For you folks obsessed with humidity, some valuable information MUST READ!

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jimmyhoffa59

jimmyhoffa59

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Alright guys so I read this really interesting article in the January 2011 edition of USA Maximum Yield. I am going to Paste from the website the entire article because I think it will be of great value to the community here and especially since I see so many people freaking out about humidity above 50%. The numerical values did not paste over correctly so for reference you can find the chart here:

Enjoy:

"With indoor gardens our focus for optimizing growth is often light, warmth and just the right mix of nutrients, but humidity, or more specifically vapor pressure deficit (VPD), is sometimes overlooked. While relative humidity is fairly easy to measure with sensors or meters in the plant canopy, it's difficult to know exactly what to aim for and how to adjust levels�and what exactly does it all mean for the plants? High humidity gets the blame for all sorts of scourges and nasty disease outbreaks, while low humidity may mistakenly be held accountable for anything that looks like burning, drying, shriveling or bleaching. However, the issues of humidity and VPD in the growing environment are a little more complex, both in terms of plant growth and disease or growth disorders. To complicate matters further, different levels of humidity and VPD are appropriate for different plant species�from dry atmosphere cactus to wet, steaming tropicals.
What is relative humidity (RH) and vapor pressure deficit (VPD)?

Relative humidity is the most commonly used measure of how much water vapor is held in the air and it’s something most of us are familiar with, as we all know how uncomfortable hot, steamy air can be. 100 per cent relative humidity is extremely humid, while a humidity reading of only 50 per cent represents a dry environment, but what these values don’t tell us is how much water is actually being held in the air, unless the temperature is also given. This is because cold air holds much less water vapor than hot air. For example, air at 50oF can hold 9.4 grams of water vapor per 35 cubic feet, while air at 86oF can hold three times as much, up to a maximum of 30.4 grams per 35 cubic feet. This has some implications for growers as it’s not just a simple case of aiming for one `ideal’ relative humidity value, since the effect of humidity on plants also depends on temperature. As a rough guide, the table below is used by greenhouse growers of many fruiting and vegetable crops and shows the relationship between temperature and humidity levels.
Temperature °F

Minimum ideal RH
(fog or wet down)

Ideal RH

Maximum RH
(to prevent disease)
59

-

50 per cent

73 per cent
68

46 per cent

64 per cent

80 per cent
77

60 per cent

73 per cent

86 per cent
86

70 per cent

80 per cent

89 per cent



The problem with using relative humidity is that it’s hard to set one optimum RH value, particularly when temperatures tend to vary between day and night and often throughout a 24 hour period. For this reason many growers prefer to use vapor pressure deficit (VPD) as a more accurate measure of the water vapor content of the air and how this affects plant growth.

VPD is the difference (or deficit) between the amount of moisture in the air at the current time and how much moisture the air can hold when it is saturated. Saturated air will condense out to form dew or condensation and leaf wetness, which in turn can lead to rot and a higher occurrence of certain disease pathogens. So while plants don’t want an overly dry atmosphere (high VPD), which sucks the moisture from the foliage, they also don’t want a wet environment (low VPD), which slows transpiration and can lead to an increase in disease outbreaks. VPD is typically expressed in the units kPa (kilopascals) with the range for most plants being 0.45 kPa to 1.25 kPa, with the optimum being around 0.85 kPa. Most indoor gardens are best run at 0.8 to 0.95 kPa for healthy mature plants, with cuttings needing a more humid environment in the lower VPD ranges. What is important is that unlike relative humidity, the VPD range for optimal growth already takes current temperature into account—so the one ideal value irrespective of temperature is around 0.85 kPa. Growers who come to grips with the concept of VPD can accurately measure and adjust their growing environment to stay within the recommended range and give themselves some considerable advantages both in terms of maximizing growth and the ability to control some rather persistent nasties such as Botrytis (grey mold) disease.

Technically, VPD more accurately describes what the plant experiences in relation to the effects of temperature and humidity on growth and transpiration. It combines the effects of both humidity and temperature into one value, so it’s easier to use when setting environmental controls.
Why is humidity or VPD so important for plant growth?

"A dry environment with low humidity typically results in smaller, more compact leaves in tomato crops."

