Foliar spraying after nutrient lockout

[mrfreeze682]

your interested in guides for liquid nutes but considering gaia green. im confused.

yea i know, im doing the soil stuff because im scaredon liquid because alot of vids and ppl says more is less with liquid and that you need to supplement with cal-mag and well alot of other stuff im still learning. my goal is to have a eb n flow system with liquid nutes so it can be autonomous because i own my own business and sometimes cant feed when necessary. Sooo… im doing the super soil stuff with worm casting kelp bone seashell , yea im in unknown territory but its fun. id love to learn about liquid nutes but like i said, im scared to mess up my plants :(

 

[mrfreeze682]

Tune into @Shaded_One's thread. He's done outstanding with the gaia green method.

One thing though. Coco and super soil are not anywhere close to the same thing. Coco lacks nutrients and requires feeding where super soil (done right) is "water only" as everything is supposed to already be in the organic rich soil mix. Choose one or the other but don't attempt to combine them into one method. Coco is coco and should not be treated as soil. Both can give excellent results so one isn't clearly better than the other. They simply are not interchangeable. They are not the same.

wow…. this is news to me and well noted thanks! i didnt know coco and soil werent the same medium… i know im a little slow lol

 

[MIGrampaUSA]

turning the intensity and temperature down is good for foliar but not so much if he/she is experiencing waterlogged soil and is trying to dry it out. remember overwatering and high ec is much more damaging than underwatering with low ec. coming back from underwatering is instant. let them dry out and dont worry too much about the nutrition uptake for only a few day maybe 2-3 depending on the soil and gradually start watering/ feeding as per label instructions soon after. maybe starting out with a lower ec feed and check run off..
then again i dont water till runoff, ever. unless i really high and get distracted

Not true. Air flow is the secret weapon for drying out saturated soil indoors. RH is your worst enemy so doing anything that raises RH during lights off is bluntly put .. a no-no.

The foliar feed puts the nutrients the leaves need right to the source. That part you've gotten right. Just no to misting plants during lights off time. It should not be done ... not even outdoors in my opinion.

 

[GreenGalaxyFarm]

I lowered light intensity as soon as i flushed the water to help them recover faster from the lockout.I am currently waiting on water to dry out to give them their first feed.

remember there will most likely be some nutrient value to the soil even after flushing, you could go with pure h20 or 1/4, 1/2 dose and test runoff to get idea of where you are at. maybe you need flush again, maybe you can go to full strength to determine this you will need to run some tests.

The temperature is adjusted with a heater.I have led lights (300w) that do not produce much heat anyway.Any tips for drying out the soil faster?

the soil should have been added to sufficient aeration in the mixing stage. but lifting your pots to not sit directly on saucer would be step one.

 

[MIGrampaUSA]

I lowered light intensity as soon as i flushed the water to help them recover faster from the lockout.I am currently waiting on water to dry out to give them their first feed.The temperature is adjusted with a heater.I have led lights (300w) that do not produce much heat anyway.Any tips for drying out the soil faster?

Air flow air flow air flow.

Air flow is the secret to drying things out. Heat helps so does keeping your environment variables in the right range ... keep those leaves dancing in the wind 24/7.

 

[GreenGalaxyFarm]

yea i know, im doing the soil stuff because im scaredon liquid because alot of vids and ppl says more is less with liquid and that you need to supplement with cal-mag and well alot of other stuff im still learning.

no need to be scared of liquid nutes, there is simply too much misinformation out their on most topics but none so more than organic dry soil vs salt/mineral based liquid nutrients. you will find that salt/mineral based nutrients offer you more control if thats a consideration.

my goal is to have a eb n flow system with liquid nutes so it can be autonomous because i own my own business and sometimes cant feed when necessary. Sooo… im doing the super soil stuff with worm casting kelp bone seashell , yea im in unknown territory but its fun. id love to learn about liquid nutes but like i said, im scared to mess up my plants :(

i would continue my research into mineral based nutrients, theres really nothing to worry about other than overdoing it. with adequate science backed information on the matter you will be able to tell for yourself what will work for you, both could it comes down to preference. and substrate/medium.

 

[GreenGalaxyFarm]

Not true.

ive taken the time to link you to the first results of a google search.

When is the best time to foliar feed my plants?

First of all, I would like to thank you for such a great question relating to the article:

www.maximumyield.com

this is the guy who wrote it: Rich Hamilton, has been in the hydroponics industry for more than 20 years..

if you need articles from scientific journals ill look them up for you.

 

[MIGrampaUSA]

no need to be scared of liquid nutes, there is simply too much misinformation out their on most topics but none so more than organic dry soil vs salt/mineral based liquid nutrients. you will find that salt/mineral based nutrients offer you more control if thats a consideration.

i would continue my research into mineral based nutrients, theres really nothing to worry about other than overdoing it. with adequate science backed information on the matter you will be able to tell for yourself what will work for you, both could it comes down to preference. and substrate.

