Foundation (core) Ingredients For Organic Soil

[Perception]

I've been doing lots of research in to building my first batch of living soil, and I wanted to start a conversation about what people believe the base materials should be. Not including amendments. It seems like most people post recipes that have 10 ingredients or more, and I'm sure that a lot of these are necessary, but if you could only pick 3 or 4 ingredients to start your soil, what would it be? I'm looking for the "core" of what starts a living soil food web mixture. Like... if you were just making some potting soil for house plants, where would you start?

I'm trying to figure out what is needed for basic nutrients, soil texture, water retention, and oxygen. I watched a video by Minnesota Nice, and his recipe sounded simple and practical. The core components are:

-> 1 part peat moss
-> 1 part compost of any sort (ideally EW castings)
-> 1 part lava rock & rice hulls (50/50)

He then amends with 1/2 cup per cubic foot of:
-> 1 part kelp meal
-> 1 part alfalfa meal
-> 1 part rock dust (azomite)

What are you using to start your mix?

 

[Seamaiden]

I think you should read this article (assuming you haven't already!). If I go with rock dust I like volcanic the best, seems to provide the most variety.

 

[Perception]

Great article. In summary, here are the four bases that they talk about in the article:

1. Soil Energy: "Calcium nitrate, potassium nitrate, urea, ammonium sulfate, potassium sulfate, MAP, super phosphate, liquid fertilizers, and sea solids. For organics nothing beat high nitrogen fish and Chilean nitrate. Manures and compost will supply some soil energy as well"
   
   
2. Foundational Minerals: "Foundational minerals refer primarily to adequate available calcium and phosphorous. If the levels are insufficient then they must be supplied in the form of insoluble rock powders. These powders require both soil energy and soil biology to break down into an available form."
   
   
3. Humus & Biology: "Products used to increase humus in soil include: cover crops, green manures, compost, fresh or aged manures, dry humates and many more. Products used to stimulate soil biology include: microbial inoculants, liquid humates, compost tea, molasses, sugar, bio stimulants, enzymes, and many other proprietary products."
   
   
4. Trace Elements: "These include the more commonly recognized elements such as boron, copper, iron, manganese, and zinc and the rarer elements such as chromium, molybdenum, nickel, iodine, vanadium, lithium, selenium, cobalt and many others. Products used to supply these minerals include the sulfates and chelates of the more common elements, seaweed, sea minerals, and various rock powders for broad spectrum trace elements."
   

So lets see if the recipe I posted above has what I need:

• Soil Energy: ?
• Foundational Materials: Azomite, Kelp Meal
• Humus & Biology: EW castings, Peat Moss, Alfalfa meal (biology)
• Trace Elements: Azomite, kelp meal

I'm not sure about Soil Energy though. Anyone have thoughts? I'm not quite sure what high nitrogen fish and chilean nitrates are.

 

[Perception]

Found this thread on Rollitup.com, it's a ROLS No-Till sticky thread. Lots of good info. :

Also did some searching on YouTube, looking at gardeners making homemade potting mixes. Looks like everyone is starting with a base mixture similar to what I posted above.

- 1 part humus/compost
- 1 part Peat or Coir
- 1 part water retention/aeration substrate (lava rock, perlite, etc.)

Now I just need to start figuring out what amendments I want to use! Then on to AACT's to get things started.

 

[Homesteader]

Here is my recipe, and you are more than welcome to hack it anyway you like but this works for me in terms of hands off growing.
Your base is coir, peat, EWC, Rice hull

Foundation minerals
gypsum, rock Phos, humates,DE, Bone Char, lime

Trace
Kelp, Sea90


17 gallons botanicare coir (1 hydrated block) $10
2.5 gallons EWC $10
5 gallons peat $3
5 gallons rice hulls $5
4 cups gypsum $4
4 cups rock phosphate $3
4 cups menefee humates $2
3 cups crab meal $2
3 cups kelp meal $2
2 cups sea-90 $1
1 ½ cup soybean meal $1
1 ½ cup bone char $1
1 ½ cups dolomitic lime $1
2.5 lbs zeolites # $2
2 cups food grade Diatomaceous Earth $2



Fedco Organic Supply is a great source for amendments unless you can find them closer.

 

[Paul Simon]

The soil base is a real challange. Peat bogs get destroy when the Peat is removed, so while it may be organic, it is bad for the planet. The main alternative is cococoir, very renewable, but it comes from places far away from most of us growers, mke the fuel impact very significant. If you want to be max organic, build your soil from a base of leaf mold from localy sources leafs.