We know that light level and quality and CO2 affect photosynthesis and a number of other plant processes, and that temperature determines the levels of many biological processes within plant cells, but the effects of humidity are a little more indirect. VPD directly affects the rate of transpiration within the plant. Transpiration not only cools the plant, but the transpiration stream from root to leaf surface carries essential minerals up the plant to where they are needed for tissue development. Leaves exposed to the sun or overhead lamps would soon become dangerously hot if they were not cooled by water evaporating from the leaf surface—the process actually works in a similar way to sweat. This evaporated water needs to be replaced from the transpiration stream, which moves in the xylem vessels of the plant. If the water flow from roots to shoots in the xylem vessels is not fast enough, the plant will start to wilt and tissue damage will occur. The plant will shut its stomata in an attempt to retain turgor pressure and prevent wilting if too much water is being lost via transpiration. When the stomata shut to prevent water loss, photosynthesis cannot occur as CO2 can’t be taken in from the surrounding air, so plant growth and yield will be slowed if this occurs too often. Low humidity (high VPD) can cause large volumes of water from the transpiration stream to be lost to the air and force the plant to shut down its stomata to prevent desiccation, and this ultimately reduces growth and yields.

High humidity (low VPD), on the other hand, creates a different problem. When the air already contains a lot of water vapor and may even be close to saturation, it cannot absorb much more water from the plant surface and transpiration slows or even stops. If high humidity conditions exist at the same time as high temperatures, the plant has a major problem as it can’t evaporate enough water from its foliage to cool its tissue and overheating will then occur. Cell damage, wilting and reduced growth will result where hot plants can’t effectively cool themselves via transpiration due to high relative humidity, and in these cases some humidity control is essential.

The transpiration stream moving through the xylem vessels from roots to shoots driven by VPD and humidity is essential for plant functioning. Not only does the water carried in the transpiration stream maintain plant turgor and support, it also carries with it mineral elements and other compounds taken up by the roots. So without a good rate of transpiration drawing the flow of water and minerals up through the xylem tissues from the roots, plant foliage can’t obtain sufficient levels of nutrients for growth and development. One of the most important aspects of transpiration is the flow of calcium. If transpiration is restricted in any way, the lack of calcium flow out to the leaf tips and new cells in developing fruits will cause problems such as tip burn and blossom end rot, which are conditions common under warm and humid growing conditions.
How RH and VPD influence disease outbreaks

There are a wide range of fungal and bacterial diseases that will attack even healthy plants under high humidity (low VPD) conditions, because fungal spores in particular are carried on air currents and so tend to be around much of the time just waiting for the right conditions to launch an attack. Spores themselves need to absorb water from the environment to germinate and get inside plant tissue, and having free water available such as that from condensation on plant surfaces is perfect for fungal diseases to develop. However, not all fungal disease spores need water on the plant surface, and many will attack when the air humidity is high. For this reason the safe maximum humidity value is often considered to be around 85 per cent at 77o F, or in other words a VPD value of more than 0.35 kPa is recommended at all times in order to prevent fungal diseases, which are common under humid conditions. While many of the commonly encountered plant diseases such as Botrytis (grey mold) thrive under humid conditions, and a good degree of control can be achieved by running optimal RH or VPD levels, there is always an exception. Powdery mildew species have spores that contain a lot of water themselves, so they don’t need high humidity or water for germination, and they can also obtain all the water they need for growth from the leaves that they infect. This means that powdery mildew can develop at humidity levels as low as 30 per cent and that its appearance is not necessarily a sign that humidity has been running high.
How to control RH and VPD

Low humidity (high VPD) is fairly easy to adjust upwards to high RH, as putting water vapor back into the air can be easily achieved with some light fogging, misting or damping down in the growing area. An open pan of water should provide enough evaporation to increase the humidity if you’re only dealing with a small area. Evaporative coolers also tend to increase the humidity of the air fairly effectively under warm growing conditions. However, having high humidity is a more common problem, as large surface areas of foliage tend to lose surprising volumes of water through transpiration and this adds to the humidity of the surrounding air. This humid air, referred to as the boundary layer, needs to be removed from directly around the foliage or further transpiration could be restricted. The best way of doing this is with a continual stream of drier fresh air, which not only lowers the humidity directly surrounding the leaf surface but also replenishes CO2 for photosynthesis. The amount of airflow required to continually remove excess water vapor and bring in sufficient CO2 is higher than many growers realize—there should be sufficient airflow to keep the leaves gently moving most of the time. The warmer it is and the faster the plants are growing, the more the air needs to be shifted over the leaf surface for these processes to occur at optimal rates. For very humid climates, sometimes the only option is a dehumidifier. If the outside air being brought in to cool and dehumidify an indoor garden is naturally very humid it can’t absorb much more moisture from transpiration, and using a dehumidifier is often useful for smaller areas under these conditions.