Here's my experience ...

Outdoors, organic amendments and/or aerated nutrient teas like "Roots Organic" absolutely rock.

Indoors, synthetics are much easier. Hats off to indoor organic farmers that can crank out grow after grow without issues. I'm not that grower indoors, at least not yet. Outdoors? I run organic almost exclusively and without issues.

 

[MIGrampaUSA]

ive taken the time to link you to the first results of a google search.

When is the best time to foliar feed my plants?

First of all, I would like to thank you for such a great question relating to the article:

www.maximumyield.com

this is the guy who wrote it: Rich Hamilton, has been in the hydroponics industry for more than 20 years, working originally as a general manager in a hydroponics retail outlet before becoming an account manager at Century Growsystems. He enjoys working on a daily basis with shop owners, manufacturers, distributors, and end users to develop premium products.

if you need articles from scientific journals ill look them up for you.

Dude, go ahead and drench your girls after lights are off. You can find out the hard way why this is not ideal with cannabis plants. How do I know this? From experience ... Ever deal with WPM issues indoors?

I get it that Maximum yield is telling you to do something. I am telling you from personal experience that their guidance is only half correct. Turn down your lights to their lowest levels. Spray and allow the greenery to dry. Return the light to its proper intensity. A few days later, mist with distilled water.

YES, if the light is too high, it can bake nutrients into the leaves or the water droplets can act as little magnifying glasses. That is true, but turning your lights way down corrects that issue.

Spraying when your lights are off means your RH is going to remain high until lights come back on and the heat drives the RH down again. I've seen you encourage growers to drop their temps into the 60's to encourage fall color fades. You start dropping your temps into the 60's AND misting your plants, you're encouraging mold/mildew issues to form. WPM spores are everywhere. They only need a spike in humidity and a chance to grab onto some greenery and from then on you're in a battle because once started, reducing humidity has almost zero impact on controlling it.

Best practice is during lights on with dialed back intensity. Most experienced indoor growers will tell you this.

 

[GreenGalaxyFarm]

I've seen you encourage growers to drop their temps into the 60's to encourage fall color fades.

not me, 60 is too low imo. night time drops to 65-75 encourages enough in terms of expressing anthocyanins in plants that have the genes to do so. that said ive run clones now for a month, swithcing them out as they root and keeping the dome packed with new cuts. spraying them on occassion and keeping the dome at 99%, 30 days no pm.

 

[MIGrampaUSA]

not me, 60 is too low imo. 65-75 encourages enough in term of expressings anthocyanins in plants that have the genes to do so. that said ive run clones now for a month, swithcing them out as they root and keeping the dome packed with new cuts. spraying them on occassion and keeping the dome at 99%, 30 days no pm.

Temperatures below 72F are ideal for mold/mildew so anything in that range between 65 and 72 mixed with RH above mid 50's mid flower on is wildly encouraging to mold/mildew issues. So yes, you have been promoting many "no-go's" that experienced indoor growers would not be promoting.

Sorry to call you out, but ...

It's like you've done some reading and are instantly an expert. Where's the experience? I'm not seeing it in your posts. Experienced growers don't soak their buds at night.

 

[GreenGalaxyFarm]

Temperatures below 72F are ideal for mold/mildew so anything in that range between 65 and 72 mixed with RH above mid 50's mid flower on is wildly encouraging to mold/mildew issues. So yes, you have been promoting many "no-go's" that experienced indoor growers would not be promoting.

Sorry to call you out, but ...

It's like you've done some reading and are instantly an expert. Where's the experience? I'm not seeing it in your posts. Experienced growers don't soak their buds at night.

im only talking about the 65-75 with regards to assisting plants in expressing traits only, done this in response to you saying ive told 'many' people to drop to 60's. which i dont, im not even concerned with expressing purple in plants at all so why would i go around and tell others to do so. im telling you youre confusing me with someone else, from what you said further, your confusing me with being a noob to growing as well. im also now confused why we are talking about soaking buds...i dont spray anything on buds.(this is now the 2nd time ive had to explain this to people)
in addition to to the soaking of buds we are also now discussing RH levels in flower of a hypothetical grow? i dont see any buds on OP plants. considering the variables of hypothetical situations seem unnecessary here is it will lead to further confusion.

in conclusion to wpm, there are many things you can do to eradicate to spores long before they become an issue.