Also, unless you personally know what the animals are being fed, I wouldn't use any animal byproducts in my soil. Most of those poor creatures are pumped so full of antibiotics and growth hormones it is almost gauranteed to get into your smoke.

 

[Perception]

Thanks everyone! I agree about the Peat Moss - I'll try to use CocoCoir, or an alternative if I can find something that holds water well. Seems like leaf mold would just amount to another compost though, right? I'd like to find something that has good water retention also. I mixed up a 5 gal smart pot with the following:

All organically labeled products
1.5gal - Peat/CocoCoir
1.5gal - EW Castings
1.5gal - LavaRock/Rice Hulls

1/3cup - Crab Meal
1/3 cup - Kelp Meal
1/2 cup - Alfalfa Meal
1/2 cup - Azomite
1/2 cup - Rock Phosphate

-> Seeded with Dutch White Clover covered in mycorhizzea starter. Letting sit in the outdoor garden for 6 weeks before adding plants.

The amendment measurements were all just the lower end of the recommended measurements listed on the boxes. I'll be adding an AACT too, as well as earth worms once I get my vermicomposting going.

No cannabis plants in soil yet, but I've noticed that the soil holds water 2x longer than my pots with just FFOF or HappyFrog potting soil. We up-potted about a dozen house plants with this soil too, and the house plants are LOVING it. One plant went to bloom within a week, and we had never seen it bloom before.

 

[Homesteader]

Here is the soil test on the above mix if you are interested in checking it out. Keep in mind this was tested right after being mixed. Will test again a few times.

 

[Homesteader]

zeolites hold water well and offset the coir dry out somewhat.

 

[Seamaiden]

Here is the soil test on the above mix if you are interested in checking it out. Keep in mind this was tested right after being mixed. Will test again a few times.

I'd love to see @Blaze 's take on this, but I'd be willing to bet that your 'too high' levels of OM are perfect for cannabis. It looks like a pretty good mix based on the graphs/numbers, but I'm definitely no expert in this arena.

 

[Homesteader]

Many of the numbers are not available to the plant at the time (ie. Rock Phosphate) and will need to be broken down but it is a start. Would love anyone and everyone's take. I also think the numbers will be better understood after the grow is complete and I am able to see what the numbers are afterwards and how much has changed.

 

[Perception]

Do you plan to water with AACT?

 

[Homesteader]

I foliar feed with kelp and fulvic in veg
media feed with molasses, fish, fulvic and kelp in veg

foliar water in flower
media feed molasses, fulvic and some kelp.

https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/landrace-grow-in-sealed-room-co2-with-led.83317/

 

[Blaze]

It is *really* difficult to overdo the SOM in soil mixes for cannabis. When I say SOM I mean soluble organic matter, which is the plant and animal residues decomposing in the soil and the humic content of the soil. For example if your mix is 50% compost, that does not mean it is 50% SOM - the compost is just organic matter, not SOM.

Most soils contain 1%-6% SOM, which is very low for cannabis. My outdoor raised beds usually test around 20%, which is actually rather low, and I add amendments every year to boost it. Potting mixes like Black Gold are often up around 30%-40%. I bought a truck transfer of soil from a local company this year to fill some smart pots which tested at 60% SOM. The plants we grew in it exploded and grew very fast and I will be ordering another transfer of it this week fpr my new greenhouse actually. So 50% SOM like that soil test that was posted showed is great in my opinion, the plants should love it.

As for core ingredients I like different sizes of lava rock for structure as well as rice hulls. Don't overlook soil structure and the physical properties, they are critical! Bio char is also a great amendment if you are planning on reusing the soil as it has a ton of benefits and takes hundreds if not thousands of years to break down so you only have to add it once. Good compost is also very important, and one of our major components in all mixes is composted dairy cow manure. The dairy cow manure is very mellow and is a great way to increase your SOM without throwing your soil out of balance. Having compost from both plant and animal sources helps create balanced healthy soil - don't go vegan with your soil, there is no point and it will *not* produce better results!

Amendments I don't like - perlite, peat moss, and I don't use coco except for potting mixes. Perlite tends to float to the surface and adds nothing to the soil - unlike rice hulls and rocks. Peat moss is not sustainable and has no advantage over other alternatives in my opinion. Coco can also separate over time so I don't use it in soil mixes that will be reused.

