Giddeon's 8k Watt 4 Plant MPB

[Giddeon]

I am finally making the switch to MPB's, I have done my beginning research and I finally feel that I some what have a grasp of whats going on but definitely am going to need help along the way. I have a space 11' x 12' I will be doing 4 plants starting with 5k Watts until week 4 of flower when I will Double stack the lights with 600 Watters bumping it up to 8k Watts in lighting. I will not be using cool tubes but Have blowers on the floor pointed up at my lights to help cool hot spots
Arrangement: X: Lights O: MPB
X O X
O X O
X O X

I will be running Co2 (ng burner) and a sealed room with a 5 ton AC.

I happen to have most of the components to the system from past grows and will only need to buy a few more parts to complete the system. I will be using everything in the DD's shopping list as far as the buckets go, on pumps I will be using a 1800 GPH pump for the the feed line to the 4 buckets a 1200 GPH for drip lines and another 1200 GPH for my 1/2 HP chiller.

My air pump is a High Blow 100 and i will have a 12" round airstone in each bucket thinking about maybe 2 airstones per bucket I am pretty sure my air pump can handle it if a HB80 can be used in 10 different units (give me your opinion)

I have just completed sealing my room and am ordering components for the MBP over the next week as parts come in I will continue to post, Hoping some of you experienced MPBers will chime in and help me out with this along the way.


~G

 

[sedate]

X O X
O X O
X O X

It kinda seems to me that

OXO
XOX
OXO

would yield more.

I think Lost or dizzle had some interesting thoughts here.

My air pump is a High Blow 100 and i will have a 12" round airstone in each bucket thinking about maybe 2 airstones per bucket I am pretty sure my air pump can handle it if a HB80 can be used in 10 different units (give me your opinion)

Um. An HB80 could be used in 20 units.

I have a feeling that your HB100 is going to blast the lids straight off the tubs.

I've actually heard of problems with roots and pumps that freaking big.

I will Double stack the lights with 600 Watters bumping it up to 8k Watts in lighting

If you're going to do all that - and your budget is as high as your equipment implies - why not just go with some 1500w HPS horti's and be done?

Double-stacked bulbs? 600 ontop of a 1000? That sounds too complicated and too much of a heat-print to me.

 

[600gph]

Did you already buy the 5 ton...Thats like 7500 btu per 1k of lighting...

You do not want the a/c to be shortcycling all the time..

Just a thought ...Good luck

mc

 

[Giddeon]

SEDATE, I have looked around a bit and have found a few people doing the 4 light 5 plant set up I guess if I double stack 1k's thats still 8k watts but now on 5 plants and there is still 12 sides of plants getting light ((1 getting 4 sides) + (4 getting 2 sides)= 12 sides of light) I definitely like this suggestion and glad I checked again before ordering bins!

As far as the 1500 watters go I would have to purchase all the new ballasts and bulbs for that set up, going with 1k's and some 6's I already have it all (just need a few new bulbs to cycle in). And if my calculations are correct the 5 ton AC (60k btu) should cover my cooling needs up to 8k Watts (4000*8=32,000) and an in room Co2 Burner, its a Green Air NG-36 burner and only runs for about 2 min to fill my room to 1500ppm I haven't ran a sealed room before so I'm not sure how long it will stay off for. If any one sees my Calculations are wrong please inform me.

Now a Question: What Kind of problems arise when using a large air pump I have used this pump with a 6 plant set up (Different buckets) with no problems, but now with only 4 plants in my room there is no room for error on my part so I do not want to set up something that has been know to fail for others using these buckets.

Thanks for the Help
~G

 

[billybadazz]

I seem to recall easypleasy with some root problems because of too much air and it disrupted his roots, maybe skim through his page and read what he said about it, but sedate is right that's a huge fucking pump, a hiblo 40 is sufficient I think.

 

[BOSSMAN88188]

sub'd.
You look to be off to a good start.
Why not put those 600"s in the corner's.
More plants with 4 sides of lite = more yield.
Just my .02

 

[sedate]

I seem to recall easypleasy with some root problems because of too much air and it disrupted his roots

I can't remember the poster but it was someone with cred.

What Kind of problems arise when using a large air pump I have used this pump with a 6 plant set up (Different buckets) with no problems, but now with only 4 plants in my room there is no room for error on my part so I do not want to set up something that has been know to fail for others using these buckets

At a certain point, you've already totally saturated the water with oxygen and you're just forcing so much air through the water that instead of gently moving the water around the roots - you end up damaging the roots with the violent water movement.

I've seen a few people - not alot but a few peepz with cred - report better results when they turned their pumps *down* in some cases.

Think wind-stress from fans that are too close the leaves - but you know, in the tank.

Anyway - that pump is something like 4x more powerful that the biggest pump Hydrofarm makes - so you'll need to turn it down - I assume that fancy pump has a potentiometer?

Go for something just under "rolling boil" - IMO.

