Fogponics. As good or better than Hydro?

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Moe.Red

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Great point. Also, I knew it was too good of an idea to not have been thought of before.


I went down a rabbit hole...
For some reason I cannot see the PDF. Is this like researchgate where you need credentials to see everything?
 
Moe.Red

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What's the reason behind that expectation?
Because the water volume needs to stay high to allow for proper respiration.

In a given day, a plant needs X salts and X liters of water to be optimal. It is my belief that because there is no water supply constantly washing away salts, I need to deliver the correct ratios for a system that uses all the input and does not recycle.

With RDWC, there are more salts in the water than the plant can use given the volume of water they are in. For Fog, I think I need to match that perfectly, meaning lower PPM.

I could be wrong. That's why I have 4 separate systems. I'll run one at normal RDWC levels, and the others lower. Nute burn should make my theory obviously correct, or disprove it pretty quick.

Edit

It's kinda like CO2. You can photosynthesize fine at 400PPM - plants have been doing that for millennia. But we inject CO2 to make it more available and give a boost to the plant because it looks for those molecules less. We do the same with Hydro - we put in more salts than the plant actually needs in a given volume of water. I don't think that is a good plan for fog.
 
beluga

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Because the water volume needs to stay high to allow for proper respiration.

In a given day, a plant needs X salts and X liters of water to be optimal. It is my belief that because there is no water supply constantly washing away salts, I need to deliver the correct ratios for a system that uses all the input and does not recycle.

With RDWC, there are more salts in the water than the plant can use given the volume of water they are in. For Fog, I think I need to match that perfectly, meaning lower PPM.

I could be wrong. That's why I have 4 separate systems. I'll run one at normal RDWC levels, and the others lower. Nute burn should make my theory obviously correct, or disprove it pretty quick.
That makes sense.
I suppose my logic went more the way of needing higher PPMs because the plant doesn't have a constant availability like when dipped into their nutrient solution.
I wonder, too, how the added oxygen/air exchange and water droplet-size will effect it.
And further yet, how root responses will come into play... it's my understanding that they're able to secrete a myriad of organic molecules as responses to whatever stimuli.

Sorry, got my head in the clouds. Good stuff!
 
Moe.Red

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That makes sense.
I suppose my logic went more the way of needing higher PPMs because the plant doesn't have a constant availability like when dipped into their nutrient solution.
I wonder, too, how the added oxygen/air exchange and water droplet-size will effect it.
And further yet, how root responses will come into play... it's my understanding that they're able to secrete a myriad of organic molecules as responses to whatever stimuli.

Sorry, got my head in the clouds. Good stuff!
I know right! I love this puzzle.

Maybe I'll find I have to spray the roots from time to time to wash off exudates. What I can tell you is I'll do whatever I have to and learn, then engineer whatever is required to automate that process. Probably real time. I can prototype pretty damn quick.

"If everything seems in control, you are not moving fast enough." - Mario Andretti
 
Moe.Red

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Maybe a hybrid system?
Fog for the nutrient delivery; sprayers set to periodically clean the pipes?
Just to, you know, add more moving parts.
If that's what it takes!

I already have the parts on hand for a full aeroponics system. I was originally going to do this system that way. Spraying the roots and sending the result down the drain will not be difficult if it becomes necessary.

At some point tho, I am adding complexity and unless the result is worth it, I may be wasting time.

Really, what I want to see is 2X growth rate over soil with all other conditions the same. If it turns out to be 1.1X, I'm wasting time.
 
Bluebuddha

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Maybe a hybrid system?
Fog for the nutrient delivery; sprayers set to periodically clean the pipes?
Just to, you know, add more moving parts.
That's what I was thinking.

Also, the difference in ppm/tds/ec from fog source vs what's dropped in the bottom of the res could, over time, give you plot points of uptake during growth phases.

With some ML, you could probably take that and apply it over full grow. A feedback loop set at if A=x% of B then do this(action).

Hope this works.


I think that lnk should work.
 
Moe.Red

Moe.Red

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That's what I was thinking.

Also, the difference in ppm/tds/ec from fog source vs what's dropped in the bottom of the res could, over time, give you plot points of uptake during growth phases.

With some ML, you could probably take that and apply it over full grow. A feedback loop set at if A=x% of B then do this(action).

Hope this works.


I think that lnk should work.
Interesting Idea.

I'm sorry I still can't see it. When I go to the link I get a blank editor page, no info. I'll try to find it elsewhere tonight.
 
Moe.Red

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That's what I was thinking.

Also, the difference in ppm/tds/ec from fog source vs what's dropped in the bottom of the res could, over time, give you plot points of uptake during growth phases.

With some ML, you could probably take that and apply it over full grow. A feedback loop set at if A=x% of B then do this(action).

Hope this works.


I think that lnk should work.
Found it here


Reading now.

EDIT: Holy Shit

Micro needle


@Aqua Man you seeing this shit? I'm sure I could do that if you could help me interpret.
 
Moe.Red

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Oh I like that
Often the reverse is true for me.

"Speed is irrelevant if you are going in the wrong direction." -Mahatma Gandhi.


But, the universe leans towards reward for those who act over that of inaction - moe.red I'd rather do something, even if wrong, than nothing. I'll take another lump from the school of hard knocks if I have to in order to get to the next level. Chicks dig scars.

I haven't hurt myself yet, so there's that. Been a while since I have felt 120V, I'm probably due.
 
Bluebuddha

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Ever see the mouse breathing under water/liquid?


Perfluorocarbon-based oxygen carriers: from physics to physiology....


Therefore, the molecular ratio of dissolved O2 is 1 O2:200water in water, but 5 O2:1PFD in PFD, resulting in a 1000× increased molecular solubility for PFD compared to water


Infuse perfluorocarbon with O2 turn into fog and you'd have a fog cloud with 5:1 O2.
 
Moe.Red

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Ever see the mouse breathing under water/liquid?


Perfluorocarbon-based oxygen carriers: from physics to physiology....


Therefore, the molecular ratio of dissolved O2 is 1 O2:200water in water, but 5 O2:1PFD in PFD, resulting in a 1000× increased molecular solubility for PFD compared to water


Infuse perfluorocarbon with O2 turn into fog and you'd have a fog cloud with 5:1 O2.
Man where did you come from? I gotta hear the backstory. You are just full of crazy ideas. We might need to figure out how to bottle that so you can share.

I finally got my settings where I want them. Being able to dial this grow in to this level is what I was hoping for. I’m going to learn so much here.

 
Moe.Red

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nice 😍 wonderi if that last one might pop in a day or 2
I think it is a dud but still trying.

So this weekend I get that AC control box sorted then get the new system mounted and probes in the tank and tent. We will see what's happening with O2 and everything else.

I gotta tell you, I love this setup. Pushing 90% O2 vapor thru that coco? I've never seen anything like that done before.
 
Aqua Man

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I think it is a dud but still trying.

So this weekend I get that AC control box sorted then get the new system mounted and probes in the tank and tent. We will see what's happening with O2 and everything else.

I gotta tell you, I love this setup. Pushing 90% O2 vapor thru that coco? I've never seen anything like that done before.
Yeah im PUMPED… see how i spelt that this time… lol. Thisbis going to be far more exciting that the usual hydro grows.
 

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