Worm castings are great but a waste of money to use as the bulk of your soil mix. All the micronutrients and SOM they contain can be provided by other amendments for a fraction of the cost. The biggest benefits with worm castings is the soil biology - not the actual nutrient content, which is quite low. My preference is to scratch it into the soil surface after planting, using it to dust my roots balls when I transplant along with some Mykos, and making aerated compost tea with it. This way you get all the benefits of the castings, while using a much smaller amount.

 

[Homesteader]

Love the input blaze. Keep it coming when I get the next test.
The Menafee humates that I use has a peastone gravel like structure and I reuse the soil for row crops afterwards so I am sure the SOM for my other crops will adjust down to about 20% if I am lucky.
I don't seem to have the qualms about peat as others do. While it is not sustainable, it also is not being wasted like hydrocarbons and tends to help build soils worldwide......but I know its definitely not a floatable argument that can be won. I wonder if bamboo can be made into a grow media?

 

[Homesteader]

@Blaze - What is your take on the CEC from this test? Is 37.3 low or high? The (A) threw me a little off as well. Would sand increase this number?

 

[Paul Simon]

@Blaze what would you recommend as the base substrate for building a soil for no-till indoor gardening?

 

[Purpletrain]

It is *really* difficult to overdo the SOM in soil mixes for cannabis. When I say SOM I mean soluble organic matter, which is the plant and animal residues decomposing in the soil and the humic content of the soil. For example if your mix is 50% compost, that does not mean it is 50% SOM - the compost is just organic matter, not SOM.

Most soils contain 1%-6% SOM, which is very low for cannabis. My outdoor raised beds usually test around 20%, which is actually rather low, and I add amendments every year to boost it. Potting mixes like Black Gold are often up around 30%-40%. I bought a truck transfer of soil from a local company this year to fill some smart pots which tested at 60% SOM. The plants we grew in it exploded and grew very fast and I will be ordering another transfer of it this week fpr my new greenhouse actually. So 50% SOM like that soil test that was posted showed is great in my opinion, the plants should love it.

As for core ingredients I like different sizes of lava rock for structure as well as rice hulls. Don't overlook soil structure and the physical properties, they are critical! Bio char is also a great amendment if you are planning on reusing the soil as it has a ton of benefits and takes hundreds if not thousands of years to break down so you only have to add it once. Good compost is also very important, and one of our major components in all mixes is composted dairy cow manure. The dairy cow manure is very mellow and is a great way to increase your SOM without throwing your soil out of balance. Having compost from both plant and animal sources helps create balanced healthy soil - don't go vegan with your soil, there is no point and it will *not* produce better results!

Amendments I don't like - perlite, peat moss, and I don't use coco except for potting mixes. Perlite tends to float to the surface and adds nothing to the soil - unlike rice hulls and rocks. Peat moss is not sustainable and has no advantage over other alternatives in my opinion. Coco can also separate over time so I don't use it in soil mixes that will be reused.

Worm castings are great but a waste of money to use as the bulk of your soil mix. All the micronutrients and SOM they contain can be provided by other amendments for a fraction of the cost. The biggest benefits with worm castings is the soil biology - not the actual nutrient content, which is quite low. My preference is to scratch it into the soil surface after planting, using it to dust my roots balls when I transplant along with some Mykos, and making aerated compost tea with it. This way you get all the benefits of the castings, while using a much smaller amount.

I beg to differ about your do not go vegan??? have been going vegan for over 50 years or adding only vegan to composts Guess what NPK is NPK
Carbon cycle is just that makes no difference horse shit or greens
Carbon cycling is the continuous transformation of organic and inorganic carbon compounds by plants and micro- and macro-organisms between the soil, plants and the atmosphere
Decomposition of organic matter is largely a biological process that occurs naturally. Its speed is determined by three major factors: soil organisms, the physical environment and the quality of the organic matter
This process is called humification. Humus affects soil properties. As it slowly decomposes, it colors the soil darker; increases soil aggregation and aggregate stability; increases the CEC (the ability to attract and retain nutrients); and contributes N, P and other nutrients.
99 percent of the stuff people put in there organic soil , is never needed