Checking humidity or monitoring vapor pressure deficit in the growing area is just as important as maintaining temperature, light and nutrition levels when it comes to optimizing plant growth and yields. Having some understanding of the relationship between RH and temperature and VPD and how to influence and optimize these factors is an essential tool for the serious grower, and also for those gardeners who just want to prevent annoying outbreaks of fungal disease."
 
T

treehugger

154
18
These are the kind of things they need to teach people who aren't experienced greenthumbs. Even then, it is more a natural feel then an exact science. Non-empaths need not apply...
 
lambrettats1

lambrettats1

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thanks for posting this all grow info is good onfo imho TS1
 
U

UCtestn

431
0
VPD... a lesson I learned from Shady. I'm the only one in my group of friends that even cares... I'm happy I do. :-)

Thanks for posting. It was great relearning it.
 
L

Lost

2,969
38
They also had a similar article in the summer of 2010. Great info.
 
Nobodynobody

Nobodynobody

259
18
Own this MAGz. Their is a lack of tools and tester for VPD. Sure if a shop carry tools like that, Every one would ask the shop what RH% vs VPD.

I personally like to see some controller that i can hook up my NutraMist Fogger units too.

Your eyes and holding your girls fingers are the Best way to check things.
 
M

Mr.Newcastle

77
0
Thank you for posting this. Very helpful, indeed. Have you yourself applied this, and if so, would you care to tell what your numbers in your garden are and what did you do to put your numbers where they are?. Thanks, Peace.
 
Electro

Electro

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6
Great info there for sure. So now the next logical question is how to measure VPD? I did a semi brief google search and don't see any VPD Meters for sale. One company makes a "indoor grow controller" with VPD measurement, but we're talking 1000's of $$$
 
jimmyhoffa59

jimmyhoffa59

341
28
This humidifier:http://i111.invalid.com/albums/n145/jimmyhoffa59/UC%20Take%202/herrmidifier7071.jpg
This Controller: http://i111.invalid.com/albums/n145/jimmyhoffa59/UC%20Take%202/702605.jpg

Im going to set my humidity around 60% at first with my temps around 77 which is low by this articles chart.. then slowly move it up to around 80 degrees temp and 67-70% humidity to finish my veg.. then in flower I will drop it down to 45-50% RH and same temps. Low to mid 80's. See what happens. As the article outlines with the RH too low like mine (Sub 30% RH) what can happen is the stoma or whatever they talking about in the plant.. closes and stops the uptake of nutrients and stops transpiration within the plants. So see what happens.
 
B

budseyeveiw

257
18
im not sure that humidity will affect the stomata that much considering that you keep watering. and plus i thought that resin production was a result of the plant trying to retain water in a dry enviroment?
 
jimmyhoffa59

jimmyhoffa59

341
28
im not sure that humidity will affect the stomata that much considering that you keep watering. and plus i thought that resin production was a result of the plant trying to retain water in a dry enviroment?

Interesting theory.. I have no idea honestly.. I just know humidity plays an incredible role in proper plant growth, output and production so hopefully some of the big wigs will chime in on their experience using this humidity guide and resin production.. I would have to say it is FAR more relative to the strain then ANY other factor honestly.
 
Electro

Electro

36
6
Only ready made VPD related controller/meter i've found so far is this one, sells for around $2000+:

iClimate.jpg


Intelliclimate Controller Website
 
G

Gartner

97
0
The humidity chart for marijuana

Thanks for valuable information, Relative humidity which i have never considered, yes this makes the difference, as its proportional to the temperature right. but is it possible to control the relative humidity level..
also how this controls the disease....
thanks..:harvest:
 
M

Mr.Newcastle

77
0
Thank you. Many articles I have read tell me that optimal humidity control for your strain is not to be overlooked. And I am sure CEA growers who once did intake/outake will also tell us that. Intake/outake is all I will do for many reasons, not wanting to do CEA is not one of them. Would be nice to find a intake outake farmer with the outake going through a scrubber talk of VPD in their room. This could be a stupid question, but a climate contoller is better suited for a CEA room and not a intake/outake. The prices of those controllers have always kept my interest in them none. I like dropping the Co2 tank style with the Co2 measuring syringe. Some things of the old school you stay loyal to, that and when the climate outside you is breathing some of the best air in the world,I have to let it in. That being said, everytime I'm satisfied with my garden, a hard lesson comes. Thanks JimmyHoffa again for VPDing me. That and finding info on the optimal CFM's of an intake/outake system in a 3rd graders way of teaching it is what this unsatisfied farmer is tackling next. Peace.
 