If you see 'waves' or 'chop' in the buckets from the air - that tells you *alot* of energy is being disappated in that water.

 

[sedate]

Why not put those 600"s in the corner's.
More plants with 4 sides of lite = more yield.
Just my .02

Oh yea I forgot getting off into pumps like that.

Um - yea I was thinking that when he said he already had the equipment too. Coverage is as important as intensity.

Agreed. +1 there Bossman.

And if my calculations are correct the 5 ton AC (60k btu) should cover my cooling needs up to 8k Watts (4000*8=32,000) and an in room Co2 Burner, its a Green Air NG-36 burner and only runs for about 2 min to fill my room to 1500ppm I haven't ran a sealed room before so I'm not sure how long it will stay off for. If any one sees my Calculations are wrong please inform me.

Um - 1000w in an electrical rating somewhere doesn't put out 4000 BTU's of heat.

But eitherway that a/c will more than take care of that grow. Maybe 3 and 1/2 times over or so.

 

[Giddeon]

BOSSMAN thanks for stopping in,
If I understand correctly are you suggesting that I go with a set up something like this?
x:600 X:1k O: mpb

5 MPB set up
x-----------x
-O---X---O-
-X---O---X-
-O---X---O-
x-----------x

or 4 MPB set up

-------x-----
---X---O---X-
x-O---X---O-x
---X---O---X-
-------x-----

if i do my math correctly Either set up has the plants getting light from 16 sides but the first set up has one more plant and 1k less watts I could even bump it up to 1ks in the corners on the 5 plant and be at 8K like planned

 

[Giddeon]

Billy and Sedate,
I dont want rot thats for sure and I hate wind burned leaves, so couldn't imagine that happening to my roots could I vent a bit of the air else where maybe aerate the main reservoir as well as my buckets?

as always thanks for the help
~G



Ill post some build pics in a day or so I cant find my cord.

 

[Papa]

i believe dds has always recommended the 4 MPB/5 lite arrangement over the 5 MPB/4 lite arrangement.









Papa

 

[sedate]

I dont want rot

No they won't rot. I mean the water movement is so violent they won't grow properly or as fast.

You can't turn that fancy pump down a bit?

 

[Giddeon]

I have googled "60L basin" this is what I get:

the price for the res isnt bad however shipping costs are 250 to get 4 of them here..... is this site my only option for the correct 60L res used?

 

[Giddeon]

You can't turn that fancy pump down a bit?

I wish I checked it out isn't a HIBlo 100 it is a pondmaster AP-100 similar output but none of the fancy features of pumps like it though.

 

[mrdizzle]

I thought it was the same, 100L per minute of air it might be more. If its the same as a pondmaster I think its good for 5buckets

 

[Giddeon]

here is a Link to the air pump I own
http://www.water-garden-shop-relaxi...eration/pondmaster-air-pump-ap-100-detail.htm

Thinking maybe a pressure regulator inline after the pump, or would this ruin my air pump

 

[mrdizzle]

thats cool for 4 buckets, I use one for 6 buckets, get some micro pore diffusers, I switched over to them and they are beautiful

I would get thos bins too, I like the idea of less nutes in the buckest with a higher flow rate. I would have got them but I cant have 11 black boxes showing up to my house

In easy's journal there is a link to that same size buckets that are cheaper

 

[Giddeon]

Um - 1000w in an electrical rating somewhere doesn't put out 4000 BTU's of heat.

But eitherway that a/c will more than take care of that grow. Maybe 3 and 1/2 times over or so.

I got the 4000 BTU figure from Jack, and we all know what kind of room he cool, so I went with it, I also thought that oversizing an AC a bit isn't a bad thing. The 5 ton AC I felt was always a bit big for what I needed but I didn't want to fight a battle with my room trying to keep it cool when it gets to over 100 outside during the summer months. I am also going to beef up my insulation in my room as well to help that problem. Since your post I have went back and re-read a few threads and have noticed that 5 tons is definitely Huge for what I need and will consider different options as well. The smallest Unit that I would feel comfortable running at this time is the 3.5 ton:

I like this unit as well because there is no air exchange in the room and no other condenser unit to pipe in and run through walls (been there done that now I gotta fix some holes), just an intake and exhaust tubes for the sealed compressor unit.

Loving the Help my room is already on a better track than before,
~G

 

[Giddeon]

thats cool for 4 buckets, I use one for 6 buckets, get some micro pore diffusers, I switched over to them and they are beautiful

I have looked at them a few times and never picked any up do you recommend any of the micropore's or is the Boss hog what I want? Will these diffusers not churn the water as much and cause the roots to move too much because the bubbles are so small?

Thanks
~G

 

[mrdizzle]

I think easy had a problem because he was in a 5gal bucket with a serious air pump, so the bubbles werent able to drift to the side like in a 20-27gal tub, his bubbles just smashed straight up into the roots


the water still churns but the bubbles are extremely small