People have to get away from the i need to add all these things First off ?? get your soil tested which many people are to dam cheap to get done but rather spend 100's of dollars blindly adding the next biggest thing we here on forums .
Its rather amusing really
But truth is People are stupid they rather make things more difficult for them selfs
KISS Keep it simple plan a year ahead start a simple compost bin shit get creative make a compost tumbler, Start a worm bin shit i purchased 2 pounds of live worms and within 6 months i had thousands upon thousands of worms i would bet 200 pounds of worms its crazy how they multiply in the right environment..
Just saying right
Think about it people are blindly adding all this amendments Yet there plants never make it the end of the season ??? and why Teas are made sure there feeding micro and macro but don't forget that tea is also feeding the plants .. just as much as the organisms .
If there is no organic matter left in soil then whats the micro life really doing other then dieing off
Again ask your self why is that Seriously
All i have ever done was collect all my greens egg shells , coffee grinds , greens . grass clippings and also plant clippings
I purchase a yard of top soil sterilize it to rid any seed and unwanted bacteria Yearly
i then add a layer of top soil then i start the process of throwing scraps and what have you , i then charge the compost bin with a one time tea application from there its nature at its finest slowly adding top soil and greens stirring weekly within 2 weeks i add my worms then look the hell out.
By fall its done and ready for next seasons plants and trust me 7 months later with only rain water the plants are still lush green
I do not think any recipe is better then that ,, Cause it was litterally FREE

 

[Blaze]

@Blaze - What is your take on the CEC from this test? Is 37.3 low or high? The (A) threw me a little off as well. Would sand increase this number?

Not exactly sure what they means by the (A) but 37.3 is high, which is great. I've usually seen ranges from 20-70 on by tests, and just like the SOM, the higher CEC mixes grow better plants. Sand will not increase the CEC value. High SOM correlates with high CEC. Clay soil particles also add to your CEC value.

@Blaze what would you recommend as the base substrate for building a soil for no-till indoor gardening?

I have never tried no till indoors, just with outdoor and greenhouse/light dep. I would use a good quality potting soil as my base if I were to try it though. Black Gold has always been my main stand by, it was the original base for my no-till light dep this year. Ive always used a good but mellow soil or potting mix as my base and then amended it accordingly.

 

[Blaze]

I found the vegan!

Guess what NPK is NPK

Well I guess I better ditch the compost, manure and teas and just pour on the Gro More from now on if that is the case. The source and form of your NPK makes a huge difference for your soil and for your plants. So no, NPK is absolutely not all the same, that is an absurd statement.

Animal by products have always played an extremely important part in agriculture since it was first invented and continue to play an extremely important part in organic farming. Furthermore, natural ecosystems also rely on animal by products, and our native soils would not exist as they do without said animals. Vegan soils do not exist in nature, and you would be hard pressed to find a successful vegan farm in the agriculture world. You only see it with cannabis and with hobby growers and there is a reason for that.

People have to get away from the i need to add all these things First off ?? get your soil tested which many people are to dam cheap to get done but rather spend 100's of dollars blindly adding the next biggest thing we here on forums .

We have soil tests going back years and for multiple soil types at multiple sites. We get a soil test before every crop, and if there are questions or concerns, we get recommendations from the lab as well. I have never once heard of a soil testing lab recommend switching to a vegan system. Their recommendations for boosting our SOM wasn't green compost - in fact we had been adding TOO much as it turned out. Their recommendation was dairy cow manure, which has worked great over the years as we have seen. It is almost impossible to add enough green waste compost to get your CEC and SOM to where you ideally want it without throwing your soil out of balance.

Yes, you can grow plants with a vegan system, there is no doubt about that. They might even be reasonably healthy, but they certainly will never reach their full potential. There are simply not good vegan alternatives to certain organic animal based amendments such as manures, bone meal, feather meal, etc.

If there is no organic matter left in soil then whats the micro life really doing other then dieing off
Again ask your self why is that Seriously
All i have ever done was collect all my greens egg shells , coffee grinds , greens . grass clippings and also plant clippings
I purchase a yard of top soil sterilize it to rid any seed and unwanted bacteria Yearly
i then add a layer of top soil then i start the process of throwing scraps and what have you , i then charge the compost bin with a one time tea application from there its nature at its finest slowly adding top soil and greens stirring weekly within 2 weeks i add my worms then look the hell out.
By fall its done and ready for next seasons plants and trust me 7 months later with only rain water the plants are still lush green
I do not think any recipe is better then that ,, Cause it was litterally FREE

If that works for you, then awesome. If you are doing it because you feel strongly about being a vegan, then great. However the method you describe is largely impractical for anything beyond a small personal grow. We have to supply meds for an every growing number of patients, so economics and scale must be taken into account, as with all farms. I can (sort of) understand the moral reasons for a vegan agriculture system, but from the standpoint of soil health, plant health, efficiency and production, I stand by what I said - there is no point. Healthy organic farming systems and soils greatly benefit from animal by-products, they always have, and they always will.