jimmyhoffa59

jimmyhoffa59

341
28
The article has a relatively simple math equation.. I was terrible with math in school and college but I think I can still punch it in.. I would not bother trying to get to a certain "figure" per say.. just my point of the article is people are consistently trying to drop their humidity as low as humanly possible I noticed in a lot of grows.. The chart in the link for the actual article gives some reference temps and RH% numbers to try and hit max and mins on.. I say quit over complicating things can just raise your humidity up over 60% for 99% of the grows on here and roll with it around 45-50 during flower and most should be good.. but what do I know. Its what I am going to try.. of course all strains are different and some might not give a shit wet or dry.. were just talking for optimum growth searchers on here.. something to TRY is all.
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

Living dead girl
23,596
638
Great info there for sure. So now the next logical question is how to measure VPD? I did a semi brief google search and don't see any VPD Meters for sale. One company makes a "indoor grow controller" with VPD measurement, but we're talking 1000's of $$$
I don't think you need a meter other than anything that can measure RH in the air and temperature. It is between those two values that VPD is calculated. I see you've found Autogrow's site.

This article in MY, as it's reprinted at least, is confusing to me upon perusal.
I found this to be simpler and easier to read, as well as overall more informative. They also have a calculator on their site, you just plug in the numbers.
http://www.autogrow.com/vpd_calc.php

The tables didn't copy properly, so go here to see the VPD tables:
http://www.autogrow.com/1_information/1_vpd/info_vpd.html
Autogrow Systems said:
Humidity and Vapour Pressure Deficit (VPD)
For years Relative Humidity (RH) has been used as a measure of how much water vapour is present in the air and is probably still the preferred method used by experienced growers. In a greenhouse, the amount of water vapour present has a direct effect on a plants ability to transpire and hence grow.

Another measure called vapour pressure deficit (VPD) is also used to indicate humidity and is felt to be more directly related to a plants wellbeing. VPD combines the effects of both humidity AND temperature into one value and so gives a good indication of plant wellbeing without the need for the grower to do any mental arithmetic. VPD values run in the opposite way to RH values so when RH is high VPD is low.

If humidity is too low (i.e. high VPD), the stomata on the leaves tend to close in order to limit transpiration and prevent wilting. This closing of the stomata will also limit the rate of CO2 uptake and hence limit photosynthesis and consequently plant growth. Low humidity also reduces turgidity (water pressure within the plant cells) and this in turn also restricts growth. Blossom end rot in tomatoes and capsicum can also be attributed to low humidity (high VPD).

Conversely, if humidity is too high (i.e. low VPD) the stomata will fully open but even so the plants will be unable to evaporate enough water to carry minerals into the plant and so again, growth will be impeded and mineral deficiencies (particularly calcium) may occur. In addition, the plants may exhibit soft growth, fungal problems and mineral deficiency symptoms.

It is frequently stated that VPD more closely matches what the plant "feels" in relation to temperature and humidity and therefore forms a better basis for environment control. Unfortunately, VPD is extremely difficult to determine accurately as it is necessary to know the leaf tissue temperature. Attempts to measure leaf temperature reliably on an ongoing basis have often ended in disaster. One of the problems is that the plants leaves are in differing amounts of sun with some leaves in full sun, some in partial sun and others in full shade. This makes the concept of "leaf tissue temperature" particularly complex.

By measuring the temperature and relative humidity within the crop canopy the calculated VPD is still a useful measure as it combines both temperature and humidity into a single measure in a way that approximates the well-being of the crop. As an example, for many crops it is suggested that RH should be kept between the following limits at the stated temperatures:-

BAD TABLE--CANNOT DISPLAY

You can see from the table that the higher the temperature is the more humidity is required by the plants. The above makes it difficult to specify control parameters as different RH settings are required at different temperatures.

BAD TABLE--CANNOT DISPLAY

AutoVent 2 and 3 environment controllers estimate the VPD based on the air temperature and humidity in the crop canopy. It will only be close to the true figure for a healthy transpiring crop. The VPD calculator below allows the VPD to be estimated based on both air and leaf temperatures. This clearly shows the possible error in VPD due to just a 1 deg C difference between air and leaf temperature.

As a general rule, most plants grow well at VPDs of between 0.8 to 0.95 KPa​
Fogging or other humdification is usually applied at VPDs above 1.25KPa and heating and dehumidification at VPDs below 0.45KPa
The bolded paragraphs are the salient points. The author of the MY article appears to have directly quoted Wikipedia (great writing technique, sheesh) without going much further into it. I found Autogrow's site easier to understand.
 
B

budseyeveiw

257
18
i guess humidty is relative to different plant species too..
 
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