 

[GreenGalaxyFarm]

wow…. this is news to me and well noted thanks! i didnt know coco and soil werent the same medium… i know im a little slow lol

coco really is only that, soil however can be many things depending on what you choose to add to it. coco often being a base ingredient of a good soil recipe. not knowing stuff doesnt make you slow my brother we are all here to learn

 

[MIGrampaUSA]

im only talking about the 65-75 with regards to assisting plants in expressing traits only, done this in response to you saying ive told 'many' people to drop to 60's. which i dont, im not even concerned with expressing purple in plants at all so why would i go around and tell others to do so. im telling you youre confusing me with someone else, from what you said further, your confusing me with being a noob to growing as well. im also now confused why we are talking about soaking buds...i dont spray anything on buds.(this is now the 2nd time ive had to explain this to people)

It really doesn't matter whether they have started budding or not since fungal issues can set in at any time.

You're recommending foliar spray after dark/lights out and those temps in the range between 65f and 72 are plenty enough to drive this issue. You can and you will eventually deal with a fungal related issue indoors using this practice. Why am I so animate about avoiding this? It's no minor issue to resolve and can show its ugly head grow after grow after an initial infestation indoors ...

 

[GreenGalaxyFarm]

It really doesn't matter whether they have started budding or not since fungal issues can set in at any time.

You're recommending foliar spray after dark/lights out and those temps in the range between 65f and 72 are plenty enough to drive this issue.

brother you are testing my patience with your confusion, nowhere have i told him to run 65-75f, again and for the last time, you mentioned me giving advice to people to run in the 60's i told you already it wasnt me. and gave my opinion on those temp by saying they are useful in expressing traits.

You can and you will eventually deal with a fungal related issue indoors using this practice. Why am I so animate about avoiding this? It's no minor issue to resolve and can show its ugly head grow after grow after an initial infestation indoors ...

pwm is not fun and could cost you to cull a room quick. ill advice to read into how to control it before its shows its ugly head in your grow space.

 

[MIGrampaUSA]

brother you are testing my patience with your confusion, nowhere have i told him to run 65-75f, again and for the last time, you mentioned me giving advice to people to run in the 60's i told you already it wasnt me. and gave my opinion on those temp by saying they are useful in expressing traits.

pwm is not fun and could cost you to cull a room quick. ill advice to read into how to control it before its ugle shows it head in your grow space.

Air flow, keeping your humidity levels under control and your temps above 72f at night. If you do that, I doubt you ever have to deal with it.

I agree that lower temps will help show some of these color traits. I grew a beautiful GDP a few years back by dropping my temps at night. This was indoors and prior to a WPM infestation. Since I dealt with the WPM, I turn my furnace UP at night so temps never fall below 70 in the grow area. I've also got lots of oscillating fans running to keep my air moving 24/7.

WPM indoors will scar you for life ... its nightmare, ptsd invoking issue to the indoor cannabis grower.

 

[GreenGalaxyFarm]

WPM indoors will scar you for life ... its nightmare, ptsd invoking issue to the indoor cannabis grower.

especially if it got your only plants and need to start over.
if you are truly concerned invest in an air purifier that is sufficient for your space

 

[MIGrampaUSA]

especially if it got your only plants and need to start over.
if you are truly concerned invest in an air purifier that is sufficient for your space

I got one of those in there too. It might sound like an answer and I'm sure it helps but the best help is advice that doesn't set up a chain reaction of events to avoid a negative outcome. So going full circle, best practice regardless of what Maximum Yield magazine is stating ... don't foliar feed during dark hours.

Why? Because you can control the output of your lights so there's no light damage to the leaf surface. You can receive the absolutely undeniable good benefit of foliar feeding without spiking your humidity during those dangerous dark hours.

 

[GreenGalaxyFarm]

Meteorological condition favouring foliar applications
Time of Day:
Late evening; after 6:00 p.m.
Early morning; before 9:00 a.m.
Temperature:
Low temperature 18-19C (Ideal 21C)
Humidity: Greater than 70 % relative humidity
Wind speed: less than 5 mp

science is recommending foliar at night, this is not a me thing. i do foliar at night for the purpose of providing auxins to mothers days leading up to taking cuttings..again i dont spray buds, my soil is sorted out by now and i feed the soil directly

from: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/323879672_FOLIAR_FERTILIZATION_OF_NUTRIENTS

 

[MIGrampaUSA]

Meteorological condition favouring foliar applications
Time of Day:

Late evening; after 6:00 p.m.
Early morning; before 9:00 a.m.
Temperature:

Low temperature 18-19C (Ideal 21C)
Humidity: Greater than 70 % relative humidity
Wind speed: less than 5 mp

from: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/323879672_FOLIAR_FERTILIZATION_OF_NUTRIENTS

Outdoors, absolutely ... I would agree with that.

Indoors, you can mimic that by turning your lights down at "early morning" or "early evening" hours. This gives the time for the vegetation to dry prior to being plunged into darkness.