain, or if it is a lot I can look at some form of recycling.

Rabbit hole indeed.

Moe.Red · Sep 13, 2022

I'll also say it is my expectation that the PPM of the nutes in this system will be less than half what I run in RDWC.

Fogponics. As good or better than Hydro?

Fogponics. As good or better than Hydro?

Observationist

ritoMox

ritoMox

Observationist

Observationist

ritoMox

Moe.Red

Moe.Red

Moe.Red

Madmax

Moe.Red

beluga

Moe.Red

Bluebuddha

Moe.Red

Bluebuddha

beluga

Bluebuddha

(PDF) Real-Time Monitoring of Electroconductivity in Plants

Moe.Red

Moe.